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[GMCnet] water heater [message #112088]

Sat, 15 January 2011 19:54

john arbuckle

Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010

Karma: 0

Senior Member

I am completely redoing the coach. I have recently just recived my new
hot water heater and I got me one of those pretty stainless steal ones
from Canada. New thermostat the whole bit. Wiring again. How would I
wire the thermostate to the elemant? I mean there is no marked
positive and negative on either element or thermostat. So which color
to what terminal I am lost. Two terminals on the thermostat and two on
the element. Thanks for any help;

John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
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Re: [GMCnet] water heater [message #112090 is a reply to message #112088]

Sat, 15 January 2011 20:18

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

John,

It would be helpful if you could provide the manufacturer and part numbers
of the thermostat and hot water heater. I Googled "pretty stainless steel
hot water heater from Canada" and several came up. ;-)

Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of john arbuckle
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 12:55 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] water heater

I am completely redoing the coach. I have recently just recived my new
hot water heater and I got me one of those pretty stainless steal ones
from Canada. New thermostat the whole bit. Wiring again. How would I
wire the thermostate to the elemant? I mean there is no marked
positive and negative on either element or thermostat. So which color
to what terminal I am lost. Two terminals on the thermostat and two on
the element. Thanks for any help;

John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] water heater [message #112095 is a reply to message #112090]

Sat, 15 January 2011 20:47

rwbmitiopt@comcast.net

Messages: 189
Registered: April 2005

Karma: 0

Senior Member

John/Rob
The SS tank is made by Jim DeChene (sp) in Alberta. Unless the heater element terminals are specifically marked "hot and/or neutral" its immaterial what wire goes to which terminal. The element is simply a resistor and will get hot no matter the connections.
Randall

Robert Mueller wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 18:18

John,

It would be helpful if you could provide the manufacturer and part numbers
of the thermostat and hot water heater. I Googled "pretty stainless steel
hot water heater from Canada" and several came up. Wink

Wink

Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of john arbuckle
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 12:55 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] water heater

I am completely redoing the coach. I have recently just recived my new
hot water heater and I got me one of those pretty stainless steal ones
from Canada. New thermostat the whole bit. Wiring again. How would I
wire the thermostate to the elemant? I mean there is no marked
positive and negative on either element or thermostat. So which color
to what terminal I am lost. Two terminals on the thermostat and two on
the element. Thanks for any help;

John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
_______________________________________________
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Randall Burns
Sammamish WA
75 EX GB

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Re: [GMCnet] water heater [message #112096 is a reply to message #112088]

Sat, 15 January 2011 20:52

Ken Burton

Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana

Karma: 10

Senior Member

There is no =,or - of either the heater element or the thermostat. This is 120 volt AC.

That said, the heating element should be wired with one of the terminals going direct to the neutral, which is usually the white wire, going back to the circuit breaker box.
The black wire coming for the circuit breaker is wired to one of the terminals on the thermostat.

That leaves two terminals open. One on the thermostat and one on the heater element. Wire these two together and you are finished.

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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Re: [GMCnet] water heater [message #112246 is a reply to message #112096]

Mon, 17 January 2011 14:39

john arbuckle

Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Ken,

Thank you for the info. The only thing is I have a white wire and a
black wire but I also have a copper non insulated bare wire. It looks
to me like a ground or something. Just connect it to the frame or
where else can I attach it? Thanks again

John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
Tucson AZ
On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> There is no =,or - of either the heater element or the thermostat. �This is 120 volt AC.
>
> That said, the heating element should be wired with one of the terminals going direct to the neutral, which is usually the white wire, going back to the circuit breaker box.
> The black wire coming for the circuit breaker is wired to one of the terminals on the thermostat.
>
> That leaves two terminals open. �One on the thermostat and one on the heater element. Wire these two together and you are finished.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Re: [GMCnet] water heater [message #112265 is a reply to message #112246]

Mon, 17 January 2011 18:20

Ken Burton

Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana

Karma: 10

Senior Member

The white wire should be neutral and attached to one of the heater element terminals.

The black wire should be hot and attached to one of the thermostat terminals.

The bare wire is a safety ground and should be attached to the metal tank or one of it's metal fittings some how. I'm not sure exactly where mine is attached. It has been a few years since I was working in there.

You will still need to add one additional wire (14 gauge) between the remaining terminal on the heater element and the remaining terminal on the thermostat.

