Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils
| Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109302] |
Tue, 21 December 2010 14:07  |
Steve Stolley
Messages: 61
Registered: April 2008
Location: Ivins, Utah
Karma: 0
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Some time back Steve Ferguson posted on the forum about the Jim Stark presentation and GMCWS in Vegas in which it was suggested that modern oils without ZDDP are safe to use in the GMC 455.
Given the hassles with tracking down oils that still contain ZDDP or paying for a ZDDP additive, are those who attended convinced enough to make the switch to modern oil?
I ask because it's time for an oil change and my Costco no longer stocks Mobil 1 15W-50, but does have 3 x 1 gallon Delo 400 LE 15W-40 for $39. While the Delo box has API CJ-4 in big bold letters, it's also approved for API CI-4 PLUS.
What's the consensus?
Steve Stolley
76 Glenbrook
Ivins, Utah
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| Re: Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109317 is a reply to message #109302] |
Tue, 21 December 2010 16:17  |
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If you guys are still worried about Zinc then run Royal purple, RP kept its SL certification and still has ZDDP in their oil. RP is a bit oricy but its great stuff...
73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
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| Re: Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109321 is a reply to message #109309] |
Tue, 21 December 2010 16:29 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Harry wrote on Tue, 21 December 2010 13:52 |
Until all the fuss here about ZDDP, I was using any oil in all my old vehicles. Nothing has happened to them, they continue to run normally. I think I will carry on doing the same.
I believe you need ZDDP on rebuilt engines for the break-in period.
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From what I've been able to tell, the ZDDP issue was one of camshaft break-in on new or rebuilt engines with flat tappets. I have never found any evidence to the contrary and have never paid any attention to it. I have used all types of oil in my engine under the harshest conditions. But that's my preference and I certainly don't criticize others who feel more strongly about the ZDDP issue since it is easily addressed in various manners.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109344 is a reply to message #109326] |
Tue, 21 December 2010 19:17 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Tue, 21 December 2010 16:51 |
Shan,
I have oil consumption issues with Double Trouble that appear to be speed
related. I use Shell Rotella T 15-40W and if I drove 55 - 60 the consumption
was nil. If I raised the speed up to 70 the oil consumption went up
significantly. I don't have any specific figures as all I'd do is fill it up
to the dipstick line and no I haven't calibrated the dip stick.
I wanted to switch over to synthetic oil to see if that made a difference. I
had a chat with the local NAPA manager in Humble. He suggested I consider
using single viscosity oil and noted that Royal Purple (and one other
company that I can't remember) made single viscosity synthetic oil. RP goes
all the way up to SAE 50. I decided to go with SAE 40 for Double Trouble
which I put in before I left the USA. Stay tuned to this channel and you'll
find out what happens NEXT SUMMER!
Pricey is right - list was over $9 a quart but because of all the parts John
Sharpe and I buy from this store he sold it to me for around $7.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Shan Rose
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 9:18 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils
If you guys are still worried about Zinc then run Royal purple, RP kept its
SL certfication and still has ZDDP in their oil. RP is a bit oricy but its
great stuff...
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you are aware that it takes some time for all the oil to run back to the pan so when you stop for gas your oil will always read low for about 20 minutes.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109353 is a reply to message #109347] |
Tue, 21 December 2010 21:45 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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Rob, I'd respectfully suggest you continue
to check the oil at every fillup, but wait
to do the oil level checking routine until
AFTER you have filled the gas tank. That
SHOULD certainly allow virtually all of the
hot oil to drain down into the pan.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
----------------------------------------
> From: robmueller@iinet.net.au
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 13:12:31 +1100
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils
>
> Fred,
>
> Nope I wasn't aware of that!
>
> My oil checking routine is:
>
> Check it before we pull out in the mornings and top up if necessary and
> check it every time we fuel.
>
> My fueling routine is:
>
> Pull up to the pump.
> Shut off the GMC.
> Go out and put the fuel nozzle in the fuel filler.
> Open the driver side hood.
> Pull out the dipstick.
> Wipe it down.
> Reinsert the dipstick.
> Pull it out and check the level on both sides.
> Find it is low.
