Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Drunk with a Stupid Idea
| [GMCnet] Drunk with a Stupid Idea [message #97697] |
Sun, 29 August 2010 07:58  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I Stumbled across the "alcohol insider" article below. It's truly
frightening in that it displays the investment being made in the absurdity,
and some unadvertised aspects. It's a tidal wave as irresistible as Katrina
and FAR more expensive and destructive, not just to the GMC but to our
entire economy. The quotations I extracted are significant to me: The
increasing IMPORTATION of ethanol (right! -- exchange our dependence on
imported oil in favor of imported alcohol) and the looming completion of the
dictatorial decrees.
http://research.smeal.psu.edu/news/integrating-ethanol-into-the-petroleum-supply-chain?gclid=CNHf_KXb3qMCFYHu7QodH38F8g
"They note an increase in ethanol imports because of three key issues: (1)
insufficient corn-growing capacity in the United States, (2) geographic
location of certain U.S. states where it is logistically smarter to use
imported ethanol, and (3) the need to secure supply for both ethanol and
gasoline."
“The statewide mandate of E10 in Pennsylvania will be triggered when an
annual in-state production capacity reaches 200 million gallons,” she says.
“Oregon requires mandates of E10 blends once in-state ethanol production
reaches 40 million gallons per year (MMGY), while Montana sets E10 mandates
to begin 12 months after 40 MMGY of ethanol had been produced in the state.
Minnesota’s E10 mandate has been in effect since 2003 and they’re now aiming
for an E20 mandate by 2013.”
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Drunk with a Stupid Idea [message #97700 is a reply to message #97697] |
Sun, 29 August 2010 08:45  |
Sandra Price
Messages: 709
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Ken, in addition, the following quote from the article indicates a big
conflict of interest in this ethanol planning:
“The other big ‘aha’ that came out of this for us is that these targets are
possibly increasing the carbon footprint because of the additional
industrial plants used to extract ethanol run on fuel,” they add.
Sandra Price
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> I Stumbled across the "alcohol insider" article below. It's truly
> frightening in that it displays the investment being made in the absurdity,
> and some unadvertised aspects. It's a tidal wave as irresistible as
> Katrina
> and FAR more expensive and destructive, not just to the GMC but to our
> entire economy. The quotations I extracted are significant to me: The
> increasing IMPORTATION of ethanol (right! -- exchange our dependence on
> imported oil in favor of imported alcohol) and the looming completion of
> the
> dictatorial decrees.
>
>
> http://research.smeal.psu.edu/news/integrating-ethanol-into-the-petroleum-supply-chain?gclid=CNHf_KXb3qMCFYHu7QodH38F8g
>
> "They note an increase in ethanol imports because of three key issues: (1)
> insufficient corn-growing capacity in the United States, (2) geographic
> location of certain U.S. states where it is logistically smarter to use
> imported ethanol, and (3) the need to secure supply for both ethanol and
> gasoline."
>
> “The statewide mandate of E10 in Pennsylvania will be triggered when an
> annual in-state production capacity reaches 200 million gallons,” she says.
> “Oregon requires mandates of E10 blends once in-state ethanol production
> reaches 40 million gallons per year (MMGY), while Montana sets E10 mandates
> to begin 12 months after 40 MMGY of ethanol had been produced in the state.
> Minnesota’s E10 mandate has been in effect since 2003 and they’re now
> aiming
> for an E20 mandate by 2013.”
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
IN GOD WE TRUST!
Sandra and Bob in the 51st Year of our State of Marriage
“Life’s a Trip” in “The Roadhouse”
’73 Painted Desert
Huntsville, TX
Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another, be sympathetic, love
as brothers, be compassionate and humble. Do not repay evil with evil or
insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so
that you may inherit a blessing. --1 Peter 3:8-9
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| Re: [GMCnet] Drunk with a Stupid Idea [message #97741 is a reply to message #97697] |
Sun, 29 August 2010 16:57 |
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Ken, that's the real problem with ethanol in this country is, how, and what it is made from. Brazil has nearly total energy Independence because it uses cheap fast growing sugarcane to make ethanol, other plants that have a high sugar content that are fast growing can be used. while using genetically modified crops for food I feel is a horrible idea because of the unknown long term effects of consuming GMO products, I do think that GMO for purposes of fuel production would be viable to reduce the cost of production, and increase output volume.