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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Re: [GMCnet] water heater [message #112270 is a reply to message #112265]

Mon, 17 January 2011 19:10

Hardie Johnson

Messages: 483
Registered: January 2004
Location: Raleigh NC

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Ken Burton wrote on Mon, 17 January 2011 19:20

The white wire should be neutral and attached to one of the heater element terminals. The black wire should be hot and attached to one of the thermostat terminals. The bare wire is a safety ground and should be attached to the metal tank or one of it's metal fittings some how. I'm not sure exactly where mine is attached. It has been a few years since I was working in there.
You will still need to add one additional wire (14 gauge) between the remaining terminal on the heater element and the remaining terminal on the thermostat.

Help me out here, too, it seems I recall stern warnings to NOT ground 120 VAC electrical equipment to the vehicle chassis, but to bring the grounds back to the panel and bond to the ground bus in the box. That then connects to power line ground or some ground on the generator. I am not sure how this solves the problem if the equipment is physically grounded, though.
Something about avoiding getting shocked/killed getting out of the coach?
"I am not a circuit breaker"

Hardie Johnson "Crashj"
1973 26 foot Glacier, White Thing
Raleigh NC

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Re: [GMCnet] water heater [message #112275 is a reply to message #112265]

Mon, 17 January 2011 19:37

john arbuckle

Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Ken it seems I have two bare wires there is on coming out of the wire
loom and one hooked to the back of the electric box. Is that grounded
well enough or do I nned to hook those to the tank somewhere? Thanks
again for the help.

John Arbuckle

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> The white wire should be neutral and attached to one of the heater element terminals.
>
> The black wire should be hot and attached to one of the thermostat terminals.
>
> The bare wire is a safety ground and should be attached to the metal tank or one of it's metal fittings some how. �I'm not sure exactly where mine is attached. �It has been a few years since I was working in there.
>
> You will still need to add one additional wire (14 gauge) between the remaining terminal on the heater element and the remaining terminal on the thermostat.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Re: [GMCnet] water heater [message #112281 is a reply to message #112270]

Mon, 17 January 2011 20:37

Ken Burton

Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana

Karma: 10

Senior Member

I think you are confusing "green wire" safety ground with 120 volt AC neutral.

Safety ground is connected to the chassis of the motorhome at the breaker panel.

Neutral is attached to ground at the Onan or if you are on shore power back at the shore power supply outside of the coach.

We attached this appliance chassis (the electric water heater) to the breaker panel ground via the bare wire in his cable.

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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Re: [GMCnet] water heater [message #112282 is a reply to message #112275]

Mon, 17 January 2011 20:43

Ken Burton

Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana

Karma: 10

Senior Member

I'm not sure which electric box you are talking about. Is this electric box attached to the heater or tank some way?

All you are trying to accomplish is grounding the tank in case the heating element internally shorts to the water some day. Grounding the tank, or the electric box if it is electrically attached to the tank, is all you need to do.

What does the second bare wire attach to?

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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Re: [GMCnet] water heater [message #112310 is a reply to message #112281]

Mon, 17 January 2011 23:28

john arbuckle

Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Ken,

So do I need to connect this bare wire to the tank anywhere or if it
is attached to bare metal in the electrical box is that sufficient?
Not really sure what to do with this wire. The bare wire comes out of
the wire loom and is connected to another bare wire attached to the
electrical box with a screw. Can attach these wires or do they nned
to be connected to the tank somewhere? Thank you

John Arbuckle

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> I think you are confusing "green wire" safety ground with 120 volt AC neutral.
>
> Safety ground is connected to the chassis of the motorhome at the breaker panel.
>
> Neutral is attached to ground at the Onan or if you are on shore power back at the shore power supply outside of the coach.
>
> We attached this appliance chassis (the electric water heater) to the breaker panel ground via the bare wire in his cable.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
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>
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Re: [GMCnet] water heater [message #112314 is a reply to message #112310]

Tue, 18 January 2011 01:02

Ken Burton

Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana

Karma: 10

Senior Member

You can attach the bare wire to the electrical box. I do not remember where that box is so I do not know if the box is also attached to the tank some how. Is the box electrically mounted to the tanks assembly?

The bare wire is a safety ground and without the box electrically connected to the tank the heater will still run. I just wanted to have the tank also grounded. I got shocked one time from a defective heater element and an improperly connected safety ground. This is why I'm trying to also make sure that your tank is grounded.

HTH

Ken B.

