Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Another fan clutch story (Trip report from the middle of Illinois)
| Another fan clutch story [message #94887] |
Fri, 06 August 2010 19:20  |
armandminnie
Messages: 864
Registered: May 2009
Location: Marana, AZ
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Trip report so far - the fan clutch is the big issue.
We are driving from Tucson, AZ to the East Coast and back over a planned 6 week period. I have been fighting engine heating problems for some time and, just before we left on this trip, we installed a new aluminum radiator. The fan clutch is a Delco 15-4644 which I installed out of frustration with the old radiator. With the old radiator the Delco clutch would keep it cool enough to drive but normal operating temperature for the engine was about 220 without a tow car and I didn't want to chance towing a car across the country in the summer with those kinds of temperatures.
Since I had been working on the interior I had not had time to test drive the coach and I figured that with the aluminum radiator and the Delco clutch I would at least be safe. I carried my Hayden 2797 with me as a spare.
For three days, all across the Southwest, I could only hear the fan and my wife's complaining. I used a stop watch (on my phone) and found that at 85 degree ambient air temperatures the fan was on about 70 percent of the time. I talked to Steve Ferguson and he suggested I put the Hayden clutch in and I finally had time to do it when we spent two nights in Kansas City.
Wow, what a difference! Steve had suggested that I change both the thermostat - to a 180 degree one - and the fan clutch. I don't really have the time or place to change the thermostat since campgrounds don't want you doing that and, while we could do it in a parking lot I figured why not just change one thing at a time anyway and change the clutch.
The Hayden fan clutch was so quiet that Carol didn't think it was on. When I say "quiet" I mean when compared to the Delco and that Carol couldn't hear it. The trip can continue in peace - it was so bad that it was making the trip less than enjoyable and we thought that if we couldn't improve the situation we might consider cutting the trip short.
My observations (4 days of driving about 6 hours per day) are that the Hayden seems to come on at a lower temperature but rotate at a much reduced rate from the engine RPM. I would have to guess, based on the noise and the engine temperature readings (more on that later) that the Hayden's rate of rotation percentage goes up with the temperature. The Delco on the other hand seems to be either on or off - a close match to the engine RPM even at 60mph. The result is noise - lots of noise with the Delco - and relative quiet; you can hear it but it is hard to distinguish from the engine noise, with the Hayden.
The engine temperatures were much better and steadier with the Hayden. With the Delco, the engine temperature would oscillate between about 190 to 210 and, occasionally, it would get to 215 if it was really hot and we were climbing even an average hill in New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas. With the Delco the temperature virtually never stayed the same for any time at all - it was always moving either up or down. With the Hayden the engine temperature was very steady - at just under 200 - and would only move a little if I was climbing a hill. It never got above 205.
The difference in the weather was pretty notable. With the Delco we drove through ambient air temperatures from low 70's to 105. When the temperature would get to 80 the cycling would begin and the only thing that changed was the rate of temperature climb - when it was hotter the engine got hotter quicker. Today, we left Kansas City with the temperature at about 80 and spent most of the day with it at around 85 and it got to 91 for a little while. The engine temperature stayed steady throughout the day.
Armand Minnie
Marana, AZ
'76 Eleganza II TZE166V103202
visit my gmc blog
click here to visit gmcws.org
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| Re: Another fan clutch story [message #94889 is a reply to message #94887] |
Fri, 06 August 2010 19:44  |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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| armandminnie wrote on Fri, 06 August 2010 20:20 |
Trip report so far - the fan clutch is the big issue.
We are driving from Tucson, AZ to the East Coast and back over a planned 6 week period. I have been fighting engine heating problems for some time and, just before we left on this trip, we installed a new aluminum radiator. The fan clutch is a Delco 15-4644 which I installed out of frustration with the old radiator. With the old radiator the Delco clutch would keep it cool enough to drive but normal operating temperature for the engine was about 220 without a tow car and I didn't want to chance towing a car across the country in the summer with those kinds of temperatures.
Since I had been working on the interior I had not had time to test drive the coach and I figured that with the aluminum radiator and the Delco clutch I would at least be safe. I carried my Hayden 2797 with me as a spare.