> Open the passenger side hood and get some oil out of the passenger side
> Ragusa tray.
> Remove the filler cap and pour oil in commensurate to the amount it's low.
> Check the oil level again.
> If it's close to full put the dipstick back in and put the oil back.
> Close the Passenger side hood.
> Close the Drivers side hood.
>
> This takes no more than 5-6 minutes so I'll bet that I have been overfilling
> the oil at gas stops and that's why I have been "burning" oil!
>
> I'll keep checking and topping in up in the mornings and stop checking it
> during the day when we fuel up!
>
> THANKS!
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of fred veenschoten
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 12:18 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils
>
> you are aware that it takes some time for all the oil to run back to the pan
> so when you stop for gas your oil will always read low for about 20 minutes.
>
> --
> Fred V
> '77 Royale RB 455
> P'cola, Fl
>
> _______________________________________________
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> List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109357 is a reply to message #109353] |
Tue, 21 December 2010 22:00 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Mac,
Good idea!
Will give it a go and see what happens.
Thanks,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of D C *Mac* Macdonald
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 2:45 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils
Rob, I'd respectfully suggest you continue
to check the oil at every fillup, but wait
to do the oil level checking routine until
AFTER you have filled the gas tank. That
SHOULD certainly allow virtually all of the
hot oil to drain down into the pan.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109367 is a reply to message #109321] |
Tue, 21 December 2010 22:44 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Bob,
Are you still using the MSO2 additive? Seems to me that should
ameliorate if not eliminate the ZDDP problems.
Ken H.
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@aol.com> wrote:
...>
> From what I've been able to tell, the ZDDP issue was one of camshaft break-in on new or rebuilt engines with flat tappets. I have never found any evidence to the contrary and have never paid any attention to it. I have used all types of oil in my engine under the harshest conditions. But that's my preference and I certainly don't criticize others who feel more strongly about the ZDDP issue since it is easily addressed in various manners.
> --
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109370 is a reply to message #109367] |
Tue, 21 December 2010 23:34 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Tue, 21 December 2010 22:44 |
Bob,
Are you still using the MSO2 additive? Seems to me that should
ameliorate if not eliminate the ZDDP problems.
Ken H.
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It sure will make the oil level much easier to read on the dip stick.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109378 is a reply to message #109326] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 02:33 |
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Robert, did you get the racing grade or standard grade of RP? I think you will like the results. RP's Racing grade oil has about 1/3rd more zddp additive in the oild for those hard and high lifting bumpsticks usually found in racing apps. If you are having oil consumption issues I suggest taking a look at the PCV valve if that bugger gets stuck open it will inhale oil through the valve cover in short order. I would put an oil seporator in the PCV line and see what it catches, I'd bet that's where you are loosing your oil!
As for getting RP on the cheap, consider ordering it in the 5 gallon pail. That will give u enough for about 4 changes plus top off. Also remember that the green beast out back loves RP too! So feeding it some would also make it happy. IIRC a pail of RP could be had for about 150 or so. Also EP can be run to about 6k miles so it has double or more the life of standard oil but do an oil test at blackstone to figuere out the best OCI for your rig...
| Robert Mueller wrote on Tue, 21 December 2010 16:51 |
Shan,
I have oil consumption issues with Double Trouble that appear to be speed
related. I use Shell Rotella T 15-40W and if I drove 55 - 60 the consumption
was nil. If I raised the speed up to 70 the oil consumption went up
significantly. I don't have any specific figures as all I'd do is fill it up
to the dipstick line and no I haven't calibrated the dip stick.
I wanted to switch over to synthetic oil to see if that made a difference. I
had a chat with the local NAPA manager in Humble. He suggested I consider
using single viscosity oil and noted that Royal Purple (and one other
company that I can't remember) made single viscosity synthetic oil. RP goes
all the way up to SAE 50. I decided to go with SAE 40 for Double Trouble
which I put in before I left the USA. Stay tuned to this channel and you'll
find out what happens NEXT SUMMER!
Pricey is right - list was over $9 a quart but because of all the parts John
Sharpe and I buy from this store he sold it to me for around $7.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Shan Rose
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 9:18 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils
If you guys are still worried about Zinc then run Royal purple, RP kept its
SL certfication and still has ZDDP in their oil. RP is a bit oricy but its
great stuff...
