Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on Duracool
| [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on Duracool [message #95809] |
Fri, 13 August 2010 18:55  |
Gerald Work
Messages: 102
Registered: June 2010
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Senior Member |
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Hi,
We have been running our dash ac neary constantly for the last week or more. All was fine until this morning when the Cairo coming through the dash vents was no longer cold. At lunch I pulled out my simple one gauge connector hose. It showed about 15 psi on the low side with the compressor spinning. I thought it was just low so screwed on a can of duracool, screwed in the piercing unit and backed it back out to let the incepted duracool drizzle in, or so I thought. The pressure showed about 30 psi when I was through but seemed to move around a bit. I remember the correct pressure being more like 20 to 25 psi but decided to try this somewhat higher pressure. No cool air at the registers. The day was not too hot, so we turned off the dash air. When we parked tonight I checked to make sure the compressor clutch is working correctly, cycling onn or off as the dash lever is moved from ac to vent.
Still no cold air at the dash vents. I remounted the gauge and it seems to fluctuate from around 30 to around 50. I tried bleeding off some pressure but the apparent pressure did not drop appreciably. I have only one more can of duracool with me and we are still a long way from home so I don't want to squander that last can.
Any ideas what I should look for or do now? Thanks, I really don't want to roast the rest of the way home.
Btw, we came into the Black Hills area in SD only to learn that this is the last weekend of the Sturgess Bile Week. How about 750,000 bikers all trying to get home starting tomorrow (Sat). Every road we have been on today has been bikers going both directions......Wall Drug was.....interesting with many different languages heard on the side walks. Fun times, but would be even more fun if I can fix the ac before Sharon has a cow.
Jerry Work
78 Royale, 455
Kerby, OR
Sent from my iPad
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on Duracool [message #95812 is a reply to message #95809] |
Sat, 14 August 2010 12:07  |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Jerry:
The 15 psi would have suggested you were a little low on your charge. The 30-50 psi would suggest you were over charged. Are you checking with the engine speed around 1500 rpm? Make sure the liquid line isn't too hot to hold in your hand (indicating not enough air thru the condenser while parked, a light water spray on the condenser will cool it down while you are checking it) Another thought ,the heater isn't functioning at this time is it? A manual ball valve in the heater hose is a nice addition for summer use.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on Duracool [message #95820 is a reply to message #95809] |
Sat, 14 August 2010 12:45 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Jerry,
You want to have a little over 20 to 22 PSI with the engine running
at 1500 RPM should give you excellent cooling. The 15# is a little
too low and you will have no cooling at the higher pressures.
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
TZE Zone Restorations
77 Eleganza Custom (For Sale)
1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
On Aug 13, 2010, at 7:55 PM, Gerald Work wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We have been running our dash ac neary constantly for the last week
> or more. All was fine until this morning when the Cairo coming
> through the dash vents was no longer cold. At lunch I pulled out my
> simple one gauge connector hose. It showed about 15 psi on the low
> side with the compressor spinning. I thought it was just low so
> screwed on a can of duracool, screwed in the piercing unit and
> backed it back out to let the incepted duracool drizzle in, or so I
> thought. The pressure showed about 30 psi when I was through but
> seemed to move around a bit. I remember the correct pressure being
> more like 20 to 25 psi but decided to try this somewhat higher
> pressure. No cool air at the registers. The day was not too hot,
> so we turned off the dash air. When we parked tonight I checked to
> make sure the compressor clutch is working correctly, cycling onn or
> off as the dash lever is moved from ac to vent.
>
> Still no cold air at the dash vents. I remounted the gauge and it
> seems to fluctuate from around 30 to around 50. I tried bleeding
> off some pressure but the apparent pressure did not drop
> appreciably. I have only one more can of duracool with me and we
> are still a long way from home so I don't want to squander that last
> can.
>
> Any ideas what I should look for or do now? Thanks, I really don't
> want to roast the rest of the way home.
>
> Btw, we came into the Black Hills area in SD only to learn that this
> is the last weekend of the Sturgess Bile Week. How about 750,000
> bikers all trying to get home starting tomorrow (Sat). Every road
> we have been on today has been bikers going both
> directions......Wall Drug was.....interesting with many different
> languages heard on the side walks. Fun times, but would be even
> more fun if I can fix the ac before Sharon has a cow.
