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| [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #111995] |
Fri, 14 January 2011 10:52  |
paul h cashman
Messages: 176
Registered: May 2005
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Hi All,
About Five Years ago ,I went in my Basement ,and Water was Spraying all over
the place .I found out, it was coming from my Hot Water expansion Tank
.The Tank was only, a couple of Years Old?.It had Rusted through ,
I installed a New Tank,but this time, I enclosed it in a Pillow Case and
installed a Drip Pan and a Drain.
I installed a Length of Hose ,dead ended, for expansion in my Transmode,I
couldn't find, space for a Tank.
Paul Cashman
Riverdale Ga
78 Transmode
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Paul H Cashman
Riverdale Ga
1978 Transmode
1975 Corvette
1978 Beetle Convertible
1989 Harley Davidson Sportster
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #112006 is a reply to message #111995] |
Fri, 14 January 2011 12:50  |
Terry Skinner
Messages: 379
Registered: January 2004
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Once in a while that length of hose will get water logged. Filled with
just water and no air. That is why they put a schreader valve on the
other end. So you can put some air back in. The newer accumulator
tanks have a rubber diaphragm in the middle to keep the air contained.
Just a thought..........Terry
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Paul Cashman <paulcashman@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Hi All,
> About Five Years ago ,I went in my Basement ,and Water was Spraying all over
> the place .I found out, it was coming from my Hot Water expansion Tank
> .The Tank was only, a couple of Years Old?.It had Rusted through ,
> I installed a New Tank,but this time, I enclosed it in a Pillow Case and
> installed a Drip Pan and a Drain.
> I installed a Length of Hose ,dead ended, for expansion in my Transmode,I
> couldn't find, space for a Tank.
> Paul Cashman
> Riverdale Ga
> 78 Transmode
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Terry Skinner
253-686-2624
Roy. Washington
'76 GMC
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #112013 is a reply to message #112006] |
Fri, 14 January 2011 18:48 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| Terry Skinner wrote on Fri, 14 January 2011 10:50 |
Once in a while that length of hose [simple accumulator] will get water logged. Filled with
just water and no air. That is why they put a schreader valve on the
other end. So you can put some air back in. The newer accumulator
tanks have a rubber diaphragm in the middle to keep the air contained.
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I was wondering about this.
How long does it take for the air to be dissolved into the water? IE: how often do you have to recharge a simple (no bladder) accumulator? Once a week? Once a month? ... Once a year?
RV use is different to a home hot water heater or well pump.
In RV use, if it is long enough between "recharges" you might not need a bladder. It might be not be a bad idea to make a simple accumulator from plastic pipe.
Just my my thoughts...
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #112015 is a reply to message #112013] |
Fri, 14 January 2011 20:00 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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I have only recharged a couple of them that do not have the bladder. In both cases they were over 20 years old.
I have large bladder type one buried outside below the frost line at my hanger at the airport. I monitor the air pressure via a plastic tube that urns up and into my hanger. I also use the plastic line to tell the pump switch when to turn off and on. I installed it this way to make it all freeze proof. After about 12 years I had to add some air to the bladder.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #112017 is a reply to message #112013] |
Fri, 14 January 2011 20:06 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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I've never recharged my accumulator in 11 years.
With the pressure frequently completely depleted, I wouldn't expect to
ever realize any effects from air absorption without a bladder. If I
had a convenient place, like the back corner of a closet, to put a
vertical 3"-4" PVC pipe, capped on top, with a suitable pipe fitting
on the bottom,
that would probably be my accumulator.
Ken H.
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Mike Miller wrote:
>
> How long does it take for the air to be dissolved into the water? IE: how often do you have to recharge a simple (no bladder) accumulator? Once a week? Once a month? ... Once a year?
>
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Ken Henderson
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #112029 is a reply to message #112017] |
Fri, 14 January 2011 22:14 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Fri, 14 January 2011 20:06 |
I've never recharged my accumulator in 11 years.
With the pressure frequently completely depleted, I wouldn't expect to
ever realize any effects from air absorption without a bladder. If I
had a convenient place, like the back corner of a closet, to put a
vertical 3"-4" PVC pipe, capped on top, with a suitable pipe fitting
on the bottom,
that would probably be my accumulator.
Ken H.
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Mike Miller wrote:
>
> How long does it take for the air to be dissolved into the water? IE: how often do you have to recharge a simple (no bladder) accumulator? Once a week? Once a month? ... Once a year?
|
I checked the one in my coach after 4 or 5 years and it did not need any additional air to be added. It is a bladder type accumulator.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #112054 is a reply to message #112042] |
Sat, 15 January 2011 11:04 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| mcolie wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 04:56 |
| Quote: |
...
