Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK
| [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK [message #109343] |
Tue, 21 December 2010 19:11  |
Charles Aulgur
Messages: 78
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Rob M.
I want to thank you for the list of URKs you posted lately. It has
been raining in San Diego for the last several days. The rain gauge
overran yesterday so I had to empty it and today it is almost to 4
inches. Since I'm trapped indoors and needed something to keep me
occupied I downloaded the 8 or so URLs you posted about brakes
published by Toyota. They were apparently developed for training
aids for their employes and have quite a lot of details. The one I
found most interesting was the one on vacuum boosters. I think I now
understand how they work. There is a small round piece of rubber
about the size of a quarter between the vacuum booster mechanism and
where it pushes on the MC push-rod. All they do to sensitize a
vacuum booster is change that little disc of rubber to one of
different density. The big coast of getting one sensitized is all
the other rubber parts they change. Another one of the articles is
how a disc brake caliper with a parking brake mechanism works. The
cross-section drawings look just like the Cad calipers I have on my
rear two wheels. Now if I just knew how much load I can apply to
them with my new air shock actuated parking brake without breaking them.
Thanks, Chuck
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| Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK [message #109355 is a reply to message #109352] |
Tue, 21 December 2010 21:55  |
gmcrv1
Messages: 839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Memphis
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Charles,
As long as you are trying to stay dry you may consider taking a look at this
web site. I am told by some first hand experienced friends that these guys
really know their stuff about brakes and braking systems. They also have a
toll free number and take the time to answer questions and discuss one on
one brake systems Beyond my comprehension,
http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/
Tom Eckert N2VWN
73 Glacier
Oakland.
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:28 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> Chuck,
>
> Glad I provided some rainy day entertainment for you! ;-)
>
> I scanned a few of the articles and felt they were written in simple enough
> language that if anyone that wanted to learn about the brake system they
> could.
>
> There' a bunch about the electrical system that I'll be studying as I am
> Electrically Challenged!
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Charles Aulgur
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 12:11 PM
> To: GMCnet
> Subject: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK
>
> Rob M.
>
> I want to thank you for the list of URKs you posted lately. It has
> been raining in San Diego for the last several days. The rain gauge
> overran yesterday so I had to empty it and today it is almost to 4
> inches. Since I'm trapped indoors and needed something to keep me
> occupied I downloaded the 8 or so URLs you posted about brakes
> published by Toyota. They were apparently developed for training
> aids for their employes and have quite a lot of details. The one I
> found most interesting was the one on vacuum boosters. I think I now
> understand how they work. There is a small round piece of rubber
> about the size of a quarter between the vacuum booster mechanism and
> where it pushes on the MC push-rod. All they do to sensitize a
> vacuum booster is change that little disc of rubber to one of
> different density. The big coast of getting one sensitized is all
> the other rubber parts they change. Another one of the articles is
> how a disc brake caliper with a parking brake mechanism works. The
> cross-section drawings look just like the Cad calipers I have on my
> rear two wheels. Now if I just knew how much load I can apply to
> them with my new air shock actuated parking brake without breaking them.
>
> Thanks, Chuck
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK [message #109360 is a reply to message #109355] |
Tue, 21 December 2010 22:09 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
I read the blurb so don't bother quoting it back to me but I wonder if this
puppy would do anything for our brakes?
http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Tom Eckert
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 2:56 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK
Charles,
As long as you are trying to stay dry you may consider taking a look at this
web site. I am told by some first hand experienced friends that these guys
really know their stuff about brakes and braking systems. They also have a
toll free number and take the time to answer questions and discuss one on
one brake systems Beyond my comprehension,
http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/
Tom Eckert N2VWN
73 Glacier
Oakland.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK [message #109368 is a reply to message #109360] |
Tue, 21 December 2010 22:52 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
I don't think it offers anything for us. The description and the
photo seem to indicate it's merely a large diameter piston pushing a
smaller one. The result is exactly the same as using a smaller bore
MC -- with the attendant capacity problems when using larger wheels
cylinders or calipers.
