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| New refrigerant [message #93006] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 18:05  |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
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Just came across this:
"General Motors announced it will switch to a new refrigerant for all 2013 Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick, and GMC models.
The new gas, HFO-1234yf, breaks down far faster in the atmosphere than today's R-134a, and will reduce the amount of airborne refrigerant from the new cars by more than 99 percent.
Supplied by Honeywell, the greenhouse-gas-friendly HFO-1234yf refrigerant breaks down in just 11 days, versus its predecessor's 13 years. This cuts its rating on the global warming potential (GWP) index from more than 1,400 to just 4."
Emery--have any idea what this stuff is?
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] New refrigerant [message #93007 is a reply to message #93006] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 18:20  |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
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On Jul 23, 2010, at 5:05 PM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
>
>
> Just came across this:
>
> "General Motors announced it will switch to a new refrigerant for all 2013 Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick, and GMC models.
>
> The new gas, HFO-1234yf, breaks down far faster in the atmosphere than today's R-134a, and will reduce the amount of airborne refrigerant from the new cars by more than 99 percent.
>
> Supplied by Honeywell, the greenhouse-gas-friendly HFO-1234yf refrigerant breaks down in just 11 days, versus its predecessor's 13 years. This cuts its rating on the global warming potential (GWP) index from more than 1,400 to just 4."
>
>
> Emery--have any idea what this stuff is?
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
I don't know much about it yet. Apparently it was jointly developed by duPont and Honeywell. It is a fluorocarbon. It apparently y shas similar properties to R134a in a cooling system. It has some flammability so it would not meet the standards of some states (those that have a problem with Duracool).
It was presented at a coolng conference in Detroit back in 2008 so I am a little surprised that it has taken 2 years to get more press.
We'll have to wait and see. I believe that it is being pushed for factory fill because it is less of a problem as a greenhouse gas than R134ra is.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: New refrigerant [message #93008 is a reply to message #93006] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 18:34 |
GeorgeRud
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Location: Chicago, IL
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My reading seems to indicate that it is being touted because of it's low greenhouse gas contribution. Europe is requiring lower greenhouse gases, and so legislation seems to be driving the changeover.
As it is also flammable, is it really any "better" than using Duracool? It's MSDS sheet is available online, and it doesn't really look all that different than the other refrigerants.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] New refrigerant [message #93010 is a reply to message #93006] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 18:34 |
Ken Henderson
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Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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A little Googling, as expected, shows that it's another fiasco: A "drop-in"
replacement which may require different lubricants, does require different
recovery, recharge and detection equipment, with new constraints on how the
equipment must operate -- meaning increased costs for everyone. All for a
compound which supposedly will deteriorate in the atmosphere in 14 days.
Sometimes I'm glad most of my years are behind me.
Ken H.
On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 7:05 PM, Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@aol.com> wrote:
> HFO-1234yf
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Ken Henderson
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] New refrigerant [message #93014 is a reply to message #93008] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 18:41 |
ejuk8em
Messages: 90
Registered: July 2010
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Speaking of refrigerant, does anyone know how many ounces of 134a it takes to convert a dash air system?
Thanks,
Lyle
Lyle A. Rigdon, Retired Superintendent
Pawnee, IL 62558
Pawnee Pride - Live It!
--- On Fri, 7/23/10, George Rudawsky <GeorgeRud@aol.com> wrote:
From: George Rudawsky <GeorgeRud@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] New refrigerant
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Friday, July 23, 2010, 6:34 PM
My reading seems to indicate that it is being touted because of it's low greenhouse gas contribution. Europe is requiring lower greenhouse gases, and so legislation seems to be driving the changeover.
As it is also flammable, is it really any "better" than using Duracool? It's MSDS sheet is available online, and it doesn't really look all that different than the other refrigerants.
--
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] New refrigerant [message #93016 is a reply to message #93014] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 18:50 |
Ken Henderson
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Location: Americus, GA
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A little less than 3 cans of HC-12a. Don't know, nor want to, about R134a
'cause it costs more and doesn't work as well and requires changing too much
of the old R12 system.
Ken H.
On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 7:41 PM, Lyle A. Rigdon <ejuk8em@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Speaking of refrigerant, does anyone know how many ounces of 134a it takes
> to convert a dash air system?
> Thanks,
> Lyle
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] New refrigerant [message #93058 is a reply to message #93010] |
Sat, 24 July 2010 10:34 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
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Speaking of refrigerants, I just ordered several cans of Duracool. My curiosity got the better of me. Like I've mentioned earlier, I have been running R134 for years with good success and have been waiting for some kind of issue that will make it a good time to switch. Well, I'm just going to bleed it off and install Duracool and get on with it. I'll take some comparative temperature readings--probably in a couple of weeks.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] New refrigerant [message #93061 is a reply to message #93059] |
Sat, 24 July 2010 10:53 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
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""Bob, I switched a year ago from R12 to 12a Duracool. My temps using a
gun 2 inches from the Vent, directed at the back of the Duct, run
between 27 and 30. How it gets so cold without freezing up is beyond me.
If I had a blower with more umph I could really cool the coach.""
Yes, the success stories are just too difficult to ignore !
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] was New refrigerant now Not So New Refrigerant [message #93067 is a reply to message #93061] |
Sat, 24 July 2010 11:46 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
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On Jul 24, 2010, at 9:53 AM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
>
>
> ""Bob, I switched a year ago from R12 to 12a Duracool. My temps using a
> gun 2 inches from the Vent, directed at the back of the Duct, run
> between 27 and 30. How it gets so cold without freezing up is beyond me.