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109395 is a reply to message #109302] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 08:16 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Steve,
My stock of syn oil is running out and as it does, I have been switching
back to non-syn lubricants. Delo is an excellent choice for your GMC. I
changed oil in our Civic yesterday and zipped over to O'Reilly's for some
5W20 and checked out the price of M1. Man, that stuff has gone past the
point where I'm going to continue using it.
I have to put a lot of faith in a person who has spent his entire
professional career analyzing oil. He is an expert and has the credentials
to prove it.
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Stephen Stolley <sstolley9957@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>
> Some time back Steve Ferguson posted on the forum about the Jim Stark
> presentation and GMCWS in Vegas in which it was suggested that modern oils
> without ZDDP are safe to use in the GMC 455.
>
> Given the hassles with tracking down oils that still contain ZDDP or paying
> for a ZDDP additive, are those who attended convinced enough to make the
> switch to modern oil?
>
> I ask because it's time for an oil change and my Costco no longer stocks
> Mobil 1 15W-50, but does have 3 x 1 gallon Delo 400 LE 15W-40 for $39.
> While the Delo box has API CJ-4 in big bold letters, it's also approved for
> API CI-4 PLUS.
>
> What's the consensus?
> --
> Steve Stolley
> 76 Glenbrook
> Washington, Utah
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109405 is a reply to message #109367] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 09:25 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Tue, 21 December 2010 21:44 |
Bob,
Are you still using the MSO2 additive? Seems to me that should
ameliorate if not eliminate the ZDDP problems.
Ken H.
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@aol.com> wrote:
...>
> From what I've been able to tell, the ZDDP issue was one of camshaft break-in on new or rebuilt engines with flat tappets. I have never found any evidence to the contrary and have never paid any attention to it. I have used all types of oil in my engine under the harshest conditions. But that's my preference and I certainly don't criticize others who feel more strongly about the ZDDP issue since it is easily addressed in various manners.
> --
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I do Ken--I'm a big fan of it. I suspect the dynamics of what it does is different than ZDDP however and it possibly affects different components differently such as "scuffing" surfaces vs rolling surfaces etc. Each his own poison I suppose. It's great with Vodka as well--keeps the joints free 
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109406 is a reply to message #109370] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 09:26 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Burton wrote on Tue, 21 December 2010 22:34 |
| Ken Henderson wrote on Tue, 21 December 2010 22:44 |
Bob,
Are you still using the MSO2 additive? Seems to me that should
ameliorate if not eliminate the ZDDP problems.
Ken H.
|
It sure will make the oil level much easier to read on the dip stick.
|
Ha Ha--good point!
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109422 is a reply to message #109344] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 11:19 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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you are aware that it takes some time for all the oil to run back to the pan so when you stop for gas your oil will always read low for about 20 minutes.
Fred V
I have oil consumption issues with Double Trouble that appear to be speed
related. I use Shell Rotella T 15-40W and if I drove 55 - 60 the consumption
was nil. If I raised the speed up to 70 the oil consumption went up
significantly. I don't have any specific figures as all I'd do is fill it up
to the dipstick line and no I haven't calibrated the dip stick.
Robert Mueller
/////////////////////////////////////////
I am curious to the result of changing the oil dipstix change since Rob states the oil level seems normal when he travels at 55-60 mph and changes when he drives over that amount.
The oils are distributed at the 55-60 mph speed and if it were a drain back issue, it would seem he would see it when he checked it then as well.
This of course is if he is checking oil level every time at the same time when pulled into the station for refill.
Hopefully, checking the level a bit later will see less oil use, that is the easy fix, I think.
Just thinking it curious that only 5mph more can make that much of a difference.
Could the rings be disrupted that much with that little change in motion/force?????
Could a vibration due to friction cause this and might an additive correct the friction?
