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| [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #111770] |
Wed, 12 January 2011 14:50  |
john arbuckle
Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010
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I was at home depot gathering some other supplies for my new water heater
and I found one of those tanks for the home that one of you were talking as
using as an accumulator tank on the rv. Can anyone tell me how it would be
plumbed it only has one output at the top of the tank. If anyone has used
one of these any help would be great, it is much bigger than any tank sold
at an rv place for this purpose. And I also noticed these tanks have
pressure in them is that a problem or is that the idea. Thanks anyone who
could help.
John Arbuckle
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #111774 is a reply to message #111770] |
Wed, 12 January 2011 15:45  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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John,
Your description matches my accumulator. The single connection goes
to the cold water line downstream of the water pump. The pressure in
the tank is intentional; the trapped air is compressed by the water
pressure. When the pump shuts off, the compressed air maintains water
pressure until it drops back to the cut-on pressure of the pump's
switch. I find about 30 psi ideal, but your pump will determine the
correct setting -- just a little below the cut-on pressure.
Aside from plumbing access and pressure fitting access, the mounting
location can be anywhere -- you shouldn't need to access it again.
Mine's mounted with a band-sawn wood cradle and sheet metal straps.
Almost any method would suffice, from tywraps to Great Stuff.
Ken H.
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 3:50 PM, john arbuckle <jarbuckle1209@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was at home depot gathering some other supplies for my new water heater
> and I found one of those tanks for the home that one of you were talking as
> using as an accumulator tank on the rv. Can anyone tell me how it would be
> plumbed it only has one output at the top of the tank. If anyone has used
> one of these any help would be great, it is much bigger than any tank sold
> at an rv place for this purpose. And I also noticed these tanks have
> pressure in them is that a problem or is that the idea. Thanks anyone who
> could help.
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #111776 is a reply to message #111774] |
Wed, 12 January 2011 16:56 |
john arbuckle
Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010
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Im sorry i don't mean to sound a little slow but downstream from the water
pump is that between the tank and pump or between the pump and the black
plastic pex line that runs to the bathroom and so on. And can you set the
pressure in thos tanks because the one I saw came pressurized I think to
like 40 PSI or something like that. Again sorry for the stupid questiones
don't want to plumb it wrong and have to do it over.
Thank you for your help I think this will make a great improvement in the
system.
JOHN Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
Tucson AZ.
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> John,
>
> Your description matches my accumulator. The single connection goes
> to the cold water line downstream of the water pump. The pressure in
> the tank is intentional; the trapped air is compressed by the water
> pressure. When the pump shuts off, the compressed air maintains water
> pressure until it drops back to the cut-on pressure of the pump's
> switch. I find about 30 psi ideal, but your pump will determine the
> correct setting -- just a little below the cut-on pressure.
>
> Aside from plumbing access and pressure fitting access, the mounting
> location can be anywhere -- you shouldn't need to access it again.
> Mine's mounted with a band-sawn wood cradle and sheet metal straps.
> Almost any method would suffice, from tywraps to Great Stuff.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 3:50 PM, john arbuckle <jarbuckle1209@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I was at home depot gathering some other supplies for my new water heater
> > and I found one of those tanks for the home that one of you were talking
> as
> > using as an accumulator tank on the rv. Can anyone tell me how it would
> be
> > plumbed it only has one output at the top of the tank. If anyone has used
> > one of these any help would be great, it is much bigger than any tank
> sold
> > at an rv place for this purpose. And I also noticed these tanks have
> > pressure in them is that a problem or is that the idea. Thanks anyone who
> > could help.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #111781 is a reply to message #111776] |
Wed, 12 January 2011 17:27 |
Gary Worobec
Messages: 867
Registered: May 2005
Karma: -1
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It can go anywhere in the system on the cold water, pressure side.
Thanks
Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
Anza, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "john arbuckle" <jarbuckle1209@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank
> Im sorry i don't mean to sound a little slow but downstream from the water
> pump is that between the tank and pump or between the pump and the black
> plastic pex line that runs to the bathroom and so on. And can you set the
> pressure in thos tanks because the one I saw came pressurized I think to
> like 40 PSI or something like that. Again sorry for the stupid questiones
> don't want to plumb it wrong and have to do it over.
