Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Genset Self Destructing
| [GMCnet] Genset Self Destructing [message #103359] |
Mon, 18 October 2010 08:32  |
Don Eddy
Messages: 6
Registered: October 2010
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Hello all,
First time here. I've been franticly for several days looking for a
solution.
77 Eleganza II bought 17 months ago from a guy who was using the
generator to power his house. He couldn't pay his elec bill, or water,
or phone.
The genset was pullled out, flywheel and cover off and on the ground,
starter hanging down and cover off the control board with the wires
all hard wired. 4 quarts of Mobil 1 sitting on the driveway.
Hour meter: 526 but it was no longer working.
I gave him a day to put it back, running or not.
He did. I gave him cash and drove off. Genset seemed to work fairly
well for the next several months in Houston and Sarasota, FL except
when I returned to Houston there was oil dripping; the compartment
door bottom was coated with oil and dirt.
The low oil pressure sensor was leaking from the tip where the wire
connects. Oil all over everything. Replaced the sensor.
At this point neither the remote nor the genset start switch would do
anything. Emergency instructions with jumper wires worked but the
starter jumped in and out, whirred like crazy, and so on. When it
would engage the engine would not fire at all. Then it engaged and
would not release nor shut off. Pulled all wires from controller
board. Nada. Had to remove positive battery cable.
That's where I'm at.
A run to Cummins in Denver. The elder mechanic who knew these
generators said the started was obsolete, no parts and probably could
not be repaired and it was ($126 per shop hour) maybe the board. So
you'd have to spend time trying to replace the wires correctly and
then the two additional boards I have may not solve the problem. So
you're out $500 or so. Replace the genset with a NHE OR NHD or a BGE
OR BGD or a KY.
I can get a starter for $107 new or maybe an Onan BFA (might work but
it's 5 inches wider than my NH for $800 w/10 hours on it about 200
miles south of me.
I'm looking for some guidance on this from the experts in the GMC arena.
Don Eddy
Ft. Collins, CO
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset Self Destructing [message #103360 is a reply to message #103359] |
Mon, 18 October 2010 08:58  |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Don,
Welcome to the GMCnet.
Here is a link to many Onan resources.
http://gmcmotorhome.info/list.html#GEN
The start stop switches may require disassembly and cleaning to prevent the starter engage problem. The control board wiring replacement is reasonably straight forward -- tracing and numbering and reinstalling.
While many have dumped the old Onan -- I think with reasonable maintenance most can be made to be serviceable.
Good luck,
Dennis
| Don Eddy wrote on Mon, 18 October 2010 08:32 |
Hello all,
First time here. I've been franticly for several days looking for a
solution.
77 Eleganza II bought 17 months ago from a guy who was using the
generator to power his house. He couldn't pay his elec bill, or water,
or phone.
The genset was pullled out, flywheel and cover off and on the ground,
starter hanging down and cover off the control board with the wires
all hard wired. 4 quarts of Mobil 1 sitting on the driveway.
Hour meter: 526 but it was no longer working.
I gave him a day to put it back, running or not.
He did. I gave him cash and drove off. Genset seemed to work fairly
well for the next several months in Houston and Sarasota, FL except
when I returned to Houston there was oil dripping; the compartment
door bottom was coated with oil and dirt.
The low oil pressure sensor was leaking from the tip where the wire
connects. Oil all over everything. Replaced the sensor.
At this point neither the remote nor the genset start switch would do
anything. Emergency instructions with jumper wires worked but the
starter jumped in and out, whirred like crazy, and so on. When it
would engage the engine would not fire at all. Then it engaged and
would not release nor shut off. Pulled all wires from controller
board. Nada. Had to remove positive battery cable.
That's where I'm at.
A run to Cummins in Denver. The elder mechanic who knew these
generators said the started was obsolete, no parts and probably could
not be repaired and it was ($126 per shop hour) maybe the board. So
you'd have to spend time trying to replace the wires correctly and
then the two additional boards I have may not solve the problem. So
you're out $500 or so. Replace the genset with a NHE OR NHD or a BGE
OR BGD or a KY.
