Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Frig update???
| Frig update??? [message #102573] |
Mon, 11 October 2010 12:27  |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
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The refrigerator seems to have its own weak point, the gas/burner and controls of the unit.
When they go out we all start looking to replace and maybe go with electric with an inverter.....
I am wondering if anyone has thought about using a thermoelectric cooler / heater.
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/PJT-11/THERMOELECTRIC-HEATER/COOLER/1.html
It has been used on coolers successfully for awhile now, uses 12vdc and could probably be controlled by a simple temp controller.
When our old frig goes out, we have the box we need, replace the old cooler with this at freezer level. Might need more than one, depends on the size of the frig.
I have a cooler in the GMC that uses one of these and it has operated flawlessly, no gas concern, no inverter concern and keeps my sodas and sandwiches (  ) cool while on the road and in easy reach distance.
Just wondering what the popular opinion might be.
Gatsbys' CRUISER  08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
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| Re: Frig update??? [message #102577 is a reply to message #102573] |
Mon, 11 October 2010 12:58  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Larry C wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 12:27 |
The refrigerator seems to have its own weak point, the gas/burner and controls of the unit.
When they go out we all start looking to replace and maybe go with electric with an inverter.....
I am wondering if anyone has thought about using a thermoelectric cooler / heater.
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/PJT-11/THERMOELECTRIC-HEATER/COOLER/1.html
It has been used on coolers successfully for awhile now, uses 12vdc and could probably be controlled by a simple temp controller.
When our old frig goes out, we have the box we need, replace the old cooler with this at freezer level. Might need more than one, depends on the size of the frig.
I have a cooler in the GMC that uses one of these and it has operated flawlessly, no gas concern, no inverter concern and keeps my sodas and sandwiches ( ) cool while on the road and in easy reach distance.
Just wondering what the popular opinion might be.
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I have a couple of those around in very small coolers. The problem is they a can kill a starting battery overnight. They are very inefficient.
I'll stay with my gas refrigerator I just have to remember to fill the tank once every year or two. My first one lasted 24 years. If the second one lasts that long I'll be dead before it is.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Frig update??? [message #102583 is a reply to message #102577] |
Mon, 11 October 2010 13:44 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I have a couple of those around in very small coolers. The problem is they a can kill a starting battery overnight. They are very inefficient.
_____________________________________________
Just a question...
Wouldn't efficiency be directly related to how well the box is insulated???
Or should I assume the frig is not insulated well??
This has all been a thought with all these questions of inverters, trying to run on battery, and the such.
Perhaps for a park unit that is plugged in all the time but prob not booning.
Ok then, kill that thought
Just wanted to throw that out there
Gatsbys' CRUISER 08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
_
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| Re: [GMCnet] Frig update??? [message #102590 is a reply to message #102586] |
Mon, 11 October 2010 14:34 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| emerystora wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 13:45 |
On Oct 11, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Larry wrote:
>
>
> I have a couple of those around in very small coolers. The problem is they a can kill a starting battery overnight. They are very inefficient.
> _____________________________________________
>
> Just a question...
>
> Wouldn't efficiency be directly related to how well the box is insulated???
>
> Or should I assume the frig is not insulated well??
>
> This has all been a thought with all these questions of inverters, trying to run on battery, and the such.
>
> Perhaps for a park unit that is plugged in all the time but prob not booning.
>
> Ok then, kill that thought
> Just wanted to throw that out there
> --
> Gatsbys' CRUISER 
> 74 GLACIER X, 260
> 455/APC/4 bagg'r(ver3)
> Remflex Manifold gaskets
> _______________________________________________
> Purchased 08-18-04
>
> _
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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I know emery had something to say. I just have not figured out what it was.
I have one cooler that I wrapped in bubble pack just to add some additional insulation to it. It did not help much. The ones I have run continuously so you are looking at a 6 to 8 amp load per unit all the time. I do not know how many units it would take to run a refrigerator. You could always buy one or several and try it.
I had to remember to unplug it over night so my car battery would not be dead the next day. I still use the biggest cooler but I load it up with ICE and run the electric part only when the engine is running.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Frig update??? [message #102611 is a reply to message #102573] |
Mon, 11 October 2010 16:40 |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Larry C wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 10:27 |
The refrigerator seems to have its own weak point, the gas/burner and controls of the unit.