Notice their comment, "The BPM uses the excess fluid capacity
available in the master cylinder bore". We don't have that excess
fluid capacity.
Ken H.
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 11:09 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> G'day,
>
> I read the blurb so don't bother quoting it back to me but I wonder if this
> puppy would do anything for our brakes?
>
> http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK [message #109376 is a reply to message #109368] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 01:40 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
I saw that but thought since I'm using a P-30 master cylinder it might be
worth trying.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 3:52 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK
Rob,
I don't think it offers anything for us. The description and the
photo seem to indicate it's merely a large diameter piston pushing a
smaller one. The result is exactly the same as using a smaller bore
MC -- with the attendant capacity problems when using larger wheels
cylinders or calipers.
Notice their comment, "The BPM uses the excess fluid capacity
available in the master cylinder bore". We don't have that excess
fluid capacity.
Ken H.
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http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK [message #109383 is a reply to message #109360] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 05:36 |
gmcrv1
Messages: 839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Memphis
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
Ken,
Thanks for taking a look. As I mentioned, several guys I know have used
their services and all are happy with their brake systems. I thought if
there was enough interest it would be worth contacting them. After all, if
they take the time and will build a system for one street rod at a time,
surely they would help in designing a system for us - where they potentially
could sell a considerable amount of systems.
Rob, what do you think about a newly designed system from these guys?
Perhaps they would re-design the OEM system with front dics and rear drums -
or something completely different. Also, they would provide some purely
objective advice. And no emotions favoring once system vs. another.
Thanks for taking the time to look.
Tom Eckert N2VWN
73 Glacier
Oakland, TN
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:09 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> G'day,
>
> I read the blurb so don't bother quoting it back to me but I wonder if this
> puppy would do anything for our brakes?
>
> http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Tom Eckert
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 2:56 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK
>
> Charles,
>
> As long as you are trying to stay dry you may consider taking a look at
> this
> web site. I am told by some first hand experienced friends that these guys
> really know their stuff about brakes and braking systems. They also have a
> toll free number and take the time to answer questions and discuss one on
> one brake systems Beyond my comprehension,
>
> http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/
>
> Tom Eckert N2VWN
> 73 Glacier
> Oakland.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK [message #109385 is a reply to message #109383] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 07:03 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Tom,
I think we've got a fair few options for brake system components on our
GMC's which from memory are (if I've missed any PLEASE add them):
Boosters:
Standard
Sensitized
Powerboost
Hydraboost
Master Cylinders:
P-30 (for GMC's with rear disk brakes)
Front Brakes:
80mm calipers
Hubler front end w/larger disks
Rear Drum Brakes:
Different size middle and rear wheel cylinders
Carbon metallic brake shoes
Wider brake shoes
Disk:
Carbon Metallic Brake Pads
Yellow (Kevlar) Brake Pads
TSM disk brake kit
Caddy disk brakes
Leigh Harrison's 12" middle brake rotors
Jim K's disk brakes
Jim K's reaction arm system
Don't know what they could come up with that doesn't already exist and in
operation on someone's coach.
HOWEVER, they're in Vernon, CT which is east of Hartford and maybe someone
who lives close and has a GMC could go visit them and have a chat about the
brakes on the GMC.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Tom Eckert
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:36 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK
Rob,
Ken,
Thanks for taking a look. As I mentioned, several guys I know have used
their services and all are happy with their brake systems. I thought if
there was enough interest it would be worth contacting them. After all, if
they take the time and will build a system for one street rod at a time,
surely they would help in designing a system for us - where they potentially
could sell a considerable amount of systems.
Rob, what do you think about a newly designed system from these guys?
Perhaps they would re-design the OEM system with front dics and rear drums -
or something completely different. Also, they would provide some purely
objective advice. And no emotions favoring once system vs. another.
Thanks for taking the time to look.
Tom Eckert N2VWN
73 Glacier
Oakland, TN
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:09 PM, Rob Mueller
<robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> G'day,
>
> I read the blurb so don't bother quoting it back to me but I wonder if
this
> puppy would do anything for our brakes?