For three days, all across the Southwest, I could only hear the fan and my wife's complaining. I used a stop watch (on my phone) and found that at 85 degree ambient air temperatures the fan was on about 70 percent of the time. I talked to Steve Ferguson and he suggested I put the Hayden clutch in and I finally had time to do it when we spent two nights in Kansas City.
Wow, what a difference! Steve had suggested that I change both the thermostat - to a 180 degree one - and the fan clutch. I don't really have the time or place to change the thermostat since campgrounds don't want you doing that and, while we could do it in a parking lot I figured why not just change one thing at a time anyway and change the clutch.
The Hayden fan clutch was so quiet that Carol didn't think it was on. When I say "quiet" I mean when compared to the Delco and that Carol couldn't hear it. The trip can continue in peace - it was so bad that it was making the trip less than enjoyable and we thought that if we couldn't improve the situation we might consider cutting the trip short.
My observations (4 days of driving about 6 hours per day) are that the Hayden seems to come on at a lower temperature but rotate at a much reduced rate from the engine RPM. I would have to guess, based on the noise and the engine temperature readings (more on that later) that the Hayden's rate of rotation percentage goes up with the temperature. The Delco on the other hand seems to be either on or off - a close match to the engine RPM even at 60mph. The result is noise - lots of noise with the Delco - and relative quiet; you can hear it but it is hard to distinguish from the engine noise, with the Hayden.
The engine temperatures were much better and steadier with the Hayden. With the Delco, the engine temperature would oscillate between about 190 to 210 and, occasionally, it would get to 215 if it was really hot and we were climbing even an average hill in New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas. With the Delco the temperature virtually never stayed the same for any time at all - it was always moving either up or down. With the Hayden the engine temperature was very steady - at just under 200 - and would only move a little if I was climbing a hill. It never got above 205.
The difference in the weather was pretty notable. With the Delco we drove through ambient air temperatures from low 70's to 105. When the temperature would get to 80 the cycling would begin and the only thing that changed was the rate of temperature climb - when it was hotter the engine got hotter quicker. Today, we left Kansas City with the temperature at about 80 and spent most of the day with it at around 85 and it got to 91 for a little while. The engine temperature stayed steady throughout the day.
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Sir: good report.... thanks
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Another fan clutch story [message #94894 is a reply to message #94887] |
Fri, 06 August 2010 21:31 |
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you know my electric fan is great, took the rig for another spin, temp stayed at 200 and the fan never came on, only when I got off the highway...
73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
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| Re: Another fan clutch story [message #94901 is a reply to message #94887] |
Fri, 06 August 2010 22:11 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Well I don't even know where to start. When my beloved OEM delco clutch failed in the mountians, it did so within 2 minutes. I installed a 2797 and it didn't work at all. Later I installed another 2787 and it is perfect. I guess my reaction is that it is totally the luck of the draw.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Another fan clutch story [message #94909 is a reply to message #94901] |
Fri, 06 August 2010 23:51 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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We have warrentied more fan clutches than shocks, both Delco and Hayden.
There is not much quality control on them.
Fortunatly we do enough to pay for freight both ways and sometimes give
refund and also for freight charges.
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 8:11 PM, Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Well I don't even know where to start. When my beloved OEM delco clutch
> failed in the mountians, it did so within 2 minutes. I installed a 2797 and
> it didn't work at all. Later I installed another 2787 and it is perfect. I
> guess my reaction is that it is totally the luck of the draw.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: Another fan clutch story [message #95023 is a reply to message #94901] |
Sun, 08 August 2010 09:28 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""Well I don't even know where to start. When my beloved OEM delco clutch failed in the mountians, it did so within 2 minutes. I installed a 2797 and it didn't work at all. Later I installed another 2787 and it is perfect. I guess my reaction is that it is totally the luck of the draw.""
Oops, that should have said: installed another 2797 (not 2787)
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Another fan clutch story [message #95103 is a reply to message #95023] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 09:51 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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My old fan clutch worked great, I never heard it and my engine always ran
cool. Then it failed last year (make & model unknown), I replaced it with a
Delco 15-4644, this new one drove me crazy, continual cycling and like everyone
says, sounds like a 747 when it kicks in. So I replaced it this spring again
with a Delco 15-4208 which the new number is now 15-4947.........I don't like
how this new one was working either, it didn't seem to be doing the job, engine
was running slightly hotter since I installed it.