Just my thoughts
Gatsbys' CRUISER  08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
_
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109427 is a reply to message #109422] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 11:46 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Perhaps it is a result of the additional thermal load placed on the oil at
higher speeds and loads. The result will likely be further thinning of
lubricants and a faster pour rate which would affect how well the oil stays
put on the dipstick. Many dipsticks have a crosshatch pattern similar to a
double cut file for that reason also. Someone mentioned here that they media
blasted the end of the dipstick. That would probably have the same effect as
the crosshatch. In my old VW double cab transporter the dipstick would get
so hot that it would burn your hand and it was impossible to get an accurate
reading when it was that hot. That was a straight in dipstick and was very
short, not being drawn out through a long tube with multiple bends in it
like the GMC. In any event, morning walkarounds before taking to the road
should include opening the hatch cover to check for critter nests under
construction on top of the exhaust crossover under the air cleaner, fuel
leaks or oil leaks, fan belt tension & condition, coolant level, AT fluid
level, tire pressures, lights, turn signals, tow hitch & tow bars, leaks in
grey & black tanks, as well as engine oil level when cold. This whole
process shouldn't take more than 10 minutes or so. These things are 35 years
old and need frequent attention to insure reliable operation. An ounce of
prevention is worth a pound of cure, someone once told me.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Royale 403
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Larry <slawrence111@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> you are aware that it takes some time for all the oil to run back to the
> pan so when you stop for gas your oil will always read low for about 20
> minutes.
>
> Fred V
>
>
>
> I have oil consumption issues with Double Trouble that appear to be speed
> related. I use Shell Rotella T 15-40W and if I drove 55 - 60 the
> consumption
> was nil. If I raised the speed up to 70 the oil consumption went up
> significantly. I don't have any specific figures as all I'd do is fill it
> up
> to the dipstick line and no I haven't calibrated the dip stick.
>
> Robert Mueller
>
> /////////////////////////////////////////
>
> I am curious to the result of changing the oil dipstix change since Rob
> states the oil level seems normal when he travels at 55-60 mph and changes
> when he drives over that amount.
>
> The oils are distributed at the 55-60 mph speed and if it were a drain back
> issue, it would seem he would see it when he checked it then as well.
>
> This of course is if he is checking oil level every time at the same time
> when pulled into the station for refill.
>
> Hopefully, checking the level a bit later will see less oil use, that is
> the easy fix, I think.
>
> Just thinking it curious that only 5mph more can make that much of a
> difference.
>
> Could the rings be disrupted that much with that little change in
> motion/force?????
>
> Could a vibration due to friction cause this and might an additive correct
> the friction?
>
> Just my thoughts
>
>
> --
> Gatsbys' CRUISER :d
> 74 GLACIER X, 260
> 455/APC/4 bagg'r(ver3)
> Remflex Manifold gaskets
> _______________________________________________
> Purchased 08-18-04
>
> _
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109432 is a reply to message #109395] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 12:09 |
Steve Stolley
Messages: 61
Registered: April 2008
Location: Ivins, Utah
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Thanks Steve! I was hoping either you or someone who was at the GMCWS tech presentation would eventually comment on my original question. After seeing the thread heading in an opposite, although parallel direction, I called Blackstone and spoke with Ryan Stark. He now runs things as Jim is "retired". He told me that the no-ash aircraft oil (e.g. no additives what-so-ever) testing continues in his flat tappet engined truck without incident or damage. He also said that everyone who works there buys and uses the cheapest non-sythetic oil they can find on sale no matter what the vehicle and have no brand preference other then the apppropriate grade per the manufacturer. The frequency of their oil changes is entirely usage specific.
Based on your comment and my discussion with Ryan, I'll be using the Delo 15W-40 dino oil.
Steve Stolley
76 Glenbrook
Ivins, Utah
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109438 is a reply to message #109432] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 13:34 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Steve Stolley wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 13:09 |
Thanks Steve! I was hoping either you or someone who was at the GMCWS tech presentation would eventually comment on my original question. After seeing the thread heading in an opposite, although parallel direction, I called Blackstone and spoke with Ryan Stark. He now runs things as Jim is "retired". He told me that the no-ash aircraft oil (e.g. no additives what-so-ever) testing continues in his flat tappet engined truck without incident or damage. He also said that everyone who works there buys and uses the cheapest non-synthetic oil they can find on sale no matter what the vehicle and have no brand preference other then the appropriate grade per the manufacturer. The frequency of their oil changes is entirely usage specific.