I can get a starter for $107 new or maybe an Onan BFA (might work but
it's 5 inches wider than my NH for $800 w/10 hours on it about 200
miles south of me.
I'm looking for some guidance on this from the experts in the GMC arena.
Don Eddy
Ft. Collins, CO
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset Self Destructing [message #103361 is a reply to message #103359] |
Mon, 18 October 2010 09:08 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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You can still get a starter, ask me how I know, but it cost a pretty penny. Jeff Sirrum at Alex Sirrum GMC got me one about 2yrs ago. He might be able to get you a line on one.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset Self Destructing [message #103367 is a reply to message #103361] |
Mon, 18 October 2010 09:24 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Part of the starter problem may be the starter support bracket. They were made of either a cheap al casting or pot metal castings. They break. You can get a new steel bracket from Ragusa, and it will last longer than an anvil. You can easily check the starter bracket by grabbing the starter motor with your hands and try to move it; if it moves, it is broken.
Another way to see if the bracket is broken (without taking anything apart), look on the support under the generator, and see if there are drag marks from the butt of the starter being scrapped across the support when the drawer is extended. There are rebuilt boards available, check with your favorite GMC parts supplier.
I replaced mine, very easy task. Less than one cuss words and one beer time unit.
Tom Phipps,
75 GMC Ex-Avion
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset Self Destructing [message #103368 is a reply to message #103360] |
Mon, 18 October 2010 09:23 |
Don Eddy
Messages: 6
Registered: October 2010
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Dennis,
Thanks! Great link.
I believe I'll have to pull the starter. Someone said hardened
grease could be the cause of not disengaging.
Don
On Oct 18, 2010, at 7:58 AM, Dennis Sexton wrote:
>
>
> Don,
> Welcome to the GMCnet.
>
> Here is a link to many Onan resources.
>
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/list.html#GEN
>
> The start stop switches may require disassembly and cleaning to
> prevent the starter engage problem. The control board wiring
> replacement is reasonably straight forward -- tracing and numbering
> and reinstalling.
>
> While many have dumped the old Onan -- I think with reasonable
> maintenance most can be made to be serviceable.
>
> Good luck,
> Dennis
>
>
> Don Eddy wrote on Mon, 18 October 2010 08:32
>> Hello all,
>>
>> First time here. I've been franticly for several days looking for a
>> solution.
>>
>> 77 Eleganza II bought 17 months ago from a guy who was using the
>> generator to power his house. He couldn't pay his elec bill, or
>> water,
>> or phone.
>>
>> The genset was pullled out, flywheel and cover off and on the ground,
>> starter hanging down and cover off the control board with the wires
>> all hard wired. 4 quarts of Mobil 1 sitting on the driveway.
>>
>> Hour meter: 526 but it was no longer working.
>>
>> I gave him a day to put it back, running or not.
>>
>> He did. I gave him cash and drove off. Genset seemed to work fairly
>> well for the next several months in Houston and Sarasota, FL except
>> when I returned to Houston there was oil dripping; the compartment
>> door bottom was coated with oil and dirt.
>>
>> The low oil pressure sensor was leaking from the tip where the wire
>> connects. Oil all over everything. Replaced the sensor.
>>
>> At this point neither the remote nor the genset start switch would do
>> anything. Emergency instructions with jumper wires worked but the
>> starter jumped in and out, whirred like crazy, and so on. When it
>> would engage the engine would not fire at all. Then it engaged and
>> would not release nor shut off. Pulled all wires from controller
>> board. Nada. Had to remove positive battery cable.
>>
>> That's where I'm at.
>>
>> A run to Cummins in Denver. The elder mechanic who knew these
>> generators said the started was obsolete, no parts and probably could
>> not be repaired and it was ($126 per shop hour) maybe the board. So
>> you'd have to spend time trying to replace the wires correctly and
>> then the two additional boards I have may not solve the problem. So
>> you're out $500 or so. Replace the genset with a NHE OR NHD or a BGE
>> OR BGD or a KY.
>>
>> I can get a starter for $107 new or maybe an Onan BFA (might work but
>> it's 5 inches wider than my NH for $800 w/10 hours on it about 200
>> miles south of me.
>>
>> I'm looking for some guidance on this from the experts in the GMC
>> arena.