>
> Thank you for your help I think this will make a great improvement in the
> system.
> JOHN Arbuckle
> 1976 Palm Beach
> Tucson AZ.
>
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Ken Henderson
> <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> Your description matches my accumulator. The single connection goes
>> to the cold water line downstream of the water pump. The pressure in
>> the tank is intentional; the trapped air is compressed by the water
>> pressure. When the pump shuts off, the compressed air maintains water
>> pressure until it drops back to the cut-on pressure of the pump's
>> switch. I find about 30 psi ideal, but your pump will determine the
>> correct setting -- just a little below the cut-on pressure.
>>
>> Aside from plumbing access and pressure fitting access, the mounting
>> location can be anywhere -- you shouldn't need to access it again.
>> Mine's mounted with a band-sawn wood cradle and sheet metal straps.
>> Almost any method would suffice, from tywraps to Great Stuff.
>>
>> Ken H.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 3:50 PM, john arbuckle <jarbuckle1209@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I was at home depot gathering some other supplies for my new water
>> > heater
>> > and I found one of those tanks for the home that one of you were
>> > talking
>> as
>> > using as an accumulator tank on the rv. Can anyone tell me how it would
>> be
>> > plumbed it only has one output at the top of the tank. If anyone has
>> > used
>> > one of these any help would be great, it is much bigger than any tank
>> sold
>> > at an rv place for this purpose. And I also noticed these tanks have
>> > pressure in them is that a problem or is that the idea. Thanks anyone
>> > who
>> > could help.
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #111797 is a reply to message #111776] |
Wed, 12 January 2011 18:53 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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John,
"Downstream of the pump" is on the pressure side -- toward the faucets.
There should be a Shrader valve on the tank end opposite the water
connection. 40 psi may be a satisfactory setting, dependent upon you
pump's output, but I suspect 30 psi will be closer.
Ken H.
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 5:56 PM, john arbuckle wrote:
> Im sorry i don't mean to sound a little slow but downstream from the water
> pump is that between the tank and pump or between the pump and the black
> plastic pex line that runs to the bathroom and so on. And can you set the
> pressure in thos tanks because the one I saw came pressurized I think to
> like 40 PSI or something like that...
_______________________________________________
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http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #111806 is a reply to message #111797] |
Wed, 12 January 2011 20:20 |
john arbuckle
Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Are these set pressures they are sold with or can I adjust them with the
valve?
Thanks for the help
John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
Tucson Az
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> John,
>
> "Downstream of the pump" is on the pressure side -- toward the faucets.
>
> There should be a Shrader valve on the tank end opposite the water
> connection. 40 psi may be a satisfactory setting, dependent upon you
> pump's output, but I suspect 30 psi will be closer.
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 5:56 PM, john arbuckle wrote:
> > Im sorry i don't mean to sound a little slow but downstream from the
> water
> > pump is that between the tank and pump or between the pump and the black
> > plastic pex line that runs to the bathroom and so on. And can you set the
> > pressure in thos tanks because the one I saw came pressurized I think to
> > like 40 PSI or something like that...
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #111809 is a reply to message #111774] |
Wed, 12 January 2011 20:35 |
john arbuckle
Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Is your tank a silver color or a blue color there are a few tanks and I want
to get the right one. Thanks
John Arbuckle
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> John,
>
> Your description matches my accumulator. The single connection goes
> to the cold water line downstream of the water pump. The pressure in
> the tank is intentional; the trapped air is compressed by the water
> pressure. When the pump shuts off, the compressed air maintains water
> pressure until it drops back to the cut-on pressure of the pump's
> switch. I find about 30 psi ideal, but your pump will determine the
> correct setting -- just a little below the cut-on pressure.
>
> Aside from plumbing access and pressure fitting access, the mounting
> location can be anywhere -- you shouldn't need to access it again.
> Mine's mounted with a band-sawn wood cradle and sheet metal straps.
