Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Re: [GMCnet] Tires on Sale
| Re: [GMCnet] Tires on Sale [message #91922] |
Wed, 14 July 2010 08:13  |
Gary Casey
Messages: 448
Registered: September 2009
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It would be very interesting to me if I could get information on which to do
some statistical calculations:
1. Date codes of tires as purchased
2. Date codes of tires that are on a coach
3. Date codes of tires that had blow-outs or tread separations
If I could get as many data points as possible I could get an idea as to the
risk of using old tires. I don't doubt that there is an age-related failure
rate, but how wide is the distribution curve? Yes, many failed tires have early
date codes, but I suspect there are a lot of tires running successfully that
also have early date codes. And how old is the average tire as purchased? It
all might be interesting.
An observation: Aircraft tires have not, AFAIK, been subject to any kind of age
limitation and many are quite old. They typically sit for extended times and
then are subject to very high loadings and speeds. I've never heard of a
problem with separations of the belts. But I suspect they are never run hot for
any length of time.
Gary Casey
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires on Sale [message #91927 is a reply to message #91922] |
Wed, 14 July 2010 09:08  |
jayrabe
Messages: 509
Registered: June 2009
Location: Portland, OR
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Here's my data point for you:
Coach purchased 12/09
6 Michelin LTX/MS date codes 4702 (7+ yrs old when I purchased the coach)
These tires were purchased by second previous owner. I don't have exact dates, but from records I do have,
the tires were purchased sometime before Jly-2005
SWAG is that second previous owner put about 1000 mi on the tires
PO put about 2800 miles on the tires during his ownership.
I've put another 1500 miles on them. No blowouts.
Tread still looks great, some minor checking on sidewalls that my Les Schwab guy said was no problem.
I do plan to replace them soon, as they're now over 8 yrs old.
J
76 PB
Portland, OR
> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 06:13:25 -0700
> From: casey.gary@yahoo.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Tires on Sale
>
> It would be very interesting to me if I could get information on which to do
> some statistical calculations:
>
> 1. Date codes of tires as purchased
> 2. Date codes of tires that are on a coach
> 3. Date codes of tires that had blow-outs or tread separations
>
> If I could get as many data points as possible I could get an idea as to the
> risk of using old tires. I don't doubt that there is an age-related failure
> rate, but how wide is the distribution curve? Yes, many failed tires have early
> date codes, but I suspect there are a lot of tires running successfully that
> also have early date codes. And how old is the average tire as purchased? It
> all might be interesting.
>
> An observation: Aircraft tires have not, AFAIK, been subject to any kind of age
> limitation and many are quite old. They typically sit for extended times and
> then are subject to very high loadings and speeds. I've never heard of a
> problem with separations of the belts. But I suspect they are never run hot for
> any length of time.
>
> Gary Casey
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires on Sale [message #91933 is a reply to message #91922] |
Wed, 14 July 2010 10:12 |
Charles
Messages: 455
Registered: January 2004
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Gary,
I don't think the information you are looking for is going to resolve the
issue.
I had a 5 year 1 month old Michelin tire blow up in the trunk of my car. It
had never been on the ground. I have driven a coach with 12 year old "D"
rated rag wall tires on it from Corpus to Dallas with out a blowout. Back
when we were running G159 All steel belted tires I had one blow out with
less than 300 miles on it. Put that together and come up with an answer.
Charles
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Charles Wersal
Duncanville, Texas
26 foot 1975 Glenbrook
Pandora's Box
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires on Sale [message #91936 is a reply to message #91922] |
Wed, 14 July 2010 10:44 |
tmaki
Messages: 200
Registered: September 2005
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On 14 Jul 2010 at 6:13, Gary Casey wrote:
> It would be very interesting to me if I could get information on which to do
> some statistical calculations <snipped>
> If I could get as many data points as possible I could get an idea as to the
> risk of using old tires.
You may be guaranteed that all that information, and a government-sized warehouse more,
has been collected by the tire manufacturers who have been involved in recalls or some
other action mandated by NHTSA, partially in response to the TREAD Act. Having been
involved in numerous research and compliance activities involving RV tire failures, I can say
with great certainty that all the statistical information you want is safely packed away
somewhere.
Problem is, you would probably not be granted access to it.
You could have a fun exercise stretching out the brain cells and punching calculator keys, but
I'm not sure you'd be any closer to reliable risk number when you're finished. You'd have
collected a bunch of anecdotal information that leaves a great part of the story untold. It
would be like telling the complete story of "Gone With The Wind" by looking at a single frame
from the movie. There are many more variables to consider WRT tire failures than just age.