>
> http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Tom Eckert
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 2:56 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK
>
> Charles,
>
> As long as you are trying to stay dry you may consider taking a look at
> this
> web site. I am told by some first hand experienced friends that these
guys
> really know their stuff about brakes and braking systems. They also have
a
> toll free number and take the time to answer questions and discuss one on
> one brake systems Beyond my comprehension,
>
> http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/
>
> Tom Eckert N2VWN
> 73 Glacier
> Oakland.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK [message #109391 is a reply to message #109343] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 07:45 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Since I'm trapped indoors and needed something to keep me
occupied I downloaded the 8 or so URLs you posted about brakes
published by Toyota. They were apparently developed for training
aids for their employes and have quite a lot of details. ""
Chuck, I think the majority of what we are discussing here is more about suspension design than just brakes themselves. This is bringing back a lot of memories from my chassis design and vehicle development years. I have no doubt you nailed the issue with the trailing arm design and its interaction with the rest of the vehicle dynamics issues. Maybe enough of my lost brain cells will wake up enough to think about it more.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK [message #109402 is a reply to message #109401] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 09:08 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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oops forgot the link
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 7:05 AM, Mr.erf ERFisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Master Cylinders:
>> P-30 (for GMC's with rear disk brakes)
>>
>> not so,
>
> if you stay with 70mm all the way around, you still have all-wheel disk
> brakes and 300 lb more pressure and 1/3 (2,000#)more clamping force, using
> a standard master cyl.
>
http://gmcmotorhome.info/brakes.html#calc
>
> gene
>
>
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK [message #109449 is a reply to message #109385] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 15:03 |
gmcrv1
Messages: 839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Memphis
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
After seeing your summary - you may be right!
Tom Eckert N2VWN
73 Glacier
Oakland, TN
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 7:03 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> Tom,
>
> I think we've got a fair few options for brake system components on our
> GMC's which from memory are (if I've missed any PLEASE add them):
>
> Boosters:
> Standard
> Sensitized
> Powerboost
> Hydraboost
>
> Master Cylinders:
> P-30 (for GMC's with rear disk brakes)
>
> Front Brakes:
> 80mm calipers
> Hubler front end w/larger disks
>
> Rear Drum Brakes:
> Different size middle and rear wheel cylinders
> Carbon metallic brake shoes
> Wider brake shoes
>
> Disk:
> Carbon Metallic Brake Pads
> Yellow (Kevlar) Brake Pads
> TSM disk brake kit
> Caddy disk brakes
> Leigh Harrison's 12" middle brake rotors
> Jim K's disk brakes
> Jim K's reaction arm system
>
> Don't know what they could come up with that doesn't already exist and in
> operation on someone's coach.
>
> HOWEVER, they're in Vernon, CT which is east of Hartford and maybe someone
> who lives close and has a GMC could go visit them and have a chat about the
> brakes on the GMC.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Tom Eckert
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:36 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK
>
> Rob,
> Ken,
>
> Thanks for taking a look. As I mentioned, several guys I know have used
> their services and all are happy with their brake systems. I thought if
> there was enough interest it would be worth contacting them. After all, if
> they take the time and will build a system for one street rod at a time,
> surely they would help in designing a system for us - where they
> potentially
> could sell a considerable amount of systems.
>
> Rob, what do you think about a newly designed system from these guys?
>
> Perhaps they would re-design the OEM system with front dics and rear drums
> -
> or something completely different. Also, they would provide some purely
> objective advice. And no emotions favoring once system vs. another.
>
> Thanks for taking the time to look.
>
> Tom Eckert N2VWN
> 73 Glacier
> Oakland, TN
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:09 PM, Rob Mueller
> <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
>
> > G'day,
> >
> > I read the blurb so don't bother quoting it back to me but I wonder if
> this
> > puppy would do anything for our brakes?
> >
> > http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html
>
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rob M.
