Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » ETHANOL SPELLS DOOM????
| ETHANOL SPELLS DOOM???? [message #92961] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 08:57  |
Michael Bozardt
Messages: 367
Registered: January 2007
Location: College Station, Texas
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Some are proposing an increase in ethanol content in our fuel, like 15% or more.
As my GMC stopped running on the way back to Houston from Pueblo last November with only 10% ethanol fuel, I wonder how long before this product will halt us permanently.
Not to be an alarmist, just thinking out loud but we should do all we can to prevent ethanol from harming out coaches. In my case, the carb was gummed up due to ethanol and the engine quit and would not restart. After getting towed in outside El Paso, they sprayed the carb with Gummout and I drove home. Later, when driving to my home from my shop, it sputtered and coughed again, so I replaced it with a Paterson carb.
Now I am in the process of changing rubber hoses and adding an electric fuel pump with two inline filters. I must also drop the fuel tanks and have them cleaned to avoid ethanol loosening stuff in the tanks. Found out that dropping the tanks is not as big a job as I thought(dropped two to sell recently).
Other ideas for protecting our GMCs have been posted to this site and bear repeating for newbies and others who may not have seen them.............Michael at GEMRECS
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| Re: ETHANOL SPELLS DOOM???? [message #92964 is a reply to message #92961] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 09:57  |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Michael Bozardt wrote on Fri, 23 July 2010 07:57 |
Some are proposing an increase in ethanol content in our fuel, like 15% or more.
As my GMC stopped running on the way back to Houston from Pueblo last November with only 10% ethanol fuel, I wonder how long before this product will halt us permanently.
Not to be an alarmist, just thinking out loud but we should do all we can to prevent ethanol from harming out coaches. In my case, the carb was gummed up due to ethanol and the engine quit and would not restart. After getting towed in outside El Paso, they sprayed the carb with Gummout and I drove home. Later, when driving to my home from my shop, it sputtered and coughed again, so I replaced it with a Paterson carb.
Now I am in the process of changing rubber hoses and adding an electric fuel pump with two inline filters. I must also drop the fuel tanks and have them cleaned to avoid ethanol loosening stuff in the tanks. Found out that dropping the tanks is not as big a job as I thought(dropped two to sell recently).
Other ideas for protecting our GMCs have been posted to this site and bear repeating for newbies and others who may not have seen them.............Michael at GEMRECS
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Luckily the 15% idea has been posponed for a while, but we know it's coming. I had some fuel problems recently in our 110F heat, but it turned out to be a failed electric pump and a bad fuel hose before the mechanical pump Once I replaced the fuel hose, I haven't had to use the electric pump. However, it's quite possible that those 2 failures were aggravated by the ethanol.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] ETHANOL SPELLS DOOM???? [message #92968 is a reply to message #92965] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 11:05 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Your graphics may appear on the Forum, but they cannot reach the GMCNet
email users. We'd appreciate it if you'd post them at GMCMHPhotos and
provide a link so we can see them too.
Thanks,
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Ken Wolkens <kwolkens@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Yes Ethanol spells doom. At this point we all need to be replacing lines
> and such with compatible materials.
>
> Here's a piece of hose that I found in a bass boat that was only 5 years
> old.
>
> Here's the Hose section as it should be.
>
>
>
> Hose section showing collapsed inner liner.
>
>
>
> Hose slit open to show collapsed liner. Liner was collapsed for about 2
> feet.
>
>
>
> Here's who makes it.
>
>
> --
> 1973 GMC 23'
> All Birch and Maple Interior Cabinetry. TZE033V100221
> "The Honeycomb Hideout"
>
>
_______________________________________________
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] ETHANOL SPELLS DOOM???? [message #92981 is a reply to message #92976] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 14:03 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Thanks. Depressing, isn't it? And to think the EPA's going to approve 15%
ethanol pretty soon -- just want to finish testing the effects on vehicles
build AFTER 2007! What about all those before????!!!
You must not be familiar with the repository for all GMC motorhome
photographs: www.gmcmhphotos.com All you have to do to post is sign up.
Then set aside a couple of weeks to do nothing but browse all the great
photos of projects, ideas, suggestions, and revelations like yours that have
been posted during the past few years.
Thanks to Billy Massey.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 1:45 PM, Ken Wolkens <kwolkens@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Please send me a link to the site you would like my photos posted to. If I
> have permissions, I'll do it.
>
> Until I get them over there, here are the links to where I have them now.
> Just copy and paste to your web browser.
>
> Here's the Hose section as it should be.
>
> http://i29.tinypic.com/ml3xi9.jpg
>
> Hose section showing collapsed inner liner.
>
> http://i28.tinypic.com/5d6p2t.jpg
>
> Hose slit open to show collapsed liner. Liner was collapsed for about 2
> feet.
