Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Winterizing the GMC
| Winterizing the GMC [message #105467] |
Mon, 08 November 2010 19:06  |
MikeT
Messages: 225
Registered: November 2009
Location: Marine City, Michigan
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Looking for some tips on the best way to winterize the GMC.
I do not have the water heater bypass valves so I guess it will take a minimum of 6 gallons of the red RV antifreeze. Do I just empty the fresh water tank, dump in the RV antifreeze and pump away through all the faucets and toilet.
Any and all tips appreciated.
Thanks
Mike Thomas
Marine City, MI
77 ex Palm Beach
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| Re: Winterizing the GMC [message #105472 is a reply to message #105467] |
Mon, 08 November 2010 19:59  |
rwbmitiopt@comcast.net
Messages: 189
Registered: April 2005
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Here is a link to a pretty proven method, http://gmcmotorhome.info/WINTER.html
Randall
| MikeT wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 17:06 |
Looking for some tips on the best way to winterize the GMC.
I do not have the water heater bypass valves so I guess it will take a minimum of 6 gallons of the red RV antifreeze. Do I just empty the fresh water tank, dump in the RV antifreeze and pump away through all the faucets and toilet.
Any and all tips appreciated.
Thanks
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Randall Burns
Sammamish WA
75 EX GB
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| Re: Winterizing the GMC [message #105474 is a reply to message #105467] |
Mon, 08 November 2010 20:16 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| MikeT wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 17:06 |
Looking for some tips on the best way to winterize the GMC.
I do not have the water heater bypass valves so I guess it will take a minimum of 6 gallons of the red RV antifreeze. ...
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For the price of the 6 gallons of anti-freeze, you can buy a by-pass. Less than a one year return on investment. (You'll be saving money every time after the first time you use it.)
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: Winterizing the GMC [message #105479 is a reply to message #105467] |
Mon, 08 November 2010 20:49 |
pzerkel
Messages: 212
Registered: September 2007
Location: Salisbury, IL
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My el-cheapo water heater bypass...
I just bought one of those flexible faucet hoses and a couple of plumbing fittings to hook it up. (If you could find a hose with two 1/2" male NPT ends you would not need the fittings). Remove the lines from the water heater and connect the cold "in" line to the hot "out" line to do the bypass.
But as already said the bypass kit would be less $$$ than 6 gallons of antifreeze.
Paul Zerkel
'78 Eleganza II
Salisbury IL (near Springfield)
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| Re: Winterizing the GMC [message #105484 is a reply to message #105467] |
Mon, 08 November 2010 20:58 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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If you were lucky you could do it the way I do just park it in your heated garage. Sorry that was the first thing that popped into my head.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: Winterizing the GMC [message #105514 is a reply to message #105467] |
Tue, 09 November 2010 07:41 |
Rick Williams
Messages: 256
Registered: July 2004
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My coach had a split in the holding tank dump pipe because of a leaking dump valve and the fact that the PO had not emptied it completely. Make sure the tanks and the dump pipes are empty. I pour a gallon of antifreeze down the toilet and pump it out with the macerator. I don't want liquid to freeze in the macerator.
Rick
Rick Williams
Bliss, Michigan
1978 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing the GMC [message #105684 is a reply to message #105538] |
Thu, 11 November 2010 12:15 |
Jim Miller
Messages: 501
Registered: March 2008
Karma: 10
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Just to stir the pot, here's an observation that I made with regard to
winterizing.
I did not have a hot water heater bypass system installed last year
when I winterized. I had gone to wally world and bought eight gallons
of the pink/red name-brand RV antifreeze they were selling for around
$3-4/gallon. I dumped it into the fresh water tank and pumped it
through until it appeared at all hot and cold faucets and at the
showerhead and toilet.
Not wanting to lose the six gallons of it that went into the hot water
tank, I attached a hose to the tank's drain in the wheelwell and
refilled six of the jugs thinking that I would just use it again the
following year, perhaps in the drain traps and holding tank.
Two weeks ago I got those six jugs out of my garage and every one of
them had some amount of black mold growing in the liquid. Not above
the liquid line, mind you - it was UNDER the liquid stuck to the sides
and bottom of the jug.
I'm not a microbiologist but this tells me that there is an organism
that can survive - and thrive - in a propylene glycol-based growth
media. The six jugs had been in storage for a year, but I wonder if
this growth could start to occur in the GMC's lines over the winter if
the lines are left full?