>>
>> Don Eddy
>> Ft. Collins, CO
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> --
> Dennis S
> 73 Painted Desert 230
> Germantown, TN
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset Self Destructing [message #103376 is a reply to message #103370] |
Mon, 18 October 2010 10:57 |
Don Eddy
Messages: 6
Registered: October 2010
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Rob,
Sounds like ears of moths, nails of toads, etc. ;-)
But it's worth a try since the starter base seems to be intact, not
broken.
I personally do not know Duane. The man I spoke with at Cummins in
Denver is Jeff. He even checked at the main plant in Indiana for used
gensets. They have an NH, refurbished, for $3000! Given that scenario
I'd go for a Microlite KY 4KW since I have a single A/C.
Ciao,
Don
On Oct 18, 2010, at 8:32 AM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> Don,
>
> Mine used to do the same thing. I called Mr. Onan (Duane Simmons)
> and he
> helped me troubleshoot it. The first thing he told me to do was
> disconnect
> the connector from the electric choke. THAT WAS IT! He explained why
> it
> happens but I have a serious case of CRS.
>
> Speaking of Duane how's he doing?
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Don Eddy
> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 9:23 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Genset Self Destructing
>
> Dennis,
>
> Thanks! Great link.
>
> I believe I'll have to pull the starter. Someone said hardened
> grease could be the cause of not disengaging.
>
> Don
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset Self Destructing [message #103377 is a reply to message #103376] |
Mon, 18 October 2010 11:05 |
Patrick Flowers
Messages: 195
Registered: February 2004
Karma: -24
|
Senior Member |
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Don,
I think Rob asking how Duane is doing was directed more to the group at
large. Duane Simmons, among many other talents, is the GMC Onan guru.
Patrick
On Mon, October 18, 2010 11:57 am, Don Eddy wrote:
> Rob,
>
> Sounds like ears of moths, nails of toads, etc. ;-)
>
> But it's worth a try since the starter base seems to be intact, not
> broken.
>
> I personally do not know Duane. The man I spoke with at Cummins in
> Denver is Jeff. He even checked at the main plant in Indiana for used
> gensets. They have an NH, refurbished, for $3000! Given that scenario
> I'd go for a Microlite KY 4KW since I have a single A/C.
>
> Ciao,
> Don
>
>
> On Oct 18, 2010, at 8:32 AM, Rob Mueller wrote:
>
>> Don,
>>
>> Mine used to do the same thing. I called Mr. Onan (Duane Simmons)
>> and he
>> helped me troubleshoot it. The first thing he told me to do was
>> disconnect
>> the connector from the electric choke. THAT WAS IT! He explained why
>> it
>> happens but I have a serious case of CRS.
>>
>> Speaking of Duane how's he doing?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob
--
GMCnet Listmaster
'73 CanyonLands
Tyrone GA
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Patrick Flowers
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'73 CanyonLands
Tyrone, GA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset Self Destructing [message #103381 is a reply to message #103376] |
Mon, 18 October 2010 11:07 |
Mike Kilroy
Messages: 80
Registered: July 2006
Location: Farmersville, OH (near D...
Karma: 0
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Member |
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I missed the first part of this but sounds like you have the opposite
problem that I had a month ago: starter would NOT engage. It was a
case of rusty shaft and taking it off, apart, and cleaning and
regreasing the shaft so the gear would move freely again did the trick.
If it had engaged on the rusty shaft it definitely would have got stuck
out and thus not disengage (as I assume your is).
>> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 9:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Genset Self Destructing
>>
>> Dennis,
>>
>> Thanks! Great link.
>>
>> I believe I'll have to pull the starter. Someone said hardened
>> grease could be the cause of not disengaging.
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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Mike (AC8V) & Vickie Kilroy
'73 Canyon Land 26' sidebath
455/ceramic filled crossovers
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset Self Destructing [message #103412 is a reply to message #103359] |
Mon, 18 October 2010 15:05 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
|
Senior Member |
|
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| Don Eddy wrote on Mon, 18 October 2010 09:32 |
Hello all,
First time here. I've been franticly for several days looking for a solution.
