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| Isolation pads on a 78 [message #94239] |
Sun, 01 August 2010 21:02  |
pzerkel
Messages: 212
Registered: September 2007
Location: Salisbury, IL
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I am trying to replace the body isolation pads on my 78 Eleganza.
All eight of the nuts holding on the four U-brackets just spin the bolt when I try to remove them.
So far I have:
1) spent two weeks with near daily penetrating oil.
2) chased threads with re-threading nuts
3) tried to get vise-grips on bolt, while loosening nut (I could not get vise-grip tight enough to prevent the bolt turning).
4) Tried a nut splitter. First there was no room for a nut splitter. I then Dremeled out a 2"x3" area of the aluminum outboard of the frame rails, so that I could get a nut splitter on the nut, perpendicular to the frame rail.
When I went to tighten the nut splitter it kept slipping off the nut. Eventually the "little round thing" with the flat head that (smashes the flat side of nut) came out of nut splitter. I could sort of put it back long enough to get splitter on the nut, but it kept slipping. The nut splitter I was using pretty much looked like the compact one listed on the below linked McMaster/Carr page.
While it's more than I really want to spend for this, I am seriously considering the $131 heavy-duty splitter on this page:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#nut-splitters/=87wxhs
But I would really want to be sure it would work before I spent that kind of money
5) I have also tried to Dremel a slot in a flat of the nut (using right-angle Dremel attachment), and then hit that with a cold chisel and hammer. That seemed to have no affect. It was hard to get much force on the hammer while laying on the creeper.
6) I have tried to just jack up the body without loosening the nuts. I simply could not get enough clearance to slip the new pads in that way. I t appears to me that the nuts simply must come off. The new pads I have are about ~ 3/4" thick. I have been told that these are the only thickness currently available. But I also believe the 78's came with a slightly thinner pad. The few pads I do have left would seem to confirm that (or else they have been squished a lot in the past 32 years).
I have not tried a torch. Frankly the proximity to the wood floor, and the very flammable insulation makes me think that would be a very bad idea.
As I said, it seems I simply must get these nuts off. But I am running out of ideas. At this point I am wondering if a different nut splitter (preferably not as expensive as the $131 one) may work. But at this point I would just like any advice as to what to try next.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Paul Zerkel
'78 Eleganza II
Salisbury IL (near Springfield)
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| Re: Isolation pads on a 78 [message #94258 is a reply to message #94239] |
Mon, 02 August 2010 00:19  |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| pzerkel wrote on Sun, 01 August 2010 19:02 |
...
6) I have tried to just jack up the body without loosening the nuts. I simply could not get enough clearance ...
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I have not done this chore... yet.
BUT...
I have been told that jacking the body MIGHT hold the
carriage bolts from turning in the floor, when trying to loosen the nuts. It could happen...
Good luck!
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: Isolation pads on a 78 [message #94262 is a reply to message #94239] |
Mon, 02 August 2010 00:58 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| pzerkel wrote on Sun, 01 August 2010 21:02 |
I am trying to replace the body isolation pads on my 78 Eleganza.
All eight of the nuts holding on the four U-brackets just spin the bolt when I try to remove them.
So far I have:
1) spent two weeks with near daily penetrating oil.
2) chased threads with re-threading nuts
3) tried to get vise-grips on bolt, while loosening nut (I could not get vise-grip tight enough to prevent the bolt turning).
4) Tried a nut splitter. First there was no room for a nut splitter. I then Dremeled out a 2"x3" area of the aluminum outboard of the frame rails, so that I could get a nut splitter on the nut, perpendicular to the frame rail.
When I went to tighten the nut splitter it kept slipping off the nut. Eventually the "little round thing" with the flat head that (smashes the flat side of nut) came out of nut splitter. I could sort of put it back long enough to get splitter on the nut, but it kept slipping. The nut splitter I was using pretty much looked like the compact one listed on the below linked McMaster/Carr page.