This year I modified my winterization process a little: I installed a
HW tank bypass kit, pumped NEW pink antifreeze throughout the system,
and then blew it all out with compressed air, keeping the air blowing
through both the hot and cold lines for a minute or two each in order
to try and get as much of the pink stuff out as possible.
Next spring the system is going to get a good flush and then a couple
rounds of sanitizing solution through it just in case any of this
mystery organism tries to grow over the winter. Granted, I do not use
the GMC's water system for potable water but nonetheless I don't want
any mold growing in my lines.
--Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, Ohio
On Nov 9, 2010, at 2:40 PM, Jim Galbavy wrote:
> I too now have the water heater bypass. ....but before I did (and
> the drain valve for my water tank was stuck open) I used to pump out
> as much water from the system as I could. Once the pump would
> flutter, I would pour antifreeze into the water tank and pump it
> from the water tank thru the cold and hot water lines until pink
> would come out of all of the faucets and toilet and then into the
> black tank. Once that is done, using a handpump (that you can get at
> any RV store) pump antifreeze thru the city water connection. With
> all of the water lines full of antifreeze leave all of the faucets
> open for expansion if the temperatures get too cold. Worked for me
> for 4 years until I got the water tank drain valve fixed and a water
> heater bypass installed. If your drain valves work, drain the
> system down and then open the faucets one at a time starting with
> the closest faucet to the water tank clearing them with compressed
> air (20psi will do).
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Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing the GMC [message #105686 is a reply to message #105684] |
Thu, 11 November 2010 12:30 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Jim
It is likely that the growth didn't come from the propylene glycol but
that it came from your tank and water lines.
Even blowing out yours lines would not rid the lines of the organism.
It would still thrive in the damp lines The medium for growth is
probably the water in your system and the water that was entrained in
the propylene glychol solution that you pumped back into your bottles.
You should always disinfect your water system prior to a trip because
stagnant water in your system will always have some organisms in it.
You can put some bleach into the bottles that you have saved and
safely reuse it in the future.
Emery Stora
On Nov 11, 2010, at 11:15 AM, Jim Miller <gmcnet@jcmco.com> wrote:
> Just to stir the pot, here's an observation that I made with regard to
> winterizing.
>
> I did not have a hot water heater bypass system installed last year
> when I winterized. I had gone to wally world and bought eight gallons
> of the pink/red name-brand RV antifreeze they were selling for around
> $3-4/gallon. I dumped it into the fresh water tank and pumped it
> through until it appeared at all hot and cold faucets and at the
> showerhead and toilet.
>
> Not wanting to lose the six gallons of it that went into the hot water
> tank, I attached a hose to the tank's drain in the wheelwell and
> refilled six of the jugs thinking that I would just use it again the
> following year, perhaps in the drain traps and holding tank.
>
> Two weeks ago I got those six jugs out of my garage and every one of
> them had some amount of black mold growing in the liquid. Not above
> the liquid line, mind you - it was UNDER the liquid stuck to the sides
> and bottom of the jug.
>
> I'm not a microbiologist but this tells me that there is an organism
> that can survive - and thrive - in a propylene glycol-based growth
> media. The six jugs had been in storage for a year, but I wonder if
> this growth could start to occur in the GMC's lines over the winter if
> the lines are left full?
>
> This year I modified my winterization process a little: I installed a
> HW tank bypass kit, pumped NEW pink antifreeze throughout the system,
> and then blew it all out with compressed air, keeping the air blowing
> through both the hot and cold lines for a minute or two each in order
> to try and get as much of the pink stuff out as possible.
>
> Next spring the system is going to get a good flush and then a couple
> rounds of sanitizing solution through it just in case any of this
> mystery organism tries to grow over the winter. Granted, I do not use
> the GMC's water system for potable water but nonetheless I don't want
> any mold growing in my lines.