Now I'm not sure what to do, does anyone have any other recommendations ?????
I just ordered a new Springfield Ignition System from Dick Patterson, wondering
if that will make any difference since he tuned the torque curve to our coaches
specs ??
Comments ?????
Thanks
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale Center Kitchen
TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@AOL.COM>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sun, August 8, 2010 9:28:02 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Another fan clutch story
""Well I don't even know where to start. When my beloved OEM delco clutch failed
in the mountians, it did so within 2 minutes. I installed a 2797 and it didn't
work at all. Later I installed another 2787 and it is perfect. I guess my
reaction is that it is totally the luck of the draw.""
Oops, that should have said: installed another 2797 (not 2787)
--
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Another fan clutch story [message #95109 is a reply to message #95103] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 10:19 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""My old fan clutch worked great, I never heard it and my engine always ran
cool. Then it failed last year (make & model unknown), I replaced it with a
Delco 15-4644, this new one drove me crazy, continual cycling and like everyone
says, sounds like a 747 when it kicks in. So I replaced it this spring again
with a Delco 15-4208 which the new number is now 15-4947.........I don't like
how this new one was working either, it didn't seem to be doing the job, engine
was running slightly hotter since I installed it.
""
Ray, I don't know of a way to get around the noise (at least with the original blades) since it needs to move air. Mine has always cycled and yes it's noisy. If you don't hear it, then it isn't pushing enough air--hence it runs hotter. To me the issue is more of within what range it is cycling--that's what bothered me on the first 2797. The second one seems to cycle about the same as the original Delco (the original had not p/n on it just a stencilled "MH"
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Another fan clutch story [message #95111 is a reply to message #95109] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 10:35 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Hi Bob
We're taking a trip this coming weekend, the new exhaust system is complete and
hopefully the new ignition system will be in by then. I'll leave the existing
one in and see how things go, if it continues to run warm I'll throw the 15-4644
back in.
Thanks for the input.
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale Center Kitchen
TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@AOL.COM>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Mon, August 9, 2010 10:19:46 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Another fan clutch story
""My old fan clutch worked great, I never heard it and my engine always ran
cool. Then it failed last year (make & model unknown), I replaced it with a
Delco 15-4644, this new one drove me crazy, continual cycling and like everyone
says, sounds like a 747 when it kicks in. So I replaced it this spring again
with a Delco 15-4208 which the new number is now 15-4947.........I don't like
how this new one was working either, it didn't seem to be doing the job, engine
was running slightly hotter since I installed it.
""
Ray, I don't know of a way to get around the noise (at least with the original
blades) since it needs to move air. Mine has always cycled and yes it's noisy.
If you don't hear it, then it isn't pushing enough air--hence it runs hotter. To
me the issue is more of within what range it is cycling--that's what bothered me
on the first 2797. The second one seems to cycle about the same as the original
Delco (the original had not p/n on it just a stencilled "MH"
--
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Another fan clutch story [message #95134 is a reply to message #95103] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 15:56 |
Steve Bonfoey
Messages: 10
Registered: April 2006
Location: Peoria, Illinois
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Ray I have the same situation. I replaced the heavy duty fan clutch with the 15-4947 and my running water temperature increased 10 to 15 degrees. Give me a heads up at bonfoeys@sbcglobal.net if you find a solution.
I was thinking about changing the thermostat until I saw your message.
Steve Bonfoey
1976 Eleganza
Peoria, Illinois
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| Re: [GMCnet] Another fan clutch story [message #95148 is a reply to message #95144] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 17:41 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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I like the electric fan idea too Dan, but I didn't follow the thread enough to
understand it, I'll have to backtrack and figure it out when I get the ambition
to do it.
If you have an easy explanation, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks. I would think a continuous good air flow from an electric fan vs a 747
roar every 10 miles would be much better and a lot more consistent.
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale Center Kitchen
TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Mon, August 9, 2010 5:35:16 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Another fan clutch story
Chris, I had one like that. :d Miguel told me it was stuck on.
The one I have now, have never heard it either but I dont run hot. It is an old
Hayden that was a spare with my coach. I want the electric fan setup.
Dan
--
Dan & Teri Gregg
http://danandteri.blogspot.com/
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Another fan clutch story [message #95149 is a reply to message #95147] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 17:46 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""Quiet and cool don't go together in this situation.....when that fan is turning
and locked, you know it LOUD and clear. LOL I would suspect it is not ON
enough.