>
> Jerry Work
> 78 Royale, 455
> Kerby, OR
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on Duracool [message #95829 is a reply to message #95820] |
Sat, 14 August 2010 13:07 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""Jerry,
You want to have a little over 20 to 22 PSI with the engine running
at 1500 RPM should give you excellent cooling. The 15# is a little
too low and you will have no cooling at the higher pressures.
""
I'm going to try to fine tune mine again. To get max cooling, I had to go to about 30 PSI or a bit higher if I recall correctly to get max cooling, but I think I was running at less than 1500 rpm, but not much less. This raises another question--is the temperature of the low pressure line a good indication of the best outlet temperature? It sure would save a lot of hassle having to run back and forth to check air outlet temp while making incremental charge changes.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on Duracool [message #95944 is a reply to message #95829] |
Sun, 15 August 2010 17:51 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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A cold suction line is a pretty good indicator that you are close to where you should be. If it is over 100 degrees like in Arizona the suction pressure would be higher then it would be at say 85 degrees ambient. If you are idling at 1500 and the liquid line is too hot to hold due to not enough air flowing over the condenser your pressure will be higher(a slight mist from a garden hose will help here). If these 2 instances are occurring I would think 30 PSI is pretty close. The only other choice you would have would be to bleed a little off and closely monitor the discharge air and suction line temperature and stop when anything gets warmer then add a little more refrigerant.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on Duracool [message #95946 is a reply to message #95809] |
Sun, 15 August 2010 18:03 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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| Gerald Work wrote on Fri, 13 August 2010 18:55 |
Hi,
We have been running our dash ac neary constantly for the last week or more. All was fine until this morning when the Cairo coming through the dash vents was no longer cold. At lunch I pulled out my simple one gauge connector hose. It showed about 15 psi on the low side with the compressor spinning. I thought it was just low so screwed on a can of duracool, screwed in the piercing unit and backed it back out to let the incepted duracool drizzle in, or so I thought. The pressure showed about 30 psi when I was through but seemed to move around a bit. I remember the correct pressure being more like 20 to 25 psi but decided to try this somewhat higher pressure. No cool air at the registers. The day was not too hot, so we turned off the dash air. When we parked tonight I checked to make sure the compressor clutch is working correctly, cycling onn or off as the dash lever is moved from ac to vent.
Still no cold air at the dash vents. I remounted the gauge and it seems to fluctuate from around 30 to around 50. I tried bleeding off some pressure but the apparent pressure did not drop appreciably. I have only one more can of duracool with me and we are still a long way from home so I don't want to squander that last can.
Any ideas what I should look for or do now? Thanks, I really don't want to roast the rest of the way home.
Btw, we came into the Black Hills area in SD only to learn that this is the last weekend of the Sturgess Bile Week. How about 750,000 bikers all trying to get home starting tomorrow (Sat). Every road we have been on today has been bikers going both directions......Wall Drug was.....interesting with many different languages heard on the side walks. Fun times, but would be even more fun if I can fix the ac before Sharon has a cow.
Jerry Work
78 Royale, 455
Kerby, OR
Sent from my iPad
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are you holding the can upside down when adding Duracool?
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on Duracool [message #95953 is a reply to message #95948] |
Sun, 15 August 2010 18:25 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Phil;
I believe Bob posted his high pressure readings a couple of weeks ago which indicated the compressor was pumping normally.
In the A/C trade it is common to describe the compressor outlet line as the discharge line and the low or inlet line as the suction line. If you had the compressor on a bench and turned it one side would suck and the other side would blow air. I didn't make it up as I was commercial A/C mechanic for 40 years.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on duracool [message #96102 is a reply to message #96100] |
Mon, 16 August 2010 15:36 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Good ole Emery always has an easy solution, here I was thinking I'd have to adj the carb idle screw in and out.....shows what a novice I am! LOL. Thanks Emery!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com>
Sender: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:31:52
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Reply-To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on duracool
On Aug 16, 2010, at 2:24 PM, 78gmc-royale@att.net wrote:
> So what would be the correct pressure setting for Duracool at Idle? Wouldn't that be easier than to try to set it at 1500 ??????
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
You really cannot set it at idle. Your compressor just isn't turning enough at idle. You will find that you get some cool at idle but not very much.
Set it at 1500. You can just take a stick of wood and put it against the gas pedal and against the front of the seat and adjust your seat forward to whatever you need for 1500. You move the stick left and right a little until you get the correct speed.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on duracool [message #96103 is a reply to message #95809] |
Mon, 16 August 2010 15:41 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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The stick on the accelerator is what they always did in the old movies when they were putting a car over the cliff to dispose of the body.