> If I had a blower with more umph I could really cool the coach.""
>
>
> Yes, the success stories are just too difficult to ignore !
>
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
It is really interesting to see how the acceptance of using Duracool (HC12a) has grown among GMCers. But it took about 8 to 10 years.
Looking back at some of the email on the use of Duracool it seems that Mark Andreasen was the pioneer of its use in his GMC and that was way back in 2000. He and I communicated on it a bit at that time and then Gary Berry, Steve Ferguson and Charles Wersal all became interested. I installed mine back in early 2001 but at that time there were many messages on the GMCnet about how it violated the law, we were opening ourselves up to potential fires in our motorhomes, and other doom and gloom messages. I won't post the names of the nay sayers or their often abusive messages but I still have them in my files. I wonder if any of them have changed their minds by now?
In 2003 I did a major upgrade on my air conditioning system by installing an aux. evaporator and blower and then I gave a seminar on the use of
Duracool at the GMC Western States Osoyoos rally in BC, Canada in 2003. At that time I installed Duracool in 5 other GMCs (charging only for the cost of the Duracool) but then ran out of product.
In September 2009 I gave an updated seminar on its use at the GMCMI convention at Pueblo. I brought three cases (36 cans) of it with me and installed it in 12 GMCs there during the convention, again charging only for the cost of the Duracool. If I had brought more cans with me I could have installed more as there were a lot of people that wanted it.
Put it in, Bob. I think that you will love it!
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] was New refrigerant now Not So New Refrigerant [message #93068 is a reply to message #93067] |
Sat, 24 July 2010 11:50 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
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Best stuff I've ever used!
On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com> wrote:
>
> On Jul 24, 2010, at 9:53 AM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> ""Bob, I switched a year ago from R12 to 12a Duracool. My temps using a
>> gun 2 inches from the Vent, directed at the back of the Duct, run
>> between 27 and 30. How it gets so cold without freezing up is beyond me.
>> If I had a blower with more umph I could really cool the coach.""
>>
>>
>> Yes, the success stories are just too difficult to ignore !
>>
>> --
>> Bob de Kruyff
>
> It is really interesting to see how the acceptance of using Duracool (HC12a) has grown among GMCers. But it took about 8 to 10 years.
>
> Looking back at some of the email on the use of Duracool it seems that Mark Andreasen was the pioneer of its use in his GMC and that was way back in 2000. He and I communicated on it a bit at that time and then Gary Berry, Steve Ferguson and Charles Wersal all became interested. I installed mine back in early 2001 but at that time there were many messages on the GMCnet about how it violated the law, we were opening ourselves up to potential fires in our motorhomes, and other doom and gloom messages. I won't post the names of the nay sayers or their often abusive messages but I still have them in my files. I wonder if any of them have changed their minds by now?
>
> In 2003 I did a major upgrade on my air conditioning system by installing an aux. evaporator and blower and then I gave a seminar on the use of
> Duracool at the GMC Western States Osoyoos rally in BC, Canada in 2003. At that time I installed Duracool in 5 other GMCs (charging only for the cost of the Duracool) but then ran out of product.
>
> In September 2009 I gave an updated seminar on its use at the GMCMI convention at Pueblo. I brought three cases (36 cans) of it with me and installed it in 12 GMCs there during the convention, again charging only for the cost of the Duracool. If I had brought more cans with me I could have installed more as there were a lot of people that wanted it.
>
> Put it in, Bob. I think that you will love it!
>
>
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] was New refrigerant now Not So New Refrigerant [message #93078 is a reply to message #93067] |
Sat, 24 July 2010 14:55 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""It is really interesting to see how the acceptance of using Duracool (HC12a) has grown among GMCers. But it took about 8 to 10 years.
"" Frankly it took me a while but I was never concerned about the legal aspects, but had a minor concern about flammability but I'm over it. I think it took me a while because mine was working OK as is but time to move forward!!
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] New refrigerant [message #93190 is a reply to message #93014] |
Sun, 25 July 2010 16:13 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
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| ejuk8em wrote on Fri, 23 July 2010 19:41 |
Speaking of refrigerant, does anyone know how many ounces of 134a it takes to convert a dash air system?
Thanks,
Lyle
Lyle A. Rigdon, Retired Superintendent
Pawnee, IL 62558
Pawnee Pride - Live It!
|
Lyle,
If you have the correct receiver/dryer, there is a window in the top. The flow in that window will never go solid, but at about 32 oz, it starts to be regular and is pretty good at 36. I stopped there because this was a temporary fill to hold me until my HC-12 shows up.
Recently, I had to dump my system to work on the compressor and in the process found out that the oil supplied in the conversion kits is the wrong weight and way too little quantity. The A6 compressor needs 10oz of PAG 150 and that does not include the hang up.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] New refrigerant [message #93191 is a reply to message #93059] |
Sun, 25 July 2010 16:19 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Richard MacDonald wrote on Sat, 24 July 2010 11:40 |
Bob, I switched a year ago from R12 to 12a Duracool. My temps using a gun 2 inches from the Vent, directed at the back of the Duct, run between 27 and 30. How it gets so cold without freezing up is beyond me.
If I had a blower with more umph I could really cool the coach.
The other big benefit was not having to replace all of my hoses which were leaking bad with R12.
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Richard,
To answer your question about 27~30*F..
First - Infrareds are not real reliable at those temperatures.
Second - Standing water freezes at 32*F. If you keep it moving you can sub-cool to 27* - Just don't let it STOP moving.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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