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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Re: [GMCnet] water heater [message #112333 is a reply to message #112314]

Tue, 18 January 2011 10:35

john arbuckle

Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Ken,

No the electrical box is in no way connected to the tank. I can easily
run a wire from this safety ground to the tank and attach it where the
thermostat is connected to the tank. Is that the safe way to do this?
Ken you are an eletrical genius and I really appreciate the help.

John Arbuckle

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> You can attach the bare wire to the electrical box. �I do not remember where that box is so I do not know if the box is also attached to the tank some how. �Is the box electrically mounted to the tanks assembly?
>
> The bare wire is a safety ground and without the box electrically connected to the tank the heater will still run. �I just wanted to have the tank also grounded. �I got shocked one time from a defective heater element and an improperly connected safety ground. �This is why I'm trying to also make sure that your tank is grounded.
>
> HTH
>
> Ken B.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [GMCnet] water heater [message #112344 is a reply to message #112333]

Tue, 18 January 2011 14:05

Ken Burton

Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana

Karma: 10

Senior Member

john arbuckle wrote on Tue, 18 January 2011 10:35

Ken,

No the electrical box is in no way connected to the tank. I can easily
run a wire from this safety ground to the tank and attach it where the
thermostat is connected to the tank. Is that the safe way to do this?
Ken you are an electrical genius and I really appreciate the help.

John Arbuckle

That is exactly what I would do. Terminate the two wires to the electrical box. One wire then goes to the tank and the other wire through the wire loom back to the circuit breaker panel.

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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Re: [GMCnet] water heater [message #112365 is a reply to message #112344]

Tue, 18 January 2011 19:24

john arbuckle

Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Ken,

I connected the bare wire out of the loom and the bare wire grounded
to the back of the electrical box and connected a wire with a wire nut
to those two wires I then ran it to the tank and connected it to the
tank at the bolt that holds the thermostat on to the tank. I'm not to
sure what you mean by terminate the wires to the electrical box.
Thanks Ken

John Arbuckle

On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> john arbuckle wrote on Tue, 18 January 2011 10:35
>> Ken,
>>
>> No the electrical box is in no way connected to the tank. I can easily
>> run a wire from this safety ground to the tank and attach it where the
>> thermostat is connected to the tank. Is that the safe way to do this?
>> Ken you are an electrical genius and I really appreciate the help.
>>
>> John Arbuckle
>
> That is exactly what I would do. �Terminate the two wires to the electrical box. �One wire then goes to the tank and the other wire through the wire loom back to the circuit breaker panel.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Re: [GMCnet] water heater [message #112375 is a reply to message #112365]

Tue, 18 January 2011 22:04

Ken Burton

Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana

Karma: 10

Senior Member

john arbuckle wrote on Tue, 18 January 2011 19:24

Ken,

I connected the bare wire out of the loom and the bare wire grounded
to the back of the electrical box and connected a wire with a wire nut
to those two wires I then ran it to the tank and connected it to the
tank at the bolt that holds the thermostat on to the tank. I'm not to
sure what you mean by terminate the wires to the electrical box.
Thanks Ken

John Arbuckle

What you did is fine.

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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Re: [GMCnet] water heater [message #112377 is a reply to message #112375]

Tue, 18 January 2011 22:21

john arbuckle

Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Thx Ken I appreciate all the help wiring is almost impossible for me
so you saved me. I still have a long way to go with this beast so you
will probably hear from me again.

John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
Tucson AZ

On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 8:04 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> john arbuckle wrote on Tue, 18 January 2011 19:24
>> Ken,
>>
>> I �connected the bare wire out of the loom and the bare wire grounded
>> to the back of the electrical box and connected a wire with a wire nut
>> to those two wires I then ran it to the tank and connected it to the
>> tank at the bolt that holds the thermostat on to the tank. I'm not to
>> sure what you mean by terminate the wires to the electrical box.
>> Thanks Ken
>>
>> John Arbuckle
>
> �What you did is fine.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [GMCnet] water heater [message #112383 is a reply to message #112377]

Tue, 18 January 2011 23:29

Ken Burton

Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana

Karma: 10

Senior Member

john arbuckle wrote on Tue, 18 January 2011 22:21

Thx Ken I appreciate all the help wiring is almost impossible for me
so you saved me. I still have a long way to go with this beast so you
will probably hear from me again.

John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
Tucson AZ

Any time John. There are lots of other people on here that will also help so do not feel you need to wait for me.

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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