Of course, you know that.
For an interesting read, 49 CFR 570 through 49 CFR 579 will give a little background about
the kind of information the regulatory agencies require and why.
Here's a link to a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking that is a little smaller bite to swallow:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/tread/NPRM/Index.html#sec3
Toby Maki
'73 Glacier 230
Riverside, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires on Sale [message #91940 is a reply to message #91922] |
Wed, 14 July 2010 11:00 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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On Jul 14, 2010, at 7:13 AM, Gary Casey wrote:
> It would be very interesting to me if I could get information on which to do
> some statistical calculations:
>
> 1. Date codes of tires as purchased
> 2. Date codes of tires that are on a coach
> 3. Date codes of tires that had blow-outs or tread separations
>
> If I could get as many data points as possible I could get an idea as to the
> risk of using old tires. I don't doubt that there is an age-related failure
> rate, but how wide is the distribution curve? Yes, many failed tires have early
> date codes, but I suspect there are a lot of tires running successfully that
> also have early date codes. And how old is the average tire as purchased? It
> all might be interesting.
>
If you have nothing better to do with your time, go ahead.
However, even if there was only a 1 in 100 chance of having a blowout you could be that 1.
There is probably a low probability of having an accident but do you carry insurance?
> An observation: Aircraft tires have not, AFAIK, been subject to any kind of age
> limitation and many are quite old. They typically sit for extended times and
> then are subject to very high loadings and speeds. I've never heard of a
> problem with separations of the belts. But I suspect they are never run hot for
> any length of time.
There are a lot of aircraft tire blowouts and separations. They just don't publicize them as they don't want to scare their passengers. If you have ever flown there is a good chance that at least one of the tires on your plane has blown when landing but you don't realize it as there are other tires on the strut that takes the load. They get around this by using a lot of tires on an aircraft. For example an Airbus they have between 12 and 22 tires on their typical pasenger fleet. They change tires about every 20 to 30 landings.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires on Sale [message #91948 is a reply to message #91940] |
Wed, 14 July 2010 11:23 |
gmcrv1
Messages: 839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Memphis
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Flying into Newark, NJ from Chicago once we circled the field a couple of
times and then landed. When we stopped at the end of the runway, a toad
came out and hooked to us and towed us into the gate. Found out that the
cockpit did not get three green. Trouble was the nose gear never indicated
a green light confirming that it locked. They stuck a pin in the gear
before they towed us in and all was well...Wish they would bring back the
cockpit cams like the old MD DC-10's.
Tom Eckert N2VWN
73 Glacier
Oakland, TN
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com> wrote:
>
> On Jul 14, 2010, at 7:13 AM, Gary Casey wrote:
>
> > It would be very interesting to me if I could get information on which to
> do
> > some statistical calculations:
> >
> > 1. Date codes of tires as purchased
> > 2. Date codes of tires that are on a coach
> > 3. Date codes of tires that had blow-outs or tread separations
> >
> > If I could get as many data points as possible I could get an idea as to
> the
> > risk of using old tires. I don't doubt that there is an age-related
> failure
> > rate, but how wide is the distribution curve? Yes, many failed tires
> have early
> > date codes, but I suspect there are a lot of tires running successfully
> that
> > also have early date codes. And how old is the average tire as
> purchased? It
> > all might be interesting.
> >
> If you have nothing better to do with your time, go ahead.
> However, even if there was only a 1 in 100 chance of having a blowout you
> could be that 1.
>
> There is probably a low probability of having an accident but do you carry
> insurance?
>
> > An observation: Aircraft tires have not, AFAIK, been subject to any kind
> of age
> > limitation and many are quite old. They typically sit for extended times
> and
> > then are subject to very high loadings and speeds. I've never heard of a
> > problem with separations of the belts. But I suspect they are never run
> hot for
> > any length of time.
>
>
> There are a lot of aircraft tire blowouts and separations. They just don't
> publicize them as they don't want to scare their passengers. If you have
> ever flown there is a good chance that at least one of the tires on your
> plane has blown when landing but you don't realize it as there are other
> tires on the strut that takes the load. They get around this by using a lot
> of tires on an aircraft. For example an Airbus they have between 12 and 22
> tires on their typical pasenger fleet. They change tires about every 20 to
> 30 landings.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires on Sale [message #91952 is a reply to message #91940] |
Wed, 14 July 2010 12:09 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Call me superstitious, but I've NEVER bought a General tire. Why? 'Cause
when I was flying F-101B's back in the mid-60's, we were required to change
General tires after 19 landings. All others went MUCH longer, even with our
150 kt+ touchdown speeds. But a blowout at that speed, with only two main
gear to begin with, is NOT fun. I just never got over the bias that gave
me.