77 Eleganza II bought 17 months ago from a guy who was using the
generator to power his house. He couldn't pay his elec bill, or water, or phone.
The genset was pullled out, flywheel and cover off and on the ground, starter hanging down and cover off the control board with the wires all hard wired. 4 quarts of Mobil 1 sitting on the driveway.
Hour meter: 526 but it was no longer working.
I gave him a day to put it back, running or not.
He did. I gave him cash and drove off. Genset seemed to work fairly well for the next several months in Houston and Sarasota, FL except when I returned to Houston there was oil dripping; the compartment door bottom was coated with oil and dirt.
The low oil pressure sensor was leaking from the tip where the wire connects. Oil all over everything. Replaced the sensor.
At this point neither the remote nor the genset start switch would do anything. Emergency instructions with jumper wires worked but the starter jumped in and out, whirred like crazy, and so on. When it would engage the engine would not fire at all. Then it engaged and would not release nor shut off. Pulled all wires from controller board. Nada. Had to remove positive battery cable.
That's where I'm at.
A run to Cummins in Denver. The elder mechanic who knew these
generators said the started was obsolete, no parts and probably could not be repaired and it was ($126 per shop hour) maybe the board. So you'd have to spend time trying to replace the wires correctly and then the two additional boards I have may not solve the problem. So you're out $500 or so. Replace the genset with a NHE OR NHD or a BGE OR BGD or a KY.
I can get a starter for $107 new or maybe an Onan BFA (might work but it's 5 inches wider than my NH for $800 w/10 hours on it about 200 miles south of me.
I'm looking for some guidance on this from the experts in the GMC arena.
Don Eddy
Ft. Collins, CO
|
Don,
You have gotten lots of good information (usually the case here on GMCnet).
The hour meter probably does not work because of the corroded connections to the interior start/stop switch (even more common than the leaking LOP switch). Search out the four wires that go to the switch and re-do the connections. While you are at it add an extra wire and look up adding a prime circuit.
The oil leak is a very common issue (does make a serious mess of things) and is relatively simple fix. Get the replacement from almost anywhere (1/8mpt OOR 5psi). There is are several numbers for it in the GMCMI interchange book.
If cleaning and greasing the starter does not do it (that the bracket is intact), the starter can probably be still be repaired by a real automotive electrical shop.
Fast summary - it runs well when things are right, it will probably not take too very much to make it a clean and nice machine again.
Note: While you are replacing the LOP switch, re-tighten the two nuts that hold the oil filter mount on that side of the. engine.
A short FYI - This Onan series was designed for a life of 8000+ hours.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset Self Destructing [message #103604 is a reply to message #103463] |
Wed, 20 October 2010 17:30 |
Don Eddy
Messages: 6
Registered: October 2010
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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To all who responded. Thanks a great deal! Your suggestions led to the
following as I wrote to Dan Gregg:
Broken bracket, the red one. Had the starter checked by a real "old
timer" here in Fort Collins, CO, Automotive Electrics, near the
airport. Fantastic place like out of the 40s. A gold mine in starters,
generators, alternators, everything and anything. I put the starter on
the pile of newspapers where the sign "Put Dirty Items Here". A voice
from the back, "Hello, be there in a second." An elderly man, thin
with wire rim glasses limps out from behind whatever! He takes an
instant look at the starter, "Ah, an old Onan."
Blows me away! Similar thing years ago with my old Land Rover in ND.
He tests it. "A lot sluggish and the shaft bushing is shot." He shows
me.
"Can you clean it and repair it?"
"Nope. Not any longer. What year is it?"
I tell him and he says, "I think I have one on a back shelf."
He limps back into where he'd come from and returns with a gray box,
wiping it off with a rag from his back pocket. He sets the starter on
the counter next to mine. They match almost perfectly.
"How much you want for it?"
He sits down at a computer at the end of the counter by the wall.
"$147."
"I found one yesterday for $107."
"That's a good deal."
I ask how much for the test. "Nothing, do it all day."
I drop a couple of quarters into a home made money box on the
counter. I pick out a Butterfinger from the stack of candy bars behind
the box.
"Thanks," as I leave.
"Glad I could help," he returns.
