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| [GMCnet] Howell/Edelbrock combo [message #105250] |
Sat, 06 November 2010 13:51  |
Gary Worobec
Messages: 867
Registered: May 2005
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Hi,
Is anyone using the Howell TBI with a 455 Edelbrock Performer manifold (Its the one they recommend for street/RV). If so, is the combo working/performance and how much did you need to raise your hatch? I have the Howell FI from the last group buy.(not installed yet)
Had to get towed home from near Qualcomm last Sunday after the Chargers game. Maybe a crack in the intake manifold. Started while in a long hot line at the stadium to get out then started dying. Thought it might be vapor lock but then when it all cooled down just major backfiring through the tailpipe and the carb. Managed to get a few miles. Changed the fuel filter at the Walmart parking lot, lots of fuel pressure. Just would start and run but at the touch of the throttle would die, then backfire. Then just would not run.
I had noticed just a slight decrease in vacuum on the Las Vegas rally trip but it all ran well however both runs to Las Vegas were in the cold and even the run down to Qualcomm was very early in the morning and cold but the engine ran great so maybe the crack opened up during the long idle period getting out of Qualcomm on Sunday.
Carb is off. It looks like a crack across the secondary drivers side intake running left to right. Very tough to tell. I'm committed to now putting the FI on. Need to decide on the manifold though. Price is not a real consideration. After hearing Mondello at Las Vegas when he said that in the stock manifold the gas goes down.....up.....and then back down maybe the Edelbrock makes sense/cents.
Any thoughts greatly welcome.
Thanks
Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
Anza, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell/Edelbrock combo [message #105256 is a reply to message #105250] |
Sat, 06 November 2010 14:28  |
Nelson Wright
Messages: 147
Registered: May 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gary,
I have an Offenhouser aluminum intake for a 455 if you are going to
have a doghouse.
Nelson Wright
407 435-6760
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 6, 2010, at 2:51 PM, "Gary Worobec" <gtw5@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> Is anyone using the Howell TBI with a 455 Edelbrock Performer
> manifold (Its the one they recommend for street/RV). If so, is the
> combo working/performance and how much did you need to raise your
> hatch? I have the Howell FI from the last group buy.(not installed
> yet)
>
> Had to get towed home from near Qualcomm last Sunday after the
> Chargers game. Maybe a crack in the intake manifold. Started while
> in a long hot line at the stadium to get out then started dying.
> Thought it might be vapor lock but then when it all cooled down just
> major backfiring through the tailpipe and the carb. Managed to get
> a few miles. Changed the fuel filter at the Walmart parking lot,
> lots of fuel pressure. Just would start and run but at the touch of
> the throttle would die, then backfire. Then just would not run.
>
> I had noticed just a slight decrease in vacuum on the Las Vegas
> rally trip but it all ran well however both runs to Las Vegas were
> in the cold and even the run down to Qualcomm was very early in the
> morning and cold but the engine ran great so maybe the crack opened
> up during the long idle period getting out of Qualcomm on Sunday.
>
> Carb is off. It looks like a crack across the secondary drivers side
> intake running left to right. Very tough to tell. I'm committed to
> now putting the FI on. Need to decide on the manifold though. Price
> is not a real consideration. After hearing Mondello at Las Vegas
> when he said that in the stock manifold the gas goes
> down.....up.....and then back down maybe the Edelbrock makes sense/
> cents.
>
> Any thoughts greatly welcome.
>
> Thanks
>
> Gary and Joanne Worobec
> 1973 GMC Glacier
> Anza, CA
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell/Edelbrock combo [message #105258 is a reply to message #105253] |
Sat, 06 November 2010 14:43 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Gil
I hope you welded or epoxied those iron plugs in the heads. I didn't a number of years ago and found when I pulled a head to fix a bent valve the iron plug had been rattling around in there and was really messing up the head and they were a tight fit to start with.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell/Edelbrock combo [message #105270 is a reply to message #105250] |
Sat, 06 November 2010 17:11 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Gary,
Having a high rise does improve the performance along with the 4
throat throttle body.
The great thing that works great is th MBL option we sell for the
Howell. It makes the computer learn as you drive.
When your ready I can quote some hot numbers for you.
On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Gary Worobec <gtw5@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> Is anyone using the Howell TBI with a 455 Edelbrock Performer manifold (Its the one they recommend for street/RV). If so, is the combo working/performance and how much did you need to raise your hatch? I have the Howell FI from the last group buy.(not installed yet)
>
> Had to get towed home from near Qualcomm last Sunday after the Chargers game. Maybe a crack in the intake manifold. Started while in a long hot line at the stadium to get out then started dying. Thought it might be vapor lock but then when it all cooled down just major backfiring through the tailpipe and the carb. Managed to get a few miles. Changed the fuel filter at the Walmart parking lot, lots of fuel pressure. Just would start and run but at the touch of the throttle would die, then backfire. Then just would not run.