Ken H.
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com> wrote:
> There are a lot of aircraft tire blowouts and separations...
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires on Sale [message #91958 is a reply to message #91952] |
Wed, 14 July 2010 13:23 |
gmcrv1
Messages: 839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Memphis
Karma: -1
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I guess the only thing that would scare me more then a blowout on the F-101B
is the dreaded one engine out on a B-52! That would leave you with only 7
engines and a lose of about 17k pounds of thrust...
Tom E.
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> Call me superstitious, but I've NEVER bought a General tire. Why? 'Cause
> when I was flying F-101B's back in the mid-60's, we were required to change
> General tires after 19 landings. All others went MUCH longer, even with
> our
> 150 kt+ touchdown speeds. But a blowout at that speed, with only two main
> gear to begin with, is NOT fun. I just never got over the bias that gave
> me.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > There are a lot of aircraft tire blowouts and separations...
> >
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires on Sale [message #91959 is a reply to message #91958] |
Wed, 14 July 2010 13:40 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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#7 and #8 on fire is a bit worrisome, though.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ Mac Macdonald ~
~ Oklahoma City ~
~~ "Money Pit" ~~
~ '76 ex - P.B. ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:23:17 -0500
From: gmcrv1@gmail.com
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Tires on Sale
I guess the only thing that would scare me more then a blowout on the F-101B
is the dreaded one engine out on a B-52! That would leave you with only 7
engines and a lose of about 17k pounds of thrust...
Tom E.
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
Call me superstitious, but I've NEVER bought a General tire. Why? 'Cause
when I was flying F-101B's back in the mid-60's, we were required to change
General tires after 19 landings. All others went MUCH longer, even with
our 150 kt+ touchdown speeds. But a blowout at that speed, with only two
main gear to begin with, is NOT fun. I just never got over the bias that
gave me.
Ken H.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires on Sale [message #91961 is a reply to message #91959] |
Wed, 14 July 2010 14:38 |
gmcrv1
Messages: 839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Memphis
Karma: -1
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Never been there, never done that and don't want the t-shirt...
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 1:40 PM, D C *Mac* Macdonald <k2gkk@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> #7 and #8 on fire is a bit worrisome, though.
>
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~ Mac Macdonald ~
> ~ Oklahoma City ~
> ~~ "Money Pit" ~~
> ~ '76 ex - P.B. ~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:23:17 -0500
> From: gmcrv1@gmail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Tires on Sale
>
> I guess the only thing that would scare me more then a blowout on the
> F-101B
> is the dreaded one engine out on a B-52! That would leave you with only 7
> engines and a lose of about 17k pounds of thrust...
>
> Tom E.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net
> >wrote:
>
> Call me superstitious, but I've NEVER bought a General tire. Why? 'Cause
> when I was flying F-101B's back in the mid-60's, we were required to change
> General tires after 19 landings. All others went MUCH longer, even with
> our 150 kt+ touchdown speeds. But a blowout at that speed, with only two
> main gear to begin with, is NOT fun. I just never got over the bias that
> gave me.
>
> Ken H.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires on Sale [message #91967 is a reply to message #91961] |
Wed, 14 July 2010 14:57 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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Broken fuel line(s) in #4 engine pod. While at altitude
and normal speed, the leaked fuel blew out the nacelle.
On approach to 35N at Carswell AFB (Ft Worth, TX)
the lowered airspeed allowed the fuel to puddle in the
bottom of the nacelle and it caught fire from engine
exhaust. Pilots cut off the fuel, fire went out, and we
landed on schedule.
Needless to say, all aboard breathed large sighs of relief.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ Mac Macdonald ~
~ Oklahoma City ~
~ USAF, Retired ~
~~ "Money Pit" ~~
~ '76 ex - P.B. ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:38:28 -0500
From: gmcrv1@gmail.com
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Tires on Sale
Never been there, never done that and don't want the t-shirt...
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 1:40 PM, D C *Mac* Macdonald <k2gkk@hotmail.com>wrote:
#7 and #8 on fire is a bit worrisome, though.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ Mac Macdonald ~
~ Oklahoma City ~
~~ "Money Pit" ~~
~ '76 ex - P.B. ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:23:17 -0500
From: gmcrv1@gmail.com
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Tires on Sale
I guess the only thing that would scare me more then a blowout
on the F-101B is the dreaded one engine out on a B-52! That
would leave you with only 7 engines and a lose of about 17k
pounds of thrust...
Tom E.
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