In RV use, if it is long enough between "recharges" you might not need a bladder. It might be not be a bad idea to make a simple accumulator from plastic pipe. ...
|
For eight years we lived in a house with a well pump and non-bladder (old galvanized tank). Roughly once a year the pump cycle would get short and I would have to do the repressurise exercise.
Matt
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Thanks Matt!
That is about what I figured.
A step or two added (or slightly changed) to the de-winterizing procedure should take care of keeping the tank pressurized for most of the season.
Making one from a length of 3 or 4 inch "potable water safe" plastic pipe with reducers on each end, should be very cheap and long lasting. Placed vertically with a schrader valve on top and connected to the water system on the bottom should work fine.
If made a little larger than what is needed, it should self adjust to the correct pressure. The only time it would have to have air put into it would be when draining the system.
I'll think about this a little longer...
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #112078 is a reply to message #112054] |
Sat, 15 January 2011 18:06 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| mike miller wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 11:04 |
| mcolie wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 04:56 |
| Quote: |
...
In RV use, if it is long enough between "recharges" you might not need a bladder. It might be not be a bad idea to make a simple accumulator from plastic pipe. ...
|
For eight years we lived in a house with a well pump and non-bladder (old galvanized tank). Roughly once a year the pump cycle would get short and I would have to do the repressurise exercise.
Matt
|
Thanks Matt!
That is about what I figured.
A step or two added (or slightly changed) to the de-winterizing procedure should take care of keeping the tank pressurized for most of the season.
Making one from a length of 3 or 4 inch "potable water safe" plastic pipe with reducers on each end, should be very cheap and long lasting. Placed vertically with a schrader valve on top and connected to the water system on the bottom should work fine.
If made a little larger than what is needed, it should self adjust to the correct pressure. The only time it would have to have air put into it would be when draining the system.
I'll think about this a little longer...
|
If you use a non-bladder type accumulator in a GMC you will have to leave the pump on all of the time. If you ever turn on the water and drain the accumulator without the pump being on line the the air pressure will come out into the water line and you will loose the accumulator air charge.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #112083 is a reply to message #112078] |
Sat, 15 January 2011 19:09 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Ken,
I haven't tried it, but it seems to me that an accumulator charged to 0 psi
will still work -- it just won't have much pressurized capacity. That's why
I said I'd want a closet -- so I could make the vertical pipe LONG. If that
won't work, I wouldn't even consider using one.
If you run the numbers, using the relationship P1*V1=P2*V2, you find that a
bladderless tank should have an effective volume (30 psi to 50 psi) of about
10% of its total volume. The bladder tank would be more like 30% effective.
Ken H.
On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 7:06 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> If you use a non-bladder type accumulator in a GMC you will have to leave
> the pump on all of the time. If you ever turn on the water and drain the
> accumulator without the pump being on line the the air pressure will come
> out into the water line and you will loose the accumulator air charge.
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #112094 is a reply to message #112083] |
Sat, 15 January 2011 20:44 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 19:09 |
Ken,
I haven't tried it, but it seems to me that an accumulator charged to 0 psi
will still work -- it just won't have much pressurized capacity. That's why
I said I'd want a closet -- so I could make the vertical pipe LONG. If that
won't work, I wouldn't even consider using one.
If you run the numbers, using the relationship P1*V1=P2*V2, you find that a
bladderless tank should have an effective volume (30 psi to 50 psi) of about
10% of its total volume. The bladder tank would be more like 30% effective.
Ken H.
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I agree. My point was to not to bother pre-charging a non-bladder tank if you are not going to keep it always under water pressure. You will loose all of the pre-charge air the first time you let the water pressure go to zero.
I wonder if you could come up with some kind of spring loaded valve that closes when the tank goes below your low pressure point (like 20 PSI) to prevent the air from escaping.
I think we are over engineering this when I can just go by one at Menards for $35.00.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #112115 is a reply to message #112094] |
Sun, 16 January 2011 02:40 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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| Ken Burton wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 20:44 |
I think we are over engineering this when I can just go by one at Menards for $35.00.
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Yep. Sometimes "cause I can" ends up costing a lot of time, and sometimes a lot of $. Although the vertical PVC pipe in a closet has some attraction, although it's hard to imagine that some unused space can't be found somewhere for a small accumulator. Mine is tucked in next to the water tank. (however my water tank is across the rear under the gaucho (floor plan 2) so there may be a bit more room next to my water tank.)
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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