>
> http://i25.tinypic.com/25kopph.jpg
>
> Here's who makes it.
>
> http://i31.tinypic.com/et9xg1.jpg
>
> Here's the O-ring
>
>
> --
> 1973 GMC 23'
> All Birch and Maple Interior Cabinetry. TZE033V100221
> "The Honeycomb Hideout"
>
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] ETHANOL SPELLS DOOM???? [message #92983 is a reply to message #92981] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 14:08 |
Richard MacDonald
Messages: 47
Registered: July 2010
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Ken, Are the EFI/TBI Engines affected like the Carbs? By that I mean
Vapor lock etc., I do understand what it does to seals and the lower BTU's
.
On 7/23/2010 3:03 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
> Ken,
>
> Thanks. Depressing, isn't it? And to think the EPA's going to approve 15%
> ethanol pretty soon -- just want to finish testing the effects on vehicles
> build AFTER 2007! What about all those before????!!!
>
> You must not be familiar with the repository for all GMC motorhome
> photographs: www.gmcmhphotos.com All you have to do to post is sign up.
> Then set aside a couple of weeks to do nothing but browse all the great
> photos of projects, ideas, suggestions, and revelations like yours that have
> been posted during the past few years.
>
> Thanks to Billy Massey.
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 1:45 PM, Ken Wolkens<kwolkens@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Please send me a link to the site you would like my photos posted to. If I
>> have permissions, I'll do it.
>>
>> Until I get them over there, here are the links to where I have them now.
>> Just copy and paste to your web browser.
>>
>> Here's the Hose section as it should be.
>>
>> http://i29.tinypic.com/ml3xi9.jpg
>>
>> Hose section showing collapsed inner liner.
>>
>> http://i28.tinypic.com/5d6p2t.jpg
>>
>> Hose slit open to show collapsed liner. Liner was collapsed for about 2
>> feet.
>>
>> http://i25.tinypic.com/25kopph.jpg
>>
>> Here's who makes it.
>>
>> http://i31.tinypic.com/et9xg1.jpg
>>
>> Here's the O-ring
>>
>>
>> --
>> 1973 GMC 23'
>> All Birch and Maple Interior Cabinetry. TZE033V100221
>> "The Honeycomb Hideout"
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] ETHANOL SPELLS DOOM???? [message #92985 is a reply to message #92983] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 14:28 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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|
Richard,
In general, no, fuel injection is not subject to vapor lock. With no fuel
bowl, there can be no vapor lock (or "burping" as some call it) there. That
leaves in the fuel lines. As you know, using a pusher pump back by the
tanks was in the past an almost sure cure for vapor lock problems, even with
those pumps putting out only 5-7 psi, because, like a radiator, the boiling
point temperature was increased. Ethanol and the other changes to modern
gasoline may have rendered that solution less effective, from the troubles
some folks are reporting.
With EFI, higher pressure pumps, in the 30+ psi range, make it even harder
for fuel to vaporize downstream from them. BUT, they can be difficult to
prime on the suction side, so they can themselves (rarely) be prone to
"vapor lock". That's one reason most fuel injected vehicles have in-tank
fuel pumps. And that's where we're headed in the GMC: Bill Bramlett worked
out most of the kinks a couple of years ago and now Emery Stora's polishing
it up and preparing to tell us all how to do it. Come to Du Quoin and get
the "straight skinny". :-)
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Richard MacDonald <76edgemonte@gmail.com>wrote:
> Ken, Are the EFI/TBI Engines affected like the Carbs? By that I mean
> Vapor lock etc., I do understand what it does to seals and the lower BTU's
> ...
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] ETHANOL SPELLS DOOM???? [message #92988 is a reply to message #92986] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 14:46 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| comcast wrote on Fri, 23 July 2010 13:38 |
As far as getting the alcohol out and into good corn whiskey, there
are now stations here around Nashville with gas-no whiskey added. So
far on my normal routes around the city, I've found two, an
independent at exit 182 on I-40 on the west side of Interstate from
Flying J and another on the south side of Franklin at a Marathon
station. I fill up in these when I can just for the heck of it and to
support them.
Roger Black
77 Birchaven
Burns, Tn
You're lucky! I don't think I've seen a non-ethanol station in this part of the country since I've lived here! I know it is mandated part of the year, but it looks like it is a year round
practice.