While it's more than I really want to spend for this, I am seriously considering the $131 heavy-duty splitter on this page:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#nut-splitters/=87wxhs
But I would really want to be sure it would work before I spent that kind of money
5) I have also tried to Dremel a slot in a flat of the nut (using right-angle Dremel attachment), and then hit that with a cold chisel and hammer. That seemed to have no affect. It was hard to get much force on the hammer while laying on the creeper.
6) I have tried to just jack up the body without loosening the nuts. I simply could not get enough clearance to slip the new pads in that way. I t appears to me that the nuts simply must come off. The new pads I have are about ~ 3/4" thick. I have been told that these are the only thickness currently available. But I also believe the 78's came with a slightly thinner pad. The few pads I do have left would seem to confirm that (or else they have been squished a lot in the past 32 years).
I have not tried a torch. Frankly the proximity to the wood floor, and the very flammable insulation makes me think that would be a very bad idea.
As I said, it seems I simply must get these nuts off. But I am running out of ideas. At this point I am wondering if a different nut splitter (preferably not as expensive as the $131 one) may work. But at this point I would just like any advice as to what to try next.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
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Six thoughts:
1. Cut yourself some new thinner pads and install them. I was able to install new pads on my 1976 WITHOUT removing the bolts. I just jacked up on the body. I originally had the thicker pads.
2. Double nut the end of the bolts and turn them with a 3/8" drive impact wrench while holding on the stubborn nut with another wrench. If you can not get a wrench on the stubborn nut, you may have to custom bend a box end wrench to make it a deep offset style wrench to fit down there on the nut. If you do custom bend one use a 6 point box end, not a 12 point box end.
3. The brackets you are trying to unbolt are held to the frame with two horizontal bolts. How about unbolting the brackets from the frame. I have seen people do that at Bean Station and Hamilton.
4. If you are not soaking them with Kroil, then soak them with Kroil once a day for 5 days.
5. Jack up on the body to hold the carriage bolt in place while removing the nuts.
6. Weld a flat washer vertical on the end of the bolt so you have something to hold on to. You can hold the washer with an adjustable wrench. Put the box end on the bolt BEFORE welding the washer.
That is the end of my ideas.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
[Updated on: Mon, 02 August 2010 12:28] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Isolation pads on a 78 [message #94298 is a reply to message #94288] |
Mon, 02 August 2010 09:25 |
pzerkel
Messages: 212
Registered: September 2007
Location: Salisbury, IL
Karma: 0
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Larry,
How thick were the new replacement pads you used? And if they were less than 3/4" can you tell me where you got them from?
Thank You,
Paul Zerkel
'78 Eleganza II
Salisbury IL (near Springfield)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Isolation pads on a 78 [message #94309 is a reply to message #94303] |
Mon, 02 August 2010 10:37 |
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I had the same problem and all of the same things you have tried except trying a nut splitter. I ended up grinding down the thickness of a couple of nuts so that when I jammed one against the other the flats lined up. Then, holding the jam nuts with as I recall a socket I was able to hold the bolt in place while I turned the stubborn nut.
This, of course, after I learned from Ken Burton that I should have first jacked up the body in the area of the bolt and then used an impact wrench to remove the nut. This is the technique I would use if I were ever faced with doing this again.
I think it helps to understand that the bolts that go into the body are carriage bolts that are set into a flat washer that is about 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 " in diameter. The hole where the bolt is set is off center and the washer is countersunk into a close fitting recess in the floor. By virtue of the bolt being off center the washer will not turn. Putting upward pressure on the body keeps the washer down into the retaining recess. Hopefully this makes sense. Here a good picture would be worth a bunch of words.
It really would be a good time to replace the body pads when the interior is stripped and the carpet is removed. I learned the hard way.