>
> --Jim Miller
> 1977 Eleganza II
> 1977 Royale
> Hamilton, Ohio
>
>
> On Nov 9, 2010, at 2:40 PM, Jim Galbavy wrote:
>
>> I too now have the water heater bypass. ....but before I did (and
>> the drain valve for my water tank was stuck open) I used to pump out
>> as much water from the system as I could. Once the pump would
>> flutter, I would pour antifreeze into the water tank and pump it
>> from the water tank thru the cold and hot water lines until pink
>> would come out of all of the faucets and toilet and then into the
>> black tank. Once that is done, using a handpump (that you can get at
>> any RV store) pump antifreeze thru the city water connection. With
>> all of the water lines full of antifreeze leave all of the faucets
>> open for expansion if the temperatures get too cold. Worked for me
>> for 4 years until I got the water tank drain valve fixed and a water
>> heater bypass installed. If your drain valves work, drain the
>> system down and then open the faucets one at a time starting with
>> the closest faucet to the water tank clearing them with compressed
>> air (20psi will do).
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: Winterizing the GMC [message #105688 is a reply to message #105467] |
Thu, 11 November 2010 12:51 |
Bob Horton
Messages: 81
Registered: December 2005
Location: Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
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I’ve been draining RV’s for winter on and off for 40 some years and have been fortunate to never have had any winter damage from lines freezing. I live in Manitoba which, with the possible exception of Siberia, is as cold as it gets anywhere.
After I drain my tanks I remove the spout from the kitchen sink and hook up a small, tankless,low-pressure oilless compressor. I stick a hose which just fits nicely into the spout hole and let the compressor run. Opening up the kitchen faucets one at a time I blow the air out of each hot and cold line by opening the bathroom, shower, and toilet valves. I just let it run as long as it takes to remove any trace of moisture from the lines.
Lastly I add a cup or so of plumbing antifreeze to each trap (don’t forget the one on the bathroom floor). and to the toilet. Leaving a quart or so in the holding tank is also a good idea.
A couple of handy things I learned off the web: Give a shot of air to the outside city water connection and lower the coach when draining the holding tank.
Years back I tried adding antifreeze to the water tank but it seemed to take forever to get the stuff out in the spring – and I have found that if you ensure that the last vestige of water is out of the system it’s not necessary.
Works for me
Bob Horton
75 Glenbrook
Brandon, Manitoba
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing the GMC [message #105689 is a reply to message #105686] |
Thu, 11 November 2010 13:06 |
Jim Miller
Messages: 501
Registered: March 2008
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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On Nov 11, 2010, at 1:30 PM, Emery Stora wrote:
> It is likely that the growth didn't come from the propylene glycol but
> that it came from your tank and water lines.
Hi Emery,
I agree completely that the organism came from my water lines or tank
rather than the factory-virgin product. What surprised me was that the
glycol solution would support the growth of an organism that may be
common in domestic water lines.
And given that, if it could grow in the stored jugs then it could just
as easily grow in the lines of the GMC over the winter.
> You should always disinfect your water system prior to a trip because
> stagnant water in your system will always have some organisms in it.
Do you have a preferred sanitizing solution?
> You can put some bleach into the bottles that you have saved and
> safely reuse it in the future.
I'm using the "bad" stuff in the drain traps - and now that I have my
hot water tank bypass installed I'm not worried about saving any in
the future.
Thanks again for your message.
--Jim
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing the GMC [message #105694 is a reply to message #105689] |
Thu, 11 November 2010 13:52 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
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On Nov 11, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
>> stagnant water in your system will always have some organisms in it.
>
> Do you have a preferred sanitizing solution?
>
Here is something that I had posted about 2-1/2 weeks ago:
>
> Hi Ray
>
> Do you have your GMC Operators Manual? In the 1976 Operators Manual on page 100 it says:
>
> Sanitizing Living Area Water System
>
> To help assure complete sanitization of your living area water system, it is recommended that the following procedures be followed on a new system, one that has not been used for a period of time, or one that may have become contaminated:
>
> 1. Prepare a chloride solution using one gallon of water and 1/4 cup of household bleach (5% sodium hypochlorite solution). Pour one gallon of solution into water tank for each 15 gallons of tank capacity.
>
> 2. Complete filling of water tank with fresh water. Open each faucet and drain cock until all air has been released from pipes and entire system is filled.
>
> 3. Allow to stand for three hours.
>
> 4.Drain and flush with potable (drinkable) fresh water.
>
> 5. To remove any excessive chlorine taste or odor which might remain, prepare a solution with one quart of vinegar to five gallons of water and allow this solution to agitate in tank for several days by vehicle motion.