So I'm headed for eBay where I found the $107 one at Buy it Now.
Now to find out where to get a bracket.
Don
On Oct 19, 2010, at 9:11 AM, Emery Stora wrote:
>
> On Oct 18, 2010, at 8:23 AM, Don Eddy wrote:
>
>> Dennis,
>>
>> Thanks! Great link.
>>
>> I believe I'll have to pull the starter. Someone said hardened
>> grease could be the cause of not disengaging.
>>
>> Don
>
>
> It can also sometimes be wear on the starter gear. This can
> sometimes be corrected by putting a thin washer between the starter
> mount and the generator casting on one of the starter bolts. This
> will tilt the gear toward or away from the flywheel gear depending
> on which bolt you put the washer.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset Self Destructing [message #103607 is a reply to message #103604] |
Wed, 20 October 2010 18:00 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
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Bracket
Jimk. Ragusa
Gene
On Oct 20, 2010, at 3:30 PM, Don Eddy <DonEddy@CommunicatingImages.com> wrote:
> To all who responded. Thanks a great deal! Your suggestions led to the
> following as I wrote to Dan Gregg:
>
> Broken bracket, the red one. Had the starter checked by a real "old
> timer" here in Fort Collins, CO, Automotive Electrics, near the
> airport. Fantastic place like out of the 40s. A gold mine in starters,
> generators, alternators, everything and anything. I put the starter on
> the pile of newspapers where the sign "Put Dirty Items Here". A voice
> from the back, "Hello, be there in a second." An elderly man, thin
> with wire rim glasses limps out from behind whatever! He takes an
> instant look at the starter, "Ah, an old Onan."
>
> Blows me away! Similar thing years ago with my old Land Rover in ND.
>
> He tests it. "A lot sluggish and the shaft bushing is shot." He shows
> me.
>
> "Can you clean it and repair it?"
>
> "Nope. Not any longer. What year is it?"
>
> I tell him and he says, "I think I have one on a back shelf."
>
> He limps back into where he'd come from and returns with a gray box,
> wiping it off with a rag from his back pocket. He sets the starter on
> the counter next to mine. They match almost perfectly.
>
> "How much you want for it?"
>
> He sits down at a computer at the end of the counter by the wall.
> "$147."
>
> "I found one yesterday for $107."
>
> "That's a good deal."
>
> I ask how much for the test. "Nothing, do it all day."
>
> I drop a couple of quarters into a home made money box on the
> counter. I pick out a Butterfinger from the stack of candy bars behind
> the box.
>
> "Thanks," as I leave.
>
> "Glad I could help," he returns.
>
> So I'm headed for eBay where I found the $107 one at Buy it Now.
>
> Now to find out where to get a bracket.
>
> Don
>
>
> On Oct 19, 2010, at 9:11 AM, Emery Stora wrote:
>
>>
>> On Oct 18, 2010, at 8:23 AM, Don Eddy wrote:
>>
>>> Dennis,
>>>
>>> Thanks! Great link.
>>>
>>> I believe I'll have to pull the starter. Someone said hardened
>>> grease could be the cause of not disengaging.
>>>
>>> Don
>>
>>
>> It can also sometimes be wear on the starter gear. This can
>> sometimes be corrected by putting a thin washer between the starter
>> mount and the generator casting on one of the starter bolts. This
>> will tilt the gear toward or away from the flywheel gear depending
>> on which bolt you put the washer.
>>
>> Emery Stora
>> 77 Kingsley
>> Santa Fe, NM
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Genset Self Destructing [message #103638 is a reply to message #103607] |
Wed, 20 October 2010 22:20 |
 |
WD0AFQ
Messages: 7111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Dexter, Mo.
Karma: 207
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Senior Member |
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Gene, do you remember referring Don to me about 3 years ago? He is a super guy. Thanks for helping us to become friends.
Dan
3 In Stainless Exhaust Headers
One Ton All Discs/Reaction Arm
355 FD/Quad Bag/Alum Radiator Manny Tran/New eng.
Holley EFI/10 Tire Air Monitoring System
Solarized Coach/Upgraded Windows
Satelite TV/On Demand Hot Water/3Way Refer
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