> Almost any method would suffice, from tywraps to Great Stuff.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 3:50 PM, john arbuckle <jarbuckle1209@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I was at home depot gathering some other supplies for my new water heater
> > and I found one of those tanks for the home that one of you were talking
> as
> > using as an accumulator tank on the rv. Can anyone tell me how it would
> be
> > plumbed it only has one output at the top of the tank. If anyone has used
> > one of these any help would be great, it is much bigger than any tank
> sold
> > at an rv place for this purpose. And I also noticed these tanks have
> > pressure in them is that a problem or is that the idea. Thanks anyone who
> > could help.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #111827 is a reply to message #111770] |
Wed, 12 January 2011 21:40 |
Rusty
Messages: 197
Registered: October 2005
Location: Philadelphia Pa
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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John - just get a brass 'T' and attach the center port of the T to the tank. The other two go to the water pump outlet and the supply line going to the rest of the coach.
I got a small blue accumulator tank from Lowes, 6 gallons I think. I don't even remember if it has a schrader valve, I know I didnt pressurize it, if it does . . . so it may have come with some pressure. The tank has a rubber diaphram inside. Pumping it with air pressure will make it stretch in a hemisphere shape towards the water connection.
So now I have a question for everybody. If theres 30# air pressure at the schrader on the new tank when you buy it . . . then you connect the tank to the system, and turn on the water pump which puts out 10 pounds of water pressure when it cuts off, what happens? Some water will enter the tank and possibly fill the portion on the opposite side of the diaphram the air pressure is on, and once the coach lines fill up and you have water pressure at the faucets and so forth . . . when the pump kicks off, is the pressure 40 pounds, the sum of the pump and tank?
I'm not a fluids engineer ! Whats the static pressure at cutoff?
Rusty
75 Glenbrook
Philadelphia Pa
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #111829 is a reply to message #111797] |
Wed, 12 January 2011 22:12 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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On Jan 12, 2011, at 5:53 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
> John,
>
> "Downstream of the pump" is on the pressure side -- toward the faucets.
>
> There should be a Shrader valve on the tank end opposite the water
> connection. 40 psi may be a satisfactory setting, dependent upon you
> pump's output, but I suspect 30 psi will be closer.
>
> Ken H.
I have a Jabsco accumulator tank made for RV use. The instructions say to give a pre charge pressure of 10 psi. It further says DO NOT use more than 10 psi.
The reason for this is that if you use a pressure near the output pressure of the pump then the pump is not going to be able to put much pressure into the accumulator tank. By using 10 psi then, if for example, your pump puts out 40 psi, the tank then would have fluid forced against the diaphram of 40 psi. When the pump is off then the accumulator can provide pressure to your lines of 40 psi which dwindles down to 10 psi. If you precharge the tank with 30 psi then you only have a net pressure of 10 psi to the lines and you do not get enough compression against the diaphram in the tank.
The pressure that you precharge with is not the amount of pressure the diaphram is going to exert against the water lines.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #111830 is a reply to message #111770] |
Wed, 12 January 2011 22:53 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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OK guys. I think you are making more out of this than necessary. Originally these were just an open tank that was filled at the bottom. As it filled it compressed the air into the top of the tank and when the whole system (tank and water through the house) reached the pump shut off pressure the pump shut down. Then as water is called for the air in the tank would force the water out without needing the pump. I have one of these in my basement and another in my hanger. When the pressure dropped low enough the pump would kick back on and supply water to whatever valve was open and also fill up the tank again. ALL well water tanks were made this way. What would happen was over time the air in the tank would dissolve or get absorbed into the water an the tank would become waterlogged. So a schrader valve was added to the top of the tank to allow recharging the air from time to time.
A later improvement was made by adding a rubber bladder to hold the air. Think of it as a tire inner tube. This bladder allowed separation of the air from the water. This bladder is pre-charged to be the same pressure as he low cut in level on the pump (actually it should be 2 PSI below.) When the pump turns on the pressure in the system is increased and the air compresses allowing the tank to fill up just the same as it was in the tank without the bladder. You can read the pressures there with a tire gauge at the schrader valve.
