Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Brake upgrades (how much and benifits)
| Brake upgrades [message #110672] |
Mon, 03 January 2011 12:17  |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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There is always alot of information on all the different brake options out there.
I am wondering about cost vs. performance. obviously the brake reaction arm, with all disk brakes is a decent upgrade, but very cost prohibitive.
I have a very small budget, and am in the beginning stages of making my coach usable, and safe.
there is a cost with just rebuilding a stock system. how much more does one spend to get a little better?
I am not looking to do any mountain driving anytime soon. but I also do not want to crash up the coach either. And would like to be comfortable to have my wife or friends drive it.
Bur right now my coach is a project, I just intend on using it and fixing it as I go.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: Brake upgrades [message #110689 is a reply to message #110672] |
Mon, 03 January 2011 15:20  |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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I was faced with a similar situation when I purchased my coach, and felt that the most reasonable way was to start with a refurbished stock system. I replaced the master cylinder and got a sensitized brake booster, then a new combination valve. After replacing the wheel cylinders and brake lines, we put in new pads all around, flushed and bled the system with new DOT 5 silicone fluid (controversial, but as the coach sits most of the time, I thought it would be fine). Be sure to get the rivited brake drum linings (Jim Bounds got me the information on which are correct) for the rear drums.
A renewed stock system should be safe and will work as designed by the engineers that first built it. Once you can trust that system, then I'd look at upgrading things if you desire. Like you, I don't have any mountain driving to deal with, and the coach seems to stop just great around here. I would also like to do more upgrades to the brake system, but my CFO (Julie) says we have to get the kid's tuitions paid as well, so all these other projects are on a back burner for now.
Enjoy you coach in good health!
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Brake upgrades [message #110698 is a reply to message #110672] |
Mon, 03 January 2011 16:29 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Jon,
When I bought Double Trouble it had Caddy disk brakes on all four rear
wheels but no emergency brake. I had to have one to register it in NJ so Ken
Frey pulled the rear disks off and installed standard drums and hooked them
to the e-brake cables. The day before had the coach inspected I adjusted the
rear shoes as far as possible, tightened the cables as far as possible, and
when I got to the inspection station screwed out the adjusting knob on the
end of the emergency brake handle as far as possible. An employee of testing
facility then got in the coach and drove it into the building. I watched as
the coach proceeded down the inspection line to the brake test section. He
hit the brakes on the "skid pads" and then I watched him as he strained to
pull up the e-brake handle! He hit the gas and it held so I passed. When I
got in I screwed out the adjusting knob on the e-brake to a reasonable
level.
It has been noted here that even with standard OEM rear drums you can lockup
the rear wheels so installing disks seems to be futile in a panic stop
UNLESS you install the reaction arm system. Obviously disks on the rears
will be superior when driving in mountainous territory from a fade
perspective with or without the reaction arm system.
I reckon installing Caddy disk brakes from the junkyard (after rebuilding
the calipers) on the middle wheels is a cheap way to get much improved
braking. I would also recommend installing a sensitized booster. It doesn't
increase the total force on the calipers or wheel cylinders but it sure
reduces the effort big time! Double Trouble required a P-30 master cylinder
for the six disk brake calipers. I wonder if a standard OEM master cylinder
has a long enough stroke to provide enough fluid to actuate four brake
calipers and two wheel cylinders? Since it has a smaller bore ID it would
put more pressure on the caliper pistons and result in better braking. Does
anyone have disks on the front and middle wheels and drums on the rears with
the OEM master cylinder?
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jon Roche
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 5:17 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Brake upgrades
There is always alot of information on all the different brake options out
there.
I am wondering about cost vs. performance. obviously the brake reaction
arm, with all disk brakes is a decent upgrade, but very cost prohibitive.
I have a very small budget, and am in the beginning stages of making my
coach usable, and safe.
there is a cost with just rebuilding a stock system. how much more does one
spend to get a little better?
I am not looking to do any mountain driving anytime soon. but I also do not
want to crash up the coach either. And would like to be comfortable to have
my wife or friends drive it.
Bur right now my coach is a project, I just intend on using it and fixing it
as I go.
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GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Brake upgrades [message #110702 is a reply to message #110689] |
Mon, 03 January 2011 16:54 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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If you are redoing the front brakes change to 80mm calipers.
it's about the same cost as rebuilt stock calipers and you don't have to change the master cylinder.
The braking improvement is quite good.
It's no tlike a minivan, but mine really improved.
I got calipers, pads and new hoses from O'Riley. They come with the new slide pins, where Autozone sells the seperately ( and you need new ones, the old ones don't fit)
They even took my old calipers for the core.
Best bang for the buck IMHO.
http://www.gmcmotorhome.info/brakes.html
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Brake upgrades [message #110707 is a reply to message #110698] |
Mon, 03 January 2011 17:04 |
78 Barbi
Messages: 80
Registered: August 2004
Location: Tiverton, Ontario , Canad...
Karma: -1
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Rob Mueller wrote:
Since it has a smaller bore ID it would put more pressure on the caliper pistons and result in better braking. Does anyone have disks on the front and middle wheels and drums on the rears with the OEM master cylinder?
Rob; Goodness your memory is getting almost as bad as mine, I posted this a day or two ago. "In a nutshell" , 4- 80 mm calipers, 2 OEM wheel cylinders and 1 OEM master cyl. just prior to the DuQuoin convention, At the comvention; 2- 80mm front calipers, 2-70 mm intermediate calipers , 2- 66 mm calipers on the rear and 1 OEM master cyl.