I am wondering if anyone has thought about using a thermoelectric cooler / heater.
|
They are absurdly inefficient, and take a huge amount of 12 volt power to operate, take a long time to cool down, and only will go about 40 degrees below ambient. They have their uses in picnic coolers maybe, but not as a general refrigeration device.
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: [GMCnet] Frig update??? [message #102617 is a reply to message #102590] |
Mon, 11 October 2010 16:55 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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On Oct 11, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Ken Burton wrote:
>
>
> emerystora wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 13:45
>> On Oct 11, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Larry wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have a couple of those around in very small coolers. The problem is they a can kill a starting battery overnight. They are very inefficient.
>>> _____________________________________________
>>>
>>> Just a question...
>>>
>>> Wouldn't efficiency be directly related to how well the box is insulated???
>>>
>>
>>> Or should I assume the frig is not insulated well??
>>>
>>> This has all been a thought with all these questions of inverters, trying to run on battery, and the such.
>>>
>>> Perhaps for a park unit that is plugged in all the time but prob not booning.
>>>
>>> Ok then, kill that thought
>>> Just wanted to throw that out there
>>> --
>>> Gatsbys' CRUISER :d
>>> 74 GLACIER X, 260
>>> 455/APC/4 bagg'r(ver3)
>>> Remflex Manifold gaskets
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Purchased 08-18-04
>>>
>>> _
>>
>> Emery Stora
>> 77 Kingsley
>> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
> I know emery had something to say. I just have not figured out what it was.
>
>
>
>
>
I had meant to say something but I hit the send before typing.
Thermoelectric junctions (Peltier) are generally only around 5–10% as efficient as the ideal refrigerator (Carnot cycle), compared with 40–60% achieved by conventional compression cycle systems (reverse Rankine systems using compression/expansion). Due to the relatively low efficiency, thermoelectric cooling is generally only used in environments where the solid state nature (no moving parts, maintenance-free) outweighs pure efficiency.
So it doesn't really matter much how you insulate them. The process alone is just not very efficient.
I have seen some nifty little 6 pack coolers built with them but you had better not leave them running from your car battery for long as you would not be able to start the car (or pick up truck for you rednecks out there that drink in your truck!).
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: Frig update??? [message #102626 is a reply to message #102573] |
Mon, 11 October 2010 18:47 |
Erv Troyer
Messages: 125
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lagrange, IN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Larry C wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 12:27 |
I am wondering if anyone has thought about using a thermoelectric cooler / heater.
http://goo.gl/LZLl
It has been used on coolers successfully for awhile now, uses 12vdc and could probably be controlled by a simple temp controller.
When our old frig goes out, we have the box we need, replace the old cooler with this at freezer level. Might need more than one, depends on the size of the frig.
I have a cooler in the GMC that uses one of these and it has operated flawlessly, no gas concern, no inverter concern and keeps my sodas and sandwiches ( ) cool while on the road and in easy reach distance.
Just wondering what the popular opinion might be.
|
Ah, yes - thermoelectric cooling - the science of the future! I remember a display in the Chrysler pavilion at the World's Fair - it was said that this will replace all air conditioning and refrigeration devices within 10 years. Did I mention that this was the 1964 New York World's Fair? Now it is 46 years later, and these small devices represent the best product that we have come up with since then.
This principle has always intrigued me - a thermocouple working in reverse - because of its simplicity. However, the few engineers I have talked to about this said it gets very energy intensive when used on a large scale. For a small well insulated box it is OK and it appears you have a cooler that works - for your use. For a larger refrigerator, or a freezer that will keep ice cream solid, I don't think it would be a good idea.
That's my two cents worth. I would like to hear other opinions on this from others.
Erv Troyer Lagrange, IN
74 Sequoia
reo43@aol.com
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| Re: Frig update??? [message #102650 is a reply to message #102626] |
Mon, 11 October 2010 22:12 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Did I mention that this was the 1964 New York World's Fair?
______________________________________________________________
1964, gees.... I think I was in 7th grade at Jack Benny Jr High... My gosh, 9 more years and I would have my first look at a GMC Motorhome, Start working my life long job and start buying cars.
TV would become color, screens would go LCD, Digital clocks, Computers and Microwave ovens......
Jobs would move around and positions would change..... Its kinda strange to look back there again after all this time....
LarC
Gatsbys' CRUISER 08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
_
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