> > USAussie - Downunder
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> > [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Tom Eckert
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 2:56 PM
> > To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK
> >
> > Charles,
> >
> > As long as you are trying to stay dry you may consider taking a look at
> > this
> > web site. I am told by some first hand experienced friends that these
> guys
> > really know their stuff about brakes and braking systems. They also have
> a
> > toll free number and take the time to answer questions and discuss one on
> > one brake systems Beyond my comprehension,
> >
> > http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/
> >
> > Tom Eckert N2VWN
> > 73 Glacier
> > Oakland.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK [message #109468 is a reply to message #109401] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 16:54 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
|
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Gene,
Thanks! I read/was told that you had to change to a P-30 if you went to six
wheel Caddy disk brakes because the OEM Master Cylinder wouldn't put out
enough volume and it was possible to run out of stroke.
Is that information incorrect?
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Mr.erf ERFisher
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 2:05 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK
>
> Master Cylinders:
> P-30 (for GMC's with rear disk brakes)
>
> not so,
if you stay with 70mm all the way around, you still have all-wheel disk
brakes and 300 lb more pressure and 1/3 (2,000#)more clamping force, using
a standard master cyl.
gene
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK [message #109476 is a reply to message #109449] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 17:14 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Tom,
Of course I'm right, I was only wrong once and that was when I thought I was
wrong! ;-)
Sorry just couldn't resist that old one!
All the best,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Tom Eckert
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 8:04 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK
Rob,
After seeing your summary - you may be right!
Tom Eckert N2VWN
73 Glacier
Oakland, TN
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK [message #109479 is a reply to message #109468] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 17:37 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Rob, when you go to the 80mm front calipers and the discs on all four rear
wheels, then the extra volume in the P-30 resevoirs is needed. I think if
you retain the original front calipers and just one disc setup on the rear,
that the original MC will suffice.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> Gene,
>
> Thanks! I read/was told that you had to change to a P-30 if you went to six
> wheel Caddy disk brakes because the OEM Master Cylinder wouldn't put out
> enough volume and it was possible to run out of stroke.
>
> Is that information incorrect?
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Mr.erf ERFisher
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 2:05 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK
>
> >
> > Master Cylinders:
> > P-30 (for GMC's with rear disk brakes)
> >
> > not so,
>
> if you stay with 70mm all the way around, you still have all-wheel disk
> brakes and 300 lb more pressure and 1/3 (2,000#)more clamping force,
> using
> a standard master cyl.
>
> gene
>
>
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK [message #109483 is a reply to message #109479] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 18:12 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
This may sound stupid but I'm not sure what size of calipers I have on
Double Trouble and since it's about 10,000 miles away I can't look!
I do know that they use a banjo fitting and when I fitted rebuilt ones to
the front at Jim B's shop I had to grind down "casting marks" as Jim K notes
on his website:
http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/949
So it is reasonable to assume they are 80mm.
Next summer after I install the new rear drums, carbon metallic brake shoes,
and spring kit I'll run some stopping tests and for the hell of it I might
remove the P-30 and install an OEM master cylinder and run some more tests.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of James Hupy
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 10:37 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK
Rob, when you go to the 80mm front calipers and the discs on all four rear
wheels, then the extra volume in the P-30 resevoirs is needed. I think if
you retain the original front calipers and just one disc setup on the rear,
that the original MC will suffice.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK [message #109486 is a reply to message #109479] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 18:25 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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You can have 6 wheel disks if all are 70 read the specs
Gene
On Dec 22, 2010, at 3:37 PM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rob, when you go to the 80mm front calipers and the discs on all four rear
> wheels, then the extra volume in the P-30 resevoirs is needed. I think if
> you retain the original front calipers and just one disc setup on the rear,
> that the original MC will suffice.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC Royale 403
>
> On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
>
>> Gene,
>>
>> Thanks! I read/was told that you had to change to a P-30 if you went to six
>> wheel Caddy disk brakes because the OEM Master Cylinder wouldn't put out
>> enough volume and it was possible to run out of stroke.