I have the 80 mm calipers on the front of the coach and removed the 80 mm calipers that I had on the intermediate wheel set that I installed a couple of years ago. I installed a new set of 70 mm calipers ( ie. Front OEM) on the intermediate wheel set . These calipers are actually 74.6mm piston diameter. Why aren’t they called 75 mm ??? , Removed the rear most drums and installed a pair of the 66 mm Kelsey Hayes parkbrake calipers. The paint dried on them between home and DeQuoin , Il. There appears to be no problem with the OEM master cylinder capacity . I would consider going to a MC that has the same bore as the OEM but a larger fluid volume , Does anyone know what this master cylinder is called ?
Cheers......Albert Branscombe
Barbi....The 23 foot Birchaven
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| Re: [GMCnet] Brake upgrades [message #110712 is a reply to message #110707] |
Mon, 03 January 2011 17:19 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Al,
Yep! CRS strikes again! I think the reason the info didn't sink in is the
fact that you listed them as 4-80 mm calipers and I've been calling them
Caddy calipers! Your nomenclature is correct, mine is not!
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Albert&Sheila
Branscombe
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 10:05 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Brake upgrades
Rob Mueller wrote:
Since it has a smaller bore ID it would put more pressure on the caliper
pistons and result in better braking. Does anyone have disks on the front
and middle wheels and drums on the rears with the OEM master cylinder?
Rob; Goodness your memory is getting almost as bad as mine, I posted this a
day or two ago. "In a nutshell" , 4- 80 mm calipers, 2 OEM wheel cylinders
and 1 OEM master cyl. just prior to the DuQuoin convention, At the
comvention; 2- 80mm front calipers, 2-70 mm intermediate calipers , 2- 66 mm
calipers on the rear and 1 OEM master cyl.
I have the 80 mm calipers on the front of the coach and removed the 80 mm
calipers that I had on the intermediate wheel set that I installed a couple
of years ago. I installed a new set of 70 mm calipers ( ie. Front OEM) on
the intermediate wheel set . These calipers are actually 74.6mm piston
diameter. Why aren’t they called 75 mm ??? , Removed the rear most
drums and installed a pair of the 66 mm Kelsey Hayes parkbrake calipers. The
paint dried on them between home and DeQuoin , Il. There appears to be no
problem with the OEM master cylinder capacity . I would consider going to a
MC that has the same bore as the OEM but a larger fluid volume , Does anyone
know what this master cylinder is called ?
Cheers......Albert Branscombe
Barbi....The 23 foot Birchaven
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GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Brake upgrades [message #110720 is a reply to message #110672] |
Mon, 03 January 2011 17:49 |
78 Barbi
Messages: 80
Registered: August 2004
Location: Tiverton, Ontario , Canad...
Karma: -1
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Member |
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Jon wrote:
There is always alot of information on all the different brake options out there.
I am wondering about cost vs. performance. obviously the brake reaction arm, with all disk brakes is a decent upgrade, but very cost prohibitive.
I have a very small budget, and am in the beginning stages of making my coach usable, and safe.
Jon; Since you appear to be starting from scratch on upgrading your brake system; you might find something interesting / helpful on our website www.bdub.net/branscombe , checkout the Powerpoint presentation. With all components in good shape and in proper adjustment a front set of 80 mm calipers, and the OEM fronts moved to the intermediate and drums on the rear and the OEM master cylinder, you'll have a very adequate braking system. Best of luck in the New Year on your project.
Albert Branscombe
78 Barbi
The 23 foot Birchaven
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| Re: Brake upgrades [message #110724 is a reply to message #110672] |
Mon, 03 January 2011 18:05 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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i installed the 80mm calipers on the front and 1" wheel cylinders on the center wheels with stock cylinders on the rear. the improvement was very noticeable and the low cost/labor way to go. may not be the best bang for the buck but i'm happy with it. i have a home built toad brake and the total rig stops really great.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Brake upgrades [message #110739 is a reply to message #110698] |
Mon, 03 January 2011 21:03 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
Dave Mumert's already done all the calculations except some simple
arithmetic for determining the effects of 'most any combination of
brake modifications:
http://www.gmcmotorhome.info/GMCBrakeCalcs.pdf
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
...
> Double Trouble required a P-30 master cylinder
> for the six disk brake calipers. I wonder if a standard OEM master cylinder
> has a long enough stroke to provide enough fluid to actuate four brake
> calipers and two wheel cylinders? Since it has a smaller bore ID it would
> put more pressure on the caliper pistons and result in better braking. Does
> anyone have disks on the front and middle wheels and drums on the rears with
> the OEM master cylinder?
>
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GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Brake upgrades [message #110746 is a reply to message #110739] |
Mon, 03 January 2011 22:34 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Thanks, I've printed this out and after what Al noted I have a brand new
P-30 M/C that I don't need!
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 2:03 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Brake upgrades
Rob,
Dave Mumert's already done all the calculations except some simple
arithmetic for determining the effects of 'most any combination of
brake modifications:
http://www.gmcmotorhome.info/GMCBrakeCalcs.pdf
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
...
> Double Trouble required a P-30 master cylinder
> for the six disk brake calipers. I wonder if a standard OEM master
cylinder
> has a long enough stroke to provide enough fluid to actuate four brake
> calipers and two wheel cylinders? Since it has a smaller bore ID it would
> put more pressure on the caliper pistons and result in better braking.
Does
> anyone have disks on the front and middle wheels and drums on the rears
with
> the OEM master cylinder?
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Brake upgrades [message #110808 is a reply to message #110759] |
Tue, 04 January 2011 17:40 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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thank you. I am hoping most of my stock systems is somewhat intact, my coach looks to have been gone through and then sat for 10 years. is there a good link/spot to get the total information to going to the 80mm calipers?
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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