>
> I had noticed just a slight decrease in vacuum on the Las Vegas rally trip but it all ran well however both runs to Las Vegas were in the cold and even the run down to Qualcomm was very early in the morning and cold but the engine ran great so maybe the crack opened up during the long idle period getting out of Qualcomm on Sunday.
>
> Carb is off. It looks like a crack across the secondary drivers side intake running left to right. Very tough to tell. I'm committed to now putting the FI on. Need to decide on the manifold though. Price is not a real consideration. After hearing Mondello at Las Vegas when he said that in the stock manifold the gas goes down.....up.....and then back down maybe the Edelbrock makes sense/cents.
>
> Any thoughts greatly welcome.
>
> Thanks
>
> Gary and Joanne Worobec
> 1973 GMC Glacier
> Anza, CA
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell/Edelbrock combo [message #105289 is a reply to message #105250] |
Sat, 06 November 2010 20:44 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Gary,
The Blue Streak in Australia has an Edelbrock Performer manifold with a
Holley Commander 950 four barrel FI system sitting on top of it. I can tell
you it goes (as we say Downunder) a shower of S%#T!
The hatch was raised about 5 inches to accommodate a round air cleaner.
When I was getting the parts together for the Caddy 500 that I'm shipping to
Australia to run on LPG Jerry Potter told me that the Performer manifold on
the Caddy you pickup 40 HP.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary Worobec
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 1:51 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Howell/Edelbrock combo
Hi,
Is anyone using the Howell TBI with a 455 Edelbrock Performer manifold (Its
the one they recommend for street/RV). If so, is the combo
working/performance and how much did you need to raise your hatch? I have
the Howell FI from the last group buy.(not installed yet)
Had to get towed home from near Qualcomm last Sunday after the Chargers
game. Maybe a crack in the intake manifold. Started while in a long hot line
at the stadium to get out then started dying. Thought it might be vapor lock
but then when it all cooled down just major backfiring through the tailpipe
and the carb. Managed to get a few miles. Changed the fuel filter at the
Walmart parking lot, lots of fuel pressure. Just would start and run but at
the touch of the throttle would die, then backfire. Then just would not run.
I had noticed just a slight decrease in vacuum on the Las Vegas rally trip
but it all ran well however both runs to Las Vegas were in the cold and even
the run down to Qualcomm was very early in the morning and cold but the
engine ran great so maybe the crack opened up during the long idle period
getting out of Qualcomm on Sunday.
Carb is off. It looks like a crack across the secondary drivers side intake
running left to right. Very tough to tell. I'm committed to now putting the
FI on. Need to decide on the manifold though. Price is not a real
consideration. After hearing Mondello at Las Vegas when he said that in the
stock manifold the gas goes down.....up.....and then back down maybe the
Edelbrock makes sense/cents.
Any thoughts greatly welcome.
Thanks
Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
Anza, CA
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell/Edelbrock combo [message #105292 is a reply to message #105289] |
Sat, 06 November 2010 20:49 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I came across this thread immediately after answering Gary's question on
GMCMH-EFI; here's an extract from that reply:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've had some experience with the Edelbrock Performer. My 455 was equipped
with one when I bought it in '98. Before I got the coach home, I totalled
the 59,000 mile engine. During the rebuild I discovered that the crossover
was cracked beneath the carburetor (crossover runner, not into the intake).
I had it welded up but it soon cracked again. Edelbrock advised that I HAD
to install iron plugs in the heads to block the crossover; they sent me some
for free. See the results at:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3057
I then poured the crossover and drove it that way until we got too tired of
the raised hatch. I then poured the crossover of an iron manifold and
installed it.
I've often been asked the performance difference between the OEM manifold
and the Edelbrock. My honest answer is, "...None below 4000 rpm...". I
stand by that.