Based on your comment and my discussion with Ryan, I'll be using the Delo 15W-40 dino oil.
|
Steve,
It is your engine to do as you wish.
There is a lot of known truth in your and the previous Steve. But, there are other facts not addressed at all.
Passcar service is very much different than motorhome, real truck or marine. The last three invite being run at very high MAP (load) for extended periods. This is not particularly tough on the lube oil as a lubricant per se.
The problem is two fold in our coaches.
First is use. Most of these coaches get run hard (compared to a passcar) and this can cause the lubricating oil to get broken down if it is EVER exposed a temperature in excess of 305*F. This is not a time/temperature problem. If the oil molecule gets to 305, it comes apart into pieces that have no lubrication properties.
Second is disuse. The combustion by-products (blow-by that every engine has and is worse with increasing MAP) are collected in the crankcase and necessarily accumulated in the lubricating oil. Many of the constituents of the combustion blow-by are corrosive and very chemically active and attack both the additive package and the oil itself.
The time that this contamination seems to become most serious in a dino oil is in the region of six months - running or not .
Synthetic lubricants are less susceptible to this damage. I never got a read on how much less as the longest test I could run was one year, but that was still good.
So, if you are going to run a dino oil, just be ready to change it out every six months. Also be certain that it does not get overheated. This is not all bad. Remember though, this is not an average temperature that an instrument will read. If the oil cooling the piston crowns gets too hot - ever - it will be damaged and then contribute to the contamination.
As to ZDDP and cam wear, this is known to be primarily a break-in issue that can be largely eliminated by the use of a good application of the right coating at build.
Me, I've been using MoS2 for forty years and have only lost one engine in that time and that was not to lubrication. I am currently replacing the trans in a vehicle universally know to be and 80K engine, but this one is at 165 and has just begun to need an oil addition and that is due to a rear main seal that I will replace while the trans is down.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109469 is a reply to message #109422] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 16:54 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
I went to SAE 40 Royal Purple because I think it is an oil consumption issue
related to engine speed and going to a single viscosity oil might help. This
may be wishful thinking but I had a chat with the manager of the NAPA store
where I bought the oil and the Royal Purple customer service engineer and
the consensus that it would be worth a try to see what happens. If it didn't
help it was an engine / ring / valve guide issue.
The engine in Double Trouble was rebuilt by Ken Frey about 50,000 miles ago,
had no sludge in the valve covers when I replaced the gaskets, no sludge in
lifter valley just the "normal" burnt on crud when I swapped over to the
aluminum manifold, and virtually none in the crankcase when I replaced the
single drain oil pan with the dual drain.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 4:19 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils
you are aware that it takes some time for all the oil to run back to the pan
so when you stop for gas your oil will always read low for about 20 minutes.
Fred V
I have oil consumption issues with Double Trouble that appear to be speed
related. I use Shell Rotella T 15-40W and if I drove 55 - 60 the consumption
was nil. If I raised the speed up to 70 the oil consumption went up
significantly. I don't have any specific figures as all I'd do is fill it up
to the dipstick line and no I haven't calibrated the dip stick.
Robert Mueller
/////////////////////////////////////////
I am curious to the result of changing the oil dipstix change since Rob
states the oil level seems normal when he travels at 55-60 mph and changes
when he drives over that amount.
The oils are distributed at the 55-60 mph speed and if it were a drain back
issue, it would seem he would see it when he checked it then as well.
This of course is if he is checking oil level every time at the same time
when pulled into the station for refill.
Hopefully, checking the level a bit later will see less oil use, that is the
easy fix, I think.
Just thinking it curious that only 5mph more can make that much of a
difference.
Could the rings be disrupted that much with that little change in
motion/force?????
Could a vibration due to friction cause this and might an additive correct
the friction?
Just my thoughts
--
Gatsbys' CRUISER :d
74 GLACIER X, 260
455/APC/4 bagg'r(ver3)
Remflex Manifold gaskets
_______________________________________________
Purchased 08-18-04
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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