Bill Brown - '77 Buckeye Cruiser
Coshocton OH
carguybill@sbcglobal.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Isolation pads on a 78 [message #94329 is a reply to message #94323] |
Mon, 02 August 2010 13:22 |
pzerkel
Messages: 212
Registered: September 2007
Location: Salisbury, IL
Karma: 0
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| emerystora wrote on Mon, 02 August 2010 12:35 |
On Aug 1, 2010, at 8:02 PM, Paul Zerkel wrote:
Paul
Have you tried to jack up the body without taking off the nuts?
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Yep. There was no way I was going to get the thick pads in that way. It is a very small sample set of anecdotal data, but I note that the you and the other poster who said they were able to do it that way both had '77s, and the one other person who said he had as much trouble as me had a '78.
I will try the jack body then remove nut method this evening.
Paul Zerkel
'78 Eleganza II
Salisbury IL (near Springfield)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Isolation pads on a 78 [message #94330 is a reply to message #94329] |
Mon, 02 August 2010 13:31 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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There should be no difference between the frames and bodies between a 77 and a 78.
On Aug 2, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Paul Zerkel wrote:
>
>
> emerystora wrote on Mon, 02 August 2010 12:35
>> On Aug 1, 2010, at 8:02 PM, Paul Zerkel wrote:
>>
>> Paul
>> Have you tried to jack up the body without taking off the nuts?
>
>
> Yep. There was no way I was going to get the thick pads in that way. It is a very small sample set of anecdotal data, but I note that the you and the other poster who said they were able to do it that way both had '77s, and the one other person who said he had as much trouble as me had a '78.
>
> I will try the jack body then remove nut method this evening.
> --
> Paul Zerkel
> '78 Eleganza II
> Salisbury IL (near Springfield)
> _______________________________________________
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Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: Isolation pads on a 78 [message #94371 is a reply to message #94298] |
Mon, 02 August 2010 20:21 |
jhb1
Messages: 303
Registered: February 2004
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Hi
I changed mine with a set I got from JimB at the COOP was fairly easy to do just jacked the body beside were they were going one at a time about 4 hours including coffee breaks BIG IMPROVEMENT
John H. Bell
77 Royale; QuadBag,Manny OneTon,Honda EV4010, FITech
Montreal Qc.
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| Re: Isolation pads on a 78 [message #94390 is a reply to message #94239] |
Mon, 02 August 2010 22:07 |
pzerkel
Messages: 212
Registered: September 2007
Location: Salisbury, IL
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Well thanks for everyone's suggestions.
Jacking the body did not work for me, but I was using a hand ratchet not an impact wrench. I have an impact wrench, but no 9/16" deep-well impact socket. I'll look for one of those tomorrow.
In the meantime, with a replacement nut splitter and a little more work with the cold chisel I did get one nut off. That nut was pretty mangled up from the previous nut splitter attempt. One down, seven to go.
Paul Zerkel
'78 Eleganza II
Salisbury IL (near Springfield)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Isolation pads on a 78 [message #94394 is a reply to message #94258] |
Mon, 02 August 2010 22:23 |
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Someone that hadn't tried it theorized that answer. It doesn't always work.
Ask a few of us how we know.
Byron Songer
1978 Royale by Coachmen
Louisville, KY
Personal - http://web.me.com/bnsonger
Eastern States - http://www.gmceast.com
Mike Miller wrote:
>
>
> pzerkel wrote on Sun, 01 August 2010 19:02
>> ...
>> 6) I have tried to just jack up the body without loosening the nuts. I simply
>> could not get enough clearance ...
>
>
> I have not done this chore... yet.
>
> BUT...
>
> I have been told that jacking the body MIGHT hold the
> carriage bolts from turning in the floor, when trying to loosen the nuts. It
> could happen...
>
> Good luck!
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Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Isolation pads on a 78 [message #94404 is a reply to message #94390] |
Mon, 02 August 2010 22:51 |
gmcrv1
Messages: 839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Memphis
Karma: -1
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Paul,
On occasion, Wally-World has a nice set of Stanley deep impact sockets for
around $20.