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Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] ETHANOL SPELLS DOOM???? [message #92994 is a reply to message #92990] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 16:08 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Don Garlits, Nitro Fuel Dragster Pilot said it best. Gasoline is for washin
parts, Alcohol is for shot glasses, and Nitromethane is for racin.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Royale 403
On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 1:07 PM, mills <mills@bmi.net> wrote:
> If we could just eliminate the government subsidies on ethanol the
> problem would go away
> --
> Jim Mills
> Greeley, CO
> 1973 CanyonLands 260 TZE-063V100731(under renovation)
> 1973 Glacier 230 TZE-033V101993
>
>
> On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 14:38 -0500, Roger Black wrote:
>
> > As far as getting the alcohol out and into good corn whiskey, there
> > are now stations here around Nashville with gas-no whiskey added. So
> > far on my normal routes around the city, I've found two, an
> > independent at exit 182 on I-40 on the west side of Interstate from
> > Flying J and another on the south side of Franklin at a Marathon
> > station. I fill up in these when I can just for the heck of it and to
> > support them.
> >
> > Roger Black
> > 77 Birchaven
> > Burns, Tn
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] ETHANOL SPELLS DOOM???? [message #93005 is a reply to message #92985] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 17:54 |
Richard MacDonald
Messages: 47
Registered: July 2010
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Thanks for that Ken, another plus.
On 7/23/2010 3:28 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
> Richard,
>
> In general, no, fuel injection is not subject to vapor lock. With no fuel
> bowl, there can be no vapor lock (or "burping" as some call it) there. That
> leaves in the fuel lines. As you know, using a pusher pump back by the
> tanks was in the past an almost sure cure for vapor lock problems, even with
> those pumps putting out only 5-7 psi, because, like a radiator, the boiling
> point temperature was increased. Ethanol and the other changes to modern
> gasoline may have rendered that solution less effective, from the troubles
> some folks are reporting.
>
> With EFI, higher pressure pumps, in the 30+ psi range, make it even harder
> for fuel to vaporize downstream from them. BUT, they can be difficult to
> prime on the suction side, so they can themselves (rarely) be prone to
> "vapor lock". That's one reason most fuel injected vehicles have in-tank
> fuel pumps. And that's where we're headed in the GMC: Bill Bramlett worked
> out most of the kinks a couple of years ago and now Emery Stora's polishing
> it up and preparing to tell us all how to do it. Come to Du Quoin and get
> the "straight skinny". :-)
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Richard MacDonald<76edgemonte@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>> Ken, Are the EFI/TBI Engines affected like the Carbs? By that I mean
>> Vapor lock etc., I do understand what it does to seals and the lower BTU's
>> ...
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] ETHANOL SPELLS DOOM???? [message #93027 is a reply to message #93005] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 20:51 |
Dr. Detroit
Messages: 158
Registered: April 2010
Location: Novi, MI.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Once all of the problematic bits that can melt away are out of the system, running on Corn is not all that bad.
I've actually done two conversions to run E85. One was a 2 Cycle Outboard (EFI) that made close to 300 HP and the other was a Twin Turbo Big Block Chevy (carb) in a boat. That one made in excess of 850 HP. Nice thing was that the Octane rating was around 100 so it was like cheap 100 LL AV Gas without the lead.
In those conversions I ended up richening the fuel delivery by about 27-29% over standard gas to compensate for the lower BTU's that E85 has.
One of these days I'll sit down and cypher the percentage I need to richen the old GMC carb to compensate for the new fuels with 10-15% Ethanol.
To prevent vapor lock (hopefully) I bought Jim Bounds Insulated Fuel Hose. I figured that a guy from Florida would have dealt with vapor lock once or twice and that his idea should work.
I also have a low pressure pump back by the tanks too.
1973 GMC 23'
All Birch and Maple Interior Cabinetry. TZE033V100221
"The Honeycomb Hideout"
[Updated on: Fri, 23 July 2010 20:57] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: ETHANOL SPELLS DOOM???? [message #93029 is a reply to message #92961] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 22:05 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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I just got back from a 3 week trip from northern Nevada to the northern Calif. coast then up the Oregon coast and across to Portland and south on the 5 freeway. I had no problems with fuel till I was 20 miles from the California border headed south. The temperature rose to around 100 and the dreaded vapor lock started. I stopped in Weed California to add cooler gas to a 3/4 full tank and filled it to the neck. If I didn't have an electric pump I could switch on I would have been on the side of the road. The cooler gas allowed me too get high into the mountain to a campground for the night then on home to Minden Nev. the next day (today).
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: ETHANOL SPELLS DOOM???? [message #93031 is a reply to message #93029] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 22:28 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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The cooler gas allowed me too get high into the mountain to a campground for the night then on home to Minden Nev. the next day (today).
__________________________________________________________
Do you think, if we added a cooler, like the tranny oil cooler to cool the fuel coming out of the tank, then traveling on down the line, that this might help stop the boiling problem???? Of course sheilds will help also but this is a thought.
LarC ( I'll get off my soap box now )
Gatsbys' CRUISER  08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
_
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has had most fuel systems replaced or checked clean, what next??? )