Please remember to keep the transmission in park -- you might feel safer chocking the wheels.
Dennis Sexton
73 PD 230
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: 78gmc-royale@att.net
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Mon, Aug 16, 2010 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on duracool
Good ole Emery always has an easy solution, here I was thinking I'd have to adj
he carb idle screw in and out.....shows what a novice I am! LOL. Thanks Emery!
ent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
rom: Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com>
ender: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
ate: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:31:52
o: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
eply-To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
ubject: Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on duracool
n Aug 16, 2010, at 2:24 PM, 78gmc-royale@att.net wrote:
> So what would be the correct pressure setting for Duracool at Idle? Wouldn't
hat be easier than to try to set it at 1500 ??????
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
You really cannot set it at idle. Your compressor just isn't turning enough at
dle. You will find that you get some cool at idle but not very much.
et it at 1500. You can just take a stick of wood and put it against the gas
edal and against the front of the seat and adjust your seat forward to whatever
ou need for 1500. You move the stick left and right a little until you get the
orrect speed.
Emery Stora
7 Kingsley
anta Fe, NM
______________________________________________
MCnet mailing list
ist Information and Subscription Options:
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MCnet mailing list
ist Information and Subscription Options:
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on duracool [message #96106 is a reply to message #96103] |
Mon, 16 August 2010 16:03 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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I could have Lisa sit in the seat and hold down the accelerator but she might be tempted to drop it into drive and run my sorry butt over!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: dennisfsexton@aol.com
Sender: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:41:14
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Reply-To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on duracool
The stick on the accelerator is what they always did in the old movies when they were putting a car over the cliff to dispose of the body.
Please remember to keep the transmission in park -- you might feel safer chocking the wheels.
Dennis Sexton
73 PD 230
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: 78gmc-royale@att.net
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Mon, Aug 16, 2010 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on duracool
Good ole Emery always has an easy solution, here I was thinking I'd have to adj
he carb idle screw in and out.....shows what a novice I am! LOL. Thanks Emery!
ent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
rom: Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com>
ender: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
ate: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:31:52
o: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
eply-To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
ubject: Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on duracool
n Aug 16, 2010, at 2:24 PM, 78gmc-royale@att.net wrote:
> So what would be the correct pressure setting for Duracool at Idle? Wouldn't
hat be easier than to try to set it at 1500 ??????
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
You really cannot set it at idle. Your compressor just isn't turning enough at
dle. You will find that you get some cool at idle but not very much.
et it at 1500. You can just take a stick of wood and put it against the gas
edal and against the front of the seat and adjust your seat forward to whatever
ou need for 1500. You move the stick left and right a little until you get the
orrect speed.
Emery Stora
7 Kingsley
anta Fe, NM
______________________________________________
MCnet mailing list
ist Information and Subscription Options:
ttp://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
______________________________________________
MCnet mailing list
ist Information and Subscription Options:
ttp://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on duracool [message #96119 is a reply to message #96103] |
Mon, 16 August 2010 17:17 |
 |
ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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My cheapo Harbor Freight AC gauges have a hook and they are big enough that I can see them through the windshield. I sit inside and get the motor at 1,500 rpm for a while just to see the pressure. Then I adjust as necessary and recheck.
Larry Davick
On Aug 16, 2010, at 1:41 PM, dennisfsexton@aol.com wrote:
>
> The stick on the accelerator is what they always did in the old movies when they were putting a car over the cliff to dispose of the body.
> Please remember to keep the transmission in park -- you might feel safer chocking the wheels.
>
>
> Dennis Sexton
> 73 PD 230
> Germantown, TN
> USA
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 78gmc-royale@att.net
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Mon, Aug 16, 2010 3:36 pm
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on duracool
>
>
> Good ole Emery always has an easy solution, here I was thinking I'd have to adj
> he carb idle screw in and out.....shows what a novice I am! LOL. Thanks Emery!
> ent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> -----Original Message-----
> rom: Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com>
> ender: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> ate: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:31:52
> o: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> eply-To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> ubject: Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on duracool
>
> n Aug 16, 2010, at 2:24 PM, 78gmc-royale@att.net wrote:
>> So what would be the correct pressure setting for Duracool at Idle? Wouldn't
> hat be easier than to try to set it at 1500 ??????