Just don't tell my Snap-On guy I said that.
Tom Eckert N2VWN
72 Glacier
Oakland, TN
On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Paul Zerkel <gmc2@zerkelhome.com> wrote:
>
>
> Well thanks for everyone's suggestions.
>
> Jacking the body did not work for me, but I was using a hand ratchet not an
> impact wrench. I have an impact wrench, but no 9/16" deep-well impact
> socket. I'll look for one of those tomorrow.
>
> In the meantime, with a replacement nut splitter and a little more work
> with the cold chisel I did get one nut off. That nut was pretty mangled up
> from the previous nut splitter attempt. One down, seven to go.
>
> --
> Paul Zerkel
> '78 Eleganza II
> Salisbury IL (near Springfield)
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Isolation pads on a 78 [message #96990 is a reply to message #94404] |
Mon, 23 August 2010 22:41 |
pzerkel
Messages: 212
Registered: September 2007
Location: Salisbury, IL
Karma: 0
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Progress Report...
So far 11 of the pads are in (I am using the thick pads). I used a nut splitter on all eight nuts holding the U-brackets.
All the pads in front of rear wheels are in, as is the very rear one on the driver's side. I had to loosen the rear body mount nuts to get the rear one in. I will likely need to remove the muffler tailpipe to get to those nuts on the passenger side.
The two stacked pads between the rear wheels, I am not exactly sure where they go (on cross member or along the frame?).
This has been one of those projects that has revealed several other projects: crushed fuel line, chafed insulation on macerator 12v wire, and marginal condition of radiator hoses running to water heater.
I will report again, when the pads are all in. For me this has NOT been a four hour project, I envy those of you for whom it was.
But thanks to everyone for the advice.
Paul Zerkel
'78 Eleganza II
Salisbury IL (near Springfield)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Isolation pads on a 78 [message #97000 is a reply to message #96990] |
Tue, 24 August 2010 09:41 |
ejuk8em
Messages: 90
Registered: July 2010
Karma: 0
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Hi Paul,
Why do these pads need replacing? Do they wear out or just get brittle over time?
Lyle
Lyle A. Rigdon, Retired Superintendent
'73 Pineapple Yellow Sequoia
Pawnee, IL 62558
Pawnee Pride - Live It!
--- On Mon, 8/23/10, Paul Zerkel <gmc2@zerkelhome.com> wrote:
From: Paul Zerkel <gmc2@zerkelhome.com>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Isolation pads on a 78
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Monday, August 23, 2010, 10:41 PM
Progress Report...
So far 11 of the pads are in (I am using the thick pads). I used a nut splitter on all eight nuts holding the U-brackets.
All the pads in front of rear wheels are in, as is the very rear one on the driver's side. I had to loosen the rear body mount nuts to get the rear one in. I will likely need to remove the muffler tailpipe to get to those nuts on the passenger side.
The two stacked pads between the rear wheels, I am not exactly sure where they go (on cross member or along the frame?).
This has been one of those projects that has revealed several other projects: crushed fuel line, chafed insulation on macerator 12v wire, and marginal condition of radiator hoses running to water heater.
I will report again, when the pads are all in. For me this has NOT been a four hour project, I envy those of you for whom it was.
But thanks to everyone for the advice.
--
Paul Zerkel
'78 Eleganza II
Salisbury IL (near Springfield)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Isolation pads on a 78 [message #97004 is a reply to message #96990] |
Tue, 24 August 2010 10:33 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| pzerkel wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 20:41 |
...
This has been one of those projects that has revealed several other projects: crushed fuel line, chafed insulation on macerator 12v wire, and marginal condition of radiator hoses running to water heater.
I will report again, when the pads are all in. For me this has NOT been a four hour project, I envy those of you for whom it was.
...
|
While I haven't done THIS particular project, it sounds like almost EVERY project I have done lately!
Yesterday, I went to figure out why my wipers stop working after one sweep. ...I now have my dash in many little pieces.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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