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| Re: New project for Chuck [message #91344 is a reply to message #91312] |
Tue, 06 July 2010 23:16   |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Some our first hybrid prototypes used wheel motors but they have some inherent problems for vehicles with suspensions (unlike locomotives or consruction equipment.) They have very high unsprung mass and operate in a very unfriendly environment. Also because of the confined realestate, they need to be gear driven to be have enough power output throughout the entire operating speed, which caused significant noise problems. They are still prohibitively expensive to mount in each wheel. Given all that, the technology is improving daily and we may see some of that within 5 or so years.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
[Updated on: Tue, 06 July 2010 23:28] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] New project fo Chuck [message #91345 is a reply to message #91340] |
Tue, 06 July 2010 23:24 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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""I'm not an engineer, but I've always wondered why someone hasn't produced a
diesel-electric powertrain for RVs or semis. Diesel-electrics have
successfully been used for decades on locomotives.
""
I think you will see that very soon. For locomotives which operated in a very narrow duty cycle, they were able to right size the equipment enough to overcome the mechanical to electric back to mechanical efficiency losses. Modern electronics together with regeneration, start stop technology, constant engine speeds at wide open throttle, more efficient electric motors are starting to overcome the losses encountered in the energy conversions. Most systems are currently parallel types rather than series such as locomotives. The Volt is a series type and there will be diesel variations.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
[Updated on: Tue, 06 July 2010 23:25] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] New project fo Chuck [message #91352 is a reply to message #91345] |
Wed, 07 July 2010 00:52 |
jw mills
Messages: 199
Registered: September 2006
Karma: -30
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The latest locomotives use an AC alternator then convert the power to
DC. The DC is turned to phase shifted three phase AC with Phase module
stacks for each traction motor.
It would be a very small matter to change the 9 step (idle and 1 - 8)
throttle to a continuously variable speed control (it is already done on
the regenerative braking), because the whole system is controled by a
network of computers.
The problem as I see it is the unsprung weight.
--
Jim Mills
Greeley, CO
1973 CanyonLands 260 TZE-063V100731(under renovation)
1973 Glacier 230 TZE-033V101993
On Tue, 2010-07-06 at 23:24 -0500, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
>
> ""I'm not an engineer, but I've always wondered why someone hasn't produced a
> diesel-electric powertrain for RVs or semis. Diesel-electrics have
> successfully been used for decades on locomotives.
> ""
> I think you will see that very soon. For locomotives which operated in a very narrow duty cycle, they were able to right size the equipment enough to overcome the mechanical to electric back to mechanical efficiency losses. Modern electronics together with regeneration, start stop technology, constant engine speeds at wide open throttle, more efficient electric motors are starting to overcome the losses encountered in the energy conversions. Most sytems are currently parallel types rather than series such as locomotives. The Volt is a series type and there will be diesel variations.
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| Re: [GMCnet] New project fo Chuck [message #91367 is a reply to message #91340] |
Wed, 07 July 2010 06:17 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Bryan Hayes wrote on Tue, 06 July 2010 23:22 |
I'm not an engineer, but I've always wondered why someone hasn't produced a diesel-electric powertrain for RVs or semis. Diesel-electrics have successfully been used for decades on locomotives.
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Electric drives will always be heavy. It has to do with quantities of iron and copper required. Weight is not a serious negative issue to a rail engine. It can be tolerated in a marine drive - if it has a payback like running the unloading gear. Most everything that is on tires is very weight sensitive, either for cost of operation or total payload.
With inverter drives and high frequency internal transmission, some weight can be reduced, and that is the center of the discussion about a new military vehicle that is hybrid-diesel electric drive. Again, a big part of what they are looking at it the alternative uses for the electric power when the vehicle is not underway. Sorry, I've lost the link.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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