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> You really cannot set it at idle. Your compressor just isn't turning enough at
> dle. You will find that you get some cool at idle but not very much.
> et it at 1500. You can just take a stick of wood and put it against the gas
> edal and against the front of the seat and adjust your seat forward to whatever
> ou need for 1500. You move the stick left and right a little until you get the
> orrect speed.
> Emery Stora
> 7 Kingsley
> anta Fe, NM
>
> ______________________________________________
> MCnet mailing list
> ist Information and Subscription Options:
> ttp://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> ______________________________________________
> MCnet mailing list
> ist Information and Subscription Options:
> ttp://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on Duracool [message #96355 is a reply to message #95944] |
Wed, 18 August 2010 19:28 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| roy1 wrote on Sun, 15 August 2010 16:51 |
A cold suction line is a pretty good indicator that you are close to where you should be. If it is over 100 degrees like in Arizona the suction pressure would be higher then it would be at say 85 degrees ambient. If you are idling at 1500 and the liquid line is too hot to hold due to not enough air flowing over the condenser your pressure will be higher(a slight mist from a garden hose will help here). If these 2 instances are occurring I would think 30 PSI is pretty close. The only other choice you would have would be to bleed a little off and closely monitor the discharge air and suction line temperature and stop when anything gets warmer then add a little more refrigerant.
Roy
|
Thanks ray--what I was getting at is if I fine tune the Duracool charge for the coldest suction line temp, will that equate to the coldest outlet temps?
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on Duracool [message #96359 is a reply to message #96355] |
Wed, 18 August 2010 20:12 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
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Bob
For the most part the 2 go hand in hand. Yes a colder suction line would give colder vent temperatures but I wouldn't want the suction below 20 lbs or the coil will ice up most certainly. If the ambient air is 100 or more (you are in warm Arizona) I would expect it will probably be around 25-30 lbs . When you checked it before I thought you mentioned it was around 35 lbs@ 1,000 RPM. If you had increased the RPM to 1500 or so the suction pressure should have gotten lower with the compressor pumping more. Don't forget if you aren't moving much air thru the
condenser when you are checking it in your driveway it may be necessary to mist the condenser with a garden hose so your discharge pressure doesn't get too high. If the liquid line is too hot too hold (line coming from the dryer) the condenser needs to be cooled a bit.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on Duracool [message #96381 is a reply to message #96359] |
Wed, 18 August 2010 23:19 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| roy1 wrote on Wed, 18 August 2010 19:12 |
Bob
For the most part the 2 go hand in hand. Yes a colder suction line would give colder vent temperatures but I wouldn't want the suction below 20 lbs or the coil will ice up most certainly. If the ambient air is 100 or more (you are in warm Arizona) I would expect it will probably be around 25-30 lbs . When you checked it before I thought you mentioned it was around 35 lbs@ 1,000 RPM. If you had increased the RPM to 1500 or so the suction pressure should have gotten lower with the compressor pumping more. Don't forget if you aren't moving much air thru the
condenser when you are checking it in your driveway it may be necessary to mist the condenser with a garden hose so your discharge pressure doesn't get too high. If the liquid line is too hot too hold (line coming from the dryer) the condenser needs to be cooled a bit.
Roy
|
Thanks! I'll give it a try this weekend.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ac question, ac on Duracool [message #96389 is a reply to message #96359] |
Thu, 19 August 2010 06:58 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Roy,
That explains why I'm at 30 psi on the suction side of my Caprice
wagon. On the GMC, best outlet temp without icing up was about 25
psi. My Caprice still ices up in humidity above 40% so I guess
another shot of HC12a is in the order.
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 6:12 PM, roy keen <roynpaula@charter.net> wrote:
>
>
> Bob
> For the most part the 2 go hand in hand. Yes a colder suction line would give colder vent temperatures but I wouldn't want the suction below 20 lbs or the coil will ice up most certainly. If the ambient air is 100 or more (you are in warm Arizona) I would expect it will probably be around 25-30 lbs . When you checked it before I thought you mentioned it was around 35 lbs@ 1,000 RPM. If you had increased the RPM to 1500 or so the suction pressure should have gotten lower with the compressor pumping more. Don't forget if you aren't moving much air thru the
> condenser when you are checking it in your driveway it may be necessary to mist the condenser with a garden hose so your discharge pressure doesn't get too high. If the liquid line is too hot too hold (line coming from the dryer) the condenser needs to be cooled a bit.
> Roy
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--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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