>>
>> Is that information incorrect?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>> USAussie - Downunder
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
>> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Mr.erf ERFisher
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 2:05 AM
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK
>>
>>>
>>> Master Cylinders:
>>> P-30 (for GMC's with rear disk brakes)
>>>
>>> not so,
>>
>> if you stay with 70mm all the way around, you still have all-wheel disk
>> brakes and 300 lb more pressure and 1/3 (2,000#)more clamping force,
>> using
>> a standard master cyl.
>>
>> gene
>>
>>
>> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
>> "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
>> -------
>> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
>> Alternator Protection Cable
>> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK [message #109516 is a reply to message #109449] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 21:40 |
78 Barbi
Messages: 80
Registered: August 2004
Location: Tiverton, Ontario , Canad...
Karma: -1
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Member |
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GMC OEM MASTER CYLINDER
Gentlemen, Upon installing the 66 mm HBA parkbrake caliper ( Kelsey Hayes ) on the trailing wheel set of our 23 foot Birchaven; I had discussed master cylinder requirements at length with Paul Lambke and Dave Mumert . The general consensus was that it was kind of a shame to upgrade the calipers and rotors and then install a P-30 MC and subsequently wind up with 20 % less braking effectiveness than before I began the project.
I have the 80 mm calipers on the front of the coach and removed the 80 mm calipers that I had on the intermediate wheel set that I installed a couple of years ago. I installed a new set of 70 mm calipers ( ie. Front OEM) these calipers are actually 74.6mm piston diameter. Why aren’t they called 75 mm ??? , and removed the rear most drums and installed a pair of the 66 mm Kelsey Hayes parkbrake calipers. The paint dried on them between home and DeQuoin , Il. There appears to be no problem with the OEM master cylinder. I would consider going to a MC that has the same bore as the OEM but a larger fluid volume , Does anyone know what this master cylinder is called ?
After returning home from the fall rally , I built a couple of inclinometers for our car and set out to find some steep inclines . Found 4 prospective ones and calibrated the inclinometers on a dead level surface and set out to measure the slope of the hills. Found they varied between 11% to 13.5 % , recorded the results and snapped some photos and returned home.
Disconnected the air supply to the actuator and capped the air supply, leaving the cylinder open to atmosphere. Took the GMC out to the hills and tested the parkbrake on each of the 4 hills in both forward and reverse modes. In each case the parkbrake held the coach stationary with about 7 out of 10 turns on the PB handle knob.. The lever was not easy to pull on but it could be done with one hand. The cable tension in the intermediate cable ranged between 175 to 190 pounds per side . Should one need an actuator a small boost cylinder could be incorporated into the distance mutiplier assembly at a modest cost, ie. Less than half of the cost of our current actuator.
Will post some photos of the tests on the Photo site shortly and a description on the test results. Oh ! Yes we removed the spring assembly at the front of the combo. Valve as per Ken Hendersons instructions .....Thanks Ken !
Thanks and regards to all.......Merry Christmas and God Bless !
Albert & Sheila Branscombe
Tiverton, ON , CAN
78 Birchaven ( Barbi )
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| Re: [GMCnet] HOW BRAKE SYSTEMS WORK [message #109518 is a reply to message #109516] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 22:00 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Al,
Sounds like you've about gotten the the parking brake problem solved.
I've been convinced for 4-5 years that something like that was the
only answer but didn't have your diligence in searching for the right
equipment. I guess now I'll be able to use that single-axle cable set
you made for me, huh? :-)
Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!
Ken H.
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:40 PM, Albert&Sheila Branscombe
<branscoa@bmts.com> wrote:
...Took the GMC out to the hills and tested the parkbrake on each of
the 4 hills in both forward and reverse modes. In each case the
parkbrake held the coach stationary with about 7 out of 10 turns on
the PB handle knob.. The lever was not easy to pull on but it could
be done with one hand. The cable tension in the intermediate cable
ranged between 175 to 190 pounds per side . Should one need an
actuator a small boost cylinder could be incorporated into the
distance mutiplier assembly at a modest cost, ie. Less than half of
the cost of our current actuator.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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