If you do not know the turn on and turn off pressure of your pump, you can check them at the schrader valve with a tire gauge. Here is how:
1. Turn the pump off
2. Open any water valve in the coach and run the water until it stops.
3. Bleed off the air to about 10 PSI.
4. Turn on the pump an let it run until it stops. Read the pressure at the schrader. This is the high pressure shut of point.
5. With the pressure tank, the pump turn on, and the pressure gauge still attached turn on any faucet letting the water run. Watch the pressure on the gauge and take a reading at the point where the pump just turns on. This is the low pressure turn on point.
6. Turn off the pump and run a faucet until water stops coming out of the system.
7. Now take the low pressure reading and subtract 2. Put compressed air in the tank to this value.
8. You are finished.
You now have an operating expansion tank and it is charged to hold the maximum amount of water for your system.
It makes no difference whether the tank you get was sold as a well water tank or a hot water expansion tank, they are all the same. Hot water expansion tanks are usually smaller that is why we suggest you look for one of them. My local Home Depot has them in two locations. One near the hot water heaters and another near the water well stuff.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| why I need a accumulator tank [message #111835 is a reply to message #111830] |
Wed, 12 January 2011 23:32 |
bukzin
Messages: 840
Registered: April 2004
Location: North California
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Did you put one in your coach?
What else does this mod do for us?
I'm thinking...
water pump runs less often (lasts longer and less noise)
faucets and shower have more consistent water output
Am I on the right track here?
Bukzin
1977 Palm Beach
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| Re: why I need a accumulator tank [message #111838 is a reply to message #111835] |
Thu, 13 January 2011 00:01 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| bukzin wrote on Wed, 12 January 2011 23:32 |
Ken,
Did you put one in your coach?
What else does this mod do for us?
I'm thinking...
water pump runs less often (lasts longer and less noise)
faucets and shower have more consistent water output
Am I on the right track here?
|
The answers to your questions are yes and yes. I put one in when I first got my coach. Install it and forget it. it.
When I winterize my coach I fill up the accumulator with one gallon of RV antifreeze using the existing water pump. Then I open the faucets until pink stuff flows. The rest I leave in the accumulator and keep the system pressurized all winter.
I prefered to install mine vertical with the inlet at the bottom but from what I understand they can be mounted horizontal also.
I forget now what the off and on pressures were for my pump. I believe they were something like 15 and 30 PSI. My home system is 30 and 50 PSI. So is my hanger.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #111848 is a reply to message #111839] |
Thu, 13 January 2011 00:47 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| john arbuckle wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 00:07 |
So it is best to mount this tank with the water output on the bottom of the
tank? Sorry just want al to be clear for installation.
John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
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You do not have to. I just prefer to do it that way out of habit from using non bladder type tanks.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] why I need a accumulator tank [message #111849 is a reply to message #111841] |
Thu, 13 January 2011 00:49 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| john arbuckle wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 00:09 |
So from what I read you would set your pressure in the tank at 13? Is that
correct?
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YES...But you need to check your pump for it's turn off and on pressure. I do not know what range yours runs in.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] home depot accumulator tank [message #111854 is a reply to message #111848] |
Thu, 13 January 2011 06:15 |
gmcrv1
Messages: 839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Memphis
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
I always installed (3 times) the expansion/accumulator tank with the
fitting down - assuming we are talking about the same thing. With the
fitting down that allows all the water in the tank to be "available". If
you lay the tank on it's side, doesn't that mean you will only have use of
1/4 of the tank? Doesn't the bladder separate across the equator of the
tank taking up half of the volume? So, mounting horizontally I envision the
tank being half pressurized air within the bladder side and half pressurized
water with only half of the water being above the inlet/outlet fitting. If
this is not the case, then I will be installing some kind of accumulator
tank while I install my new water tank.
Hope I made myself reasonably clear.
Just my thoughts...
Thanks,
Tom Eckert N2VWN
73 Glacier
Oakland, TN
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 12:47 AM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> john arbuckle wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 00:07
> > So it is best to mount this tank with the water output on the bottom of
> the
> > tank? Sorry just want al to be clear for installation.
> >
> > John Arbuckle
> > 1976 Palm Beach
>
> You do not have to. I just prefer to do it that way out of habit from
> using non bladder type tanks.
>
>
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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