>
> 6. Drain tank and again flush with potable water.
>
> I have found that one can just pour 1/2 cup of bleach into the tank fill spout and then fill with water. Filling will mix it well enough. Then open your faucets, etc. until you have flow through them. Do steps 3 and 4.
>
> I skip step 5 and just fill and drain my tank a couple of times and most of the chlorine odor will be gone.
>
> You don't have to drive it. Just do it while it is sitting in its parking spot.
>
> I do this prior to every trip.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing the GMC [message #105696 is a reply to message #105689] |
Thu, 11 November 2010 13:59 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
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On Nov 11, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
>
> On Nov 11, 2010, at 1:30 PM, Emery Stora wrote:
>
>> It is likely that the growth didn't come from the propylene glycol but
>> that it came from your tank and water lines.
>
> Hi Emery,
>
> I agree completely that the organism came from my water lines or tank
> rather than the factory-virgin product. What surprised me was that the
> glycol solution would support the growth of an organism that may be
> common in domestic water lines.
>
Proplylene glycol is non-toxic. It is also has FDA approval and is commonly used as a food additive in many commercial foods. It is used as a humectant and stabilizer in many prepared fruits, vegetables and bakery goods, Also as a emulsifier in many prepared foodstuffs.
Since it is non-toxic I am not at all surprised that an organism can easily grow in its solutions with water.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing the GMC [message #105698 is a reply to message #105696] |
Thu, 11 November 2010 14:31 |
Jim Miller
Messages: 501
Registered: March 2008
Karma: 10
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On Nov 11, 2010, at 2:59 PM, Emery Stora wrote:
> Proplylene glycol is non-toxic. It is also has FDA approval and is
> commonly used as a food additive in many commercial foods. It is
> used as a humectant and stabilizer in many prepared fruits,
> vegetables and bakery goods, Also as a emulsifier in many prepared
> foodstuffs.
In addition to all the food, pharmaceutical and cosmetic applications,
it also works well (diluted, of course) in the ground loop of
geothermal systems. I recently bought 500 gallons of it at $10/gallon
- that was technical/industrial grade; I can't imagine how much the
food/pharma grade stuff would cost!
Thanks again for your insight Emery.
--Jim
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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| Re: Winterizing the GMC [message #105723 is a reply to message #105467] |
Thu, 11 November 2010 18:33 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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I spent most of today trying to install a water heater bypass. Took me 3 hours this morning to undo what some PO had done just so I could simplify it. Then I spent most of the afternoon trying to get 1/2" to 3/4" fittings. I really need to learn to hit the plumbing supply houses since it seems that the big box stores have less and less of what I need in stock.
A simple project that, like everything in a GMC, got way more time consuming than it should be...
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: Winterizing the GMC [message #105774 is a reply to message #105723] |
Fri, 12 November 2010 10:08 |
stick miller
Messages: 1036
Registered: March 2010
Location: Americus, Georgia
Karma: 0
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OK - as Rob says, I'm mechanically challenged. I'm trying to understand the hot water bypass. Keep in mind I have a Royale with gas water heater.
There is a bypass gate valve which is inline under the hood. I thought that just kept hot water from circulating through the auto heater core during the summer.
I think you are talking about a valve that cuts the water heater out of the loop when it comes to radiator circulation. I guess my question is, Why? Wouldn't that circulating water have ethylene glycol from the automotive radiator?
Maybe I'm thinking about this all wrong and instead of hot water from the engine circulating around the tank, cold water from the water heater circulates through the engine.
Gotta be one of the two.
Help.
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
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| Re: Winterizing the GMC [message #105776 is a reply to message #105774] |
Fri, 12 November 2010 10:28 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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The water heater bypass is for winterizing the coach so you don't end up filling the hot water tank with anti-freeze. You drain the tank and then use the bypass to simply run the antifreeze through the water lines which saves several gallons of anti-freeze every year. The bypasses are cheap and they connect to the incoming cold line and the outgoing hot line with a ball valve that allows you to change the water direction from entering the tank on cold, filling the tank, and exiting on hot. Now it just goes cold line before the heater up the bypass line, to the hot line after water would normally exit the heater tank. It has nothing to do with the engine heat lines (although I have those blocked off as well since I didn't feel like re-doing the lines for my rarely used hot water heater...)
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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