You also touched on the fact that so much of our energy in this country is petroleum based, from fuel in cars, to the power that comes out of the wall, to the fuel for farm tractors, and that the consumption in petroleum in production equals output in alcohol, which of course defeats its purpose. For ethanol to be a viable fuel, this has to be changed. we have neglected our infrastructure for far too long in this country, our aging power grid looses energy in transmission losses due to inefficiency, and this nations unreasonable fear of Nuclear power generation has handicapped it in its ability economically produce "clean" and abundant energy. By contrast in countries like Germany, France, and the rest of Europe and Japan, most power is generated by Fission, it is done relatively cheap, and it is used for everything from heating homes, to moving freight on high speed rail systems. Last year in Germany I watched an electric freight train moving freight down the rails at nearly 100 MPH, the speed which it did this was awesome, and the length of the train was similar to what you see here, but moving about 3 times faster. Why haven't we developed similar infrastructure is beyond me. We put a man on the moon, so why cant we also have the best in everything?
This brings me back to ethanol as fuel, it is good not to put all our eggs in one basket. I think all fuel sources and energy sources as well as infrastructure upgrades in this country need to take place for us to truly be sufficiently insulated from energy supply problems. Diversity in fuel is a good thing, though ethanol should be allowed to compete with gasoline and diesel. processes exist to make light fuel oil from biomass, as well as alcohol fuel from biomass. South Africans have a process originally developed by the Germans to fuel the Blitzkrieg using coal to diesel, and modified that to turn natural gas into super clean diesel type fuel, something we have a lot of in this country is both coal and natural gas. these sources should not be used to generate electricity, but rather fuel for industry, with nuclear power taking over the lions share of electricity generation, along with biomass, and conventional development of petroleum resources, which in the USA is actually 5 times what is under the desert in Saudi Arabia. We don't need to import energy, we should be exporting it! Imagine the paradigm shift in our economy if we stopped bleeding 700 billion annually to foreign sources, many of which do not have our best interests in heart...
/Rant off
| Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 29 August 2010 07:58 |
I Stumbled across the "alcohol insider" article below. It's truly
frightening in that it displays the investment being made in the absurdity,
and some unadvertised aspects. It's a tidal wave as irresistible as Katrina
and FAR more expensive and destructive, not just to the GMC but to our
entire economy. The quotations I extracted are significant to me: The
increasing IMPORTATION of ethanol (right! -- exchange our dependence on
imported oil in favor of imported alcohol) and the looming completion of the
dictatorial decrees.
http://research.smeal.psu.edu/news/integrating-ethanol-into-the-petroleum-supply-chain?gclid=CNHf_KXb3qMCFYHu7QodH38F8g
"They note an increase in ethanol imports because of three key issues: (1)
insufficient corn-growing capacity in the United States, (2) geographic
location of certain U.S. states where it is logistically smarter to use
imported ethanol, and (3) the need to secure supply for both ethanol and
gasoline."
“The statewide mandate of E10 in Pennsylvania will be triggered when an
annual in-state production capacity reaches 200 million gallons,” she says.
“Oregon requires mandates of E10 blends once in-state ethanol production
reaches 40 million gallons per year (MMGY), while Montana sets E10 mandates
to begin 12 months after 40 MMGY of ethanol had been produced in the state.
Minnesota’s E10 mandate has been in effect since 2003 and they’re now aiming
for an E20 mandate by 2013.”
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
[Updated on: Sun, 29 August 2010 17:02] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Drunk with a Stupid Idea [message #97746 is a reply to message #97697] |
Sun, 29 August 2010 17:48 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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the answer to all this is involved in farm subsidy. the corn growers are in hog heaven right now. you have to keep reserve acreage ready in case of drought so what do you do when global warming causes abundant rain fall? start up ethanol production. it puts subsidized acreage into production!!! no brainer.
there are, and have always been, things going on that we, the general public, have no control over. no matter how much we bitch the powers to be will do what the "think tanks" tell them to do. it doesn't matter which party is in power it always happens. all you have to do is look back at all the issues we have seen over the decades. please don't label me as a conspiracy theorist, i'm just realistic.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Drunk with a Stupid Idea [message #97752 is a reply to message #97746] |
Sun, 29 August 2010 18:59 |
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Fred, you bring up a lot of valid points, I am a very capitalistic person, but I also am a fairly nationalistic one. unfortunately when ou have blind capitalism without regard to nationalism you have what we are witnessing now in the US, with all of our industry being exported to china, and political leaders who will sell them selves to make a dollar faster then a strung out street walker in sin city. Globalism is the biggest threat to Nationalism, and a central bank is as Thomas Jefferson said well, is "the biggest threat to individual liberty, more so then any standing army".