Ray
""
That's my guess Ray. I think I told the story of my neighbor in the storage facility. His coach has always run 210 on the flat and he thought it was the nature of the beast. When I failed my clutch, I asked if he heard his cycle--he didn't even understand the question since he has never ever heard his fan clutch. He put on a new one and for the first time he heard it come on and his temps now run 185 to 190. He installed the hayden 2797.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Another fan clutch story [message #95151 is a reply to message #95149] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 17:53 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Appreciate the help and input Bob. We're taking a short trip this weekend, if
the new Springfield Ignition comes and I get it in, I'll try it with the
existing one, if not I'll throw the 4644 back on which I think is the same as
your 2797. I'll post the results.
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale Center Kitchen
TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@AOL.COM>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Mon, August 9, 2010 5:46:15 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Another fan clutch story
""Quiet and cool don't go together in this situation.....when that fan is
turning
and locked, you know it LOUD and clear. LOL I would suspect it is not ON
enough.
Ray
""
That's my guess Ray. I think I told the story of my neighbor in the storage
facility. His coach has always run 210 on the flat and he thought it was the
nature of the beast. When I failed my clutch, I asked if he heard his cycle--he
didn't even understand the question since he has never ever heard his fan
clutch. He put on a new one and for the first time he heard it come on and his
temps now run 185 to 190. He installed the hayden 2797.
--
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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_______________________________________________
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Another fan clutch story [message #95155 is a reply to message #95147] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 18:41 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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[quote title=Ray Erspamer wrote on Mon, 09 August 2010 18:38]Quiet and cool don't go together in this situation.....when that fan is turning
and locked, you know it LOUD and clear. LOL I would suspect it is not ON
enough.
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale Center Kitchen
TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
Ray: While I will admit that my coach is not "normal", it is a stock 455 with a 78 403 MH Q-jet. I pull an enclosed trailer with either a golf cart or 2 Harleys. Last spring I noticed my fan clutch was not coming on when starting and upon inspection I found evidence of fluid leaking from the bearing area. I replaced it with Auto Zone Heavy Duty #92-2797. Note same last 4 #s as Delco. They listed 3 different fan clutches, Severe duty @$59, Heavy Duty @$49, and light duty @ $29. When I bought mine it was $39 and has lifetime warranty. Now when I start the coach I can hear the fan but it is not any louder than the air compressor. When I am pulling hills and the stock temp gauge goes a little past 1/4 I can hear the clutch as the temp goes back down but it is not loud enough to interupt a conversation. I have stock exhaust manifolds and muffler shop aluminized exhaust with twin turbo mufflers. The coach is really quiet and runs cool.
This is my story and I`m sticking to it.....
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Another fan clutch story [message #95171 is a reply to message #95155] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 21:11 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""Ray: While I will admit that my coach is not "normal", it is a stock 455 with a 78 403 MH Q-jet. I pull an enclosed trailer with either a golf cart or 2 Harleys. Last spring I noticed my fan clutch was not coming on when starting and upon inspection I found evidence of fluid leaking from the bearing area. I replaced it with Auto Zone Heavy Duty #92-2797. Note same last 4 #s as Delco. They listed 3 different fan clutches, Severe duty @$59, Heavy Duty @$49, and light duty @ $29. When I bought mine it was $39 and has lifetime warranty. Now when I start the coach I can hear the fan but it is not any louder than the air compressor. When I am pulling hills and the stock temp gauge goes a little past 1/4 I can hear the clutch as the temp goes back down but it is not loud enough to interupt a conversation. I have stock exhaust manifolds and muffler shop aluminized exhaust with twin turbo mufflers. The coach is really quiet and runs cool.
This is my story and I`m sticking to it..... ""
I'm sure that's the same clutch and it seems like it's acting normally. Now as far as the noise, one of our members suggested that the fan noise can be greatly exacerbated by hatch sealing and insulation. I agree with that and it may explain why some of us don't mind the noise while others find it too loud. Also, noise is extremely subjective. My feeling is that if the clutch is cycling, it's going to generate about the same noise between coaches--it's just how much gets to the driver's ear.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Miguel told me it was stuck on.