NOTE: The Summit catalog has a note about the Olds Performer manifold to
the effect that the provided iron plugs MUST be used to preserve the
warranty. Right. See above. I know of several others with similar
experiences to mine, including one with ruptured water jacket, subsequent
hydraulic lock, and engine destruction.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe the hole through the plug helps; Edelbrock didn't tell me about that
in '99. I won't give them another chance.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell/Edelbrock combo [message #105293 is a reply to message #105288] |
Sat, 06 November 2010 20:58 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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No none at all. If I remember correctly Ken had a problem with the iron plugs causing more damage to his heads. There is a picture of the damage some where on the picture site but I don't know how to find it. Apparently the exist gas causes the iron plug to move around and it eats away at the head and it also gets smaller. When I installed mine I ground them on a grinder till they fit snug in the heads. I didn't think they could move but I was sure surprised. When I removed the intake manifold what a surprise. I got mine at a boat performance shop they told me they were a great improvement just put them in. Maybe Ken will chime in and find the picture so you can see the effect. When I was building my last motor the machine shop said they set the iron plugs in their heads with a high temperature epoxy but I prefered to weld aplate in the manifold and install the stainless block off plates too. I also filled the manifold with furnace cement.
Roy
The only thing that I did with the iron plugs was drill a 1/4 inch hole through them and grind them to fit the ports per Edelbrock instructions that was packed in the box. No weld, no epoxy. I assume that the hole was intended to reduce the piston effect.
I will keep my fingers crossed.
Did you have any symptoms of the problems prior to you opening the motor?
Gil
[/quote]
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
[Updated on: Sat, 06 November 2010 21:02] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell/Edelbrock combo [message #105297 is a reply to message #105292] |
Sat, 06 November 2010 21:22 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
your correct on the differace not being that much.
We have install several and at low rpm it is not very noticable, but
at higher RPM it becomes noticable.
On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 6:49 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> I came across this thread immediately after answering Gary's question on
> GMCMH-EFI; here's an extract from that reply:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> I've had some experience with the Edelbrock Performer. My 455 was equipped
> with one when I bought it in '98. Before I got the coach home, I totalled
> the 59,000 mile engine. During the rebuild I discovered that the crossover
> was cracked beneath the carburetor (crossover runner, not into the intake).
> I had it welded up but it soon cracked again. Edelbrock advised that I HAD
> to install iron plugs in the heads to block the crossover; they sent me some
> for free. See the results at:
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3057
>
> I then poured the crossover and drove it that way until we got too tired of
> the raised hatch. I then poured the crossover of an iron manifold and
> installed it.
>
> I've often been asked the performance difference between the OEM manifold
> and the Edelbrock. My honest answer is, "...None below 4000 rpm...". I
> stand by that.
>
> NOTE: The Summit catalog has a note about the Olds Performer manifold to
> the effect that the provided iron plugs MUST be used to preserve the
> warranty. Right. See above. I know of several others with similar
> experiences to mine, including one with ruptured water jacket, subsequent
> hydraulic lock, and engine destruction.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Maybe the hole through the plug helps; Edelbrock didn't tell me about that
> in '99. I won't give them another chance.
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell/Edelbrock combo [message #105367 is a reply to message #105297] |
Sun, 07 November 2010 14:37 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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One more argument against plugs in the heads. I got this off-net from Dick
Paterson:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...way back in the 80.s we tried a set of the cast plugs with similar
results---a mystery rattle that sounded like detonation -and would show on
the knock sensor at times-it took us a long time to discover the
source---- I still have many bags of them somewhere.
The stainless plates set into fibre gaskets seem to last forever- (I know
of several of our motors approaching 100000 miles on the originals) they
also meet the requirment of "aluminum to cast iron" separation that
Edelbrock state in their literature.
(not intended to be an info-mercial)...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken H.
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell/Edelbrock combo [message #105370 is a reply to message #105367] |
Sun, 07 November 2010 15:30 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Many years ago, in an attempt to extract more HP out of Henry's Flatmotor,
the aftermarket produced a splitter made of cast iron that went in the
center siamesed exhaust port in the block to separate the exhaust pulses
from each other in the common port. Without extensive flow bench and exhaust
porting work, about all they separated was a $20.00 and a $10.00 from your
wallet. They did do one thing else and that was to come loose and rattle
around like crazy & drive you nuts trying to find it. I believe that the
same company produced similar products for Olds engines that also have a
siamesed exhaust port. Never tried those but they probably would perform
similarly. The stainless steel blockoff plates that I have used and seen
seem to perform their task well and for a long time if fuel mixtures and
timing are correct.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Royale 403
On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> One more argument against plugs in the heads. I got this off-net from Dick
> Paterson:
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...way back in the 80.s we tried a set of the cast plugs with similar
> results---a mystery rattle that sounded like detonation -and would show on
> the knock sensor at times-it took us a long time to discover the
> source---- I still have many bags of them somewhere.
> The stainless plates set into fibre gaskets seem to last forever- (I know
> of several of our motors approaching 100000 miles on the originals) they
> also meet the requirment of "aluminum to cast iron" separation that
> Edelbrock state in their literature.
> (not intended to be an info-mercial)...
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ken H.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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