Unfortunately the general lack of interest in our processes in this nation has led to this. the reason this nation is running 1.4 trillion in the hole every year is because our leaders know only a few are paying attention, and the rest are too fixated on whos on dancing with the stars or what Paris Hilton did last week. Its all very frustrating, especially since I am still fairly young, (I'll be 33 in a week and a half) I think by the time I reach an old age there might not be much of anything left...
| fred v wrote on Sun, 29 August 2010 17:48 |
the answer to all this is involved in farm subsidy. the corn growers are in hog heaven right now. you have to keep reserve acreage ready in case of drought so what do you do when global warming causes abundant rain fall? start up ethanol production. it puts subsidized acreage into production!!! no brainer.
there are, and have always been, things going on that we, the general public, have no control over. no matter how much we bitch the powers to be will do what the "think tanks" tell them to do. it doesn't matter which party is in power it always happens. all you have to do is look back at all the issues we have seen over the decades. please don't label me as a conspiracy theorist, i'm just realistic.
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73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Drunk with a Stupid Idea [message #97778 is a reply to message #97752] |
Sun, 29 August 2010 21:40 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Duce Apocalypse wrote on Sun, 29 August 2010 16:59 |
Fred, you bring up a lot of valid points, I am a very capitalistic person, but I also am a fairly nationalistic one. unfortunately when ou have blind capitalism without regard to nationalism you have ...
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I agree with most of what has been said... but keep in mind we do not have capitalism in the United States.. at least as far as energy is concerned. You could debate what we have but it is to much into politics for this forum.
To Drag this thread back to GMC content...
If you are planning on having a GMC in 10 or more years, Maybe it should be able to run a verity of different fuels. Any thoughts on what fuels we will have available (10 to 30 years out) and steps to take before then to be ready?
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Drunk with a Stupid Idea [message #97801 is a reply to message #97778] |
Mon, 30 August 2010 11:16 |
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Mike I know, I usually try not to go to political on these boards, and once I got in trouble over on a Mustang forum once because the article I wrote was deemed to political, but hell if you really think about it, there's a growing number of knuckleheads in government that would love to shove everyone one on some form of government mass transport. they cant do that outright since that would be tantamount to throwing a bucket of ice water on the sleeping masses out there, so instead they attack us in little annoying ways, like changing fuel blends, controlling the energy market, CAFE standards, unreasonable emissions requirements via agencies; here in California CARB is an excellent example of such, where most of the policies they enact are Solly for revenue generation and advancing a political agenda, the people who run it are not people with automotive engineering backgrounds, but rather appointed career political hacks. So sadly owning a vehicle is being politicized.
You do make a great point though that we should look to flex fueling or at least making our coaches hardened to the effect of the fuels that will be mandated in the market in later years. these rigs we own are unique pieces of Americana, and still of sound design and can have a life expectancy far beyond what the original designers ever though possible. I am one of the younger members here, and I can tell you that introducing the GMC to the next generation is a critical step in this process. Most of my friends (in there 20s and 30s) dig it cause they haven't seen anything like it, and keeping tha interest will be the key in building another generation of longevity into our rigs 
| mike miller wrote on Sun, 29 August 2010 21:40 |
| Duce Apocalypse wrote on Sun, 29 August 2010 16:59 |
Fred, you bring up a lot of valid points, I am a very capitalistic person, but I also am a fairly nationalistic one. unfortunately when ou have blind capitalism without regard to nationalism you have ...
|
I agree with most of what has been said... but keep in mind we do not have capitalism in the United States.. at least as far as energy is concerned. You could debate what we have but it is to much into politics for this forum.
To Drag this thread back to GMC content...
If you are planning on having a GMC in 10 or more years, Maybe it should be able to run a verity of different fuels. Any thoughts on what fuels we will have available (10 to 30 years out) and steps to take before then to be ready?
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73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
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