Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Vapor lock (again)
| [GMCnet] Vapor lock (again) [message #88292] |
Sat, 12 June 2010 19:55  |
cfield@ix.netcom.com
Messages: 22
Registered: February 2004
Location: Bainbridge Is. WA
Karma: 0
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>>
>>Well the problem is not the fuel pump, an electric helps, but it is the fuel, and "Al Gore Corn" in the fuel. Anytime you are above 90 degrees for a long period of time, you run the risk of vapor lock with the new fuels that we have to use. You have to keep the fuel temps down. If it is 90 plus degrees and you are above 5,000 feet, you are at risk. If it is over 100 degrees the road surface will heat the tanks and you are at risk. We in the northwest usually don't have the problem, but I have had vapor lock in Wyoming, Colorado, southern California and Arizona. I now have in-tank electric fuel pumps, have moved the fuel line outside of the frame for more air and gone to a steel line to reduce heat build on the line. This summer I am going to try a reflective paint on the tanks. My other solution is to not travel in the heat, but since I plan to make Western States in October, I will be going early in the AM when the road surface is cool.
>>
>>Chuck Field
>>77 Royale
>>Bainbridge Is., WA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Vapor lock (again) [message #88294 is a reply to message #88292] |
Sat, 12 June 2010 20:06  |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
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Chuck,
sooner or later those that are not doing anything abot this fuel issue
will be having problems.
Jim Anstett of CO has put on a insulation blanket on the bottom side
of his tanks. This solved his problem.
We had people bring that matrial here and wanted us to install it, but
we did not feel it would stay on as both sides are like cotton and
wind can roll the material off. I'm sure JimA must have utilized some
type of material over it to prevent that from happening.
On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 5:55 PM, <cfield@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>
>>>Well the problem is not the fuel pump, an electric helps, but it is the fuel, and "Al Gore Corn" in the fuel. Â Anytime you are above 90 degrees for a long period of time, you run the risk of vapor lock with the new fuels that we have to use. Â You have to keep the fuel temps down. Â If it is 90 plus degrees and you are above 5,000 feet, you are at risk. Â If it is over 100 degrees the road surface will heat the tanks and you are at risk. Â We in the northwest usually don't have the problem, but I have had vapor lock in Wyoming, Colorado, southern California and Arizona. I now have in-tank electric fuel pumps, have moved the fuel line outside of the frame for more air and gone to a steel line to reduce heat build on the line. Â This summer I am going to try a reflective paint on the tanks. My other solution is to not travel in the heat, but since I plan to make Western States in October, I will be going early in the AM when the road surface is cool.
>>>
>>>Chuck Field
>>>77 Royale
>>>Bainbridge Is., WA
>
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Vapor lock (again) [message #88312 is a reply to message #88294] |
Sat, 12 June 2010 22:32 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| jimk wrote on Sat, 12 June 2010 20:06 |
Chuck,
sooner or later those that are not doing anything abot this fuel issue
will be having problems.
Jim Anstett of CO has put on a insulation blanket on the bottom side
of his tanks. This solved his problem.
We had people bring that matrial here and wanted us to install it, but
we did not feel it would stay on as both sides are like cotton and
wind can roll the material off. I'm sure JimA must have utilized some
type of material over it to prevent that from happening.
On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 5:55 PM, <cfield@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>
>>>Well the problem is not the fuel pump, an electric helps, but it is the fuel, and "Al Gore Corn" in the fuel. Â Anytime you are above 90 degrees for a long period of time, you run the risk of vapor lock with the new fuels that we have to use. Â You have to keep the fuel temps down. Â If it is 90 plus degrees and you are above 5,000 feet, you are at risk. Â If it is over 100 degrees the road surface will heat the tanks and you are at risk. Â We in the northwest usually don't have the problem, but I have had vapor lock in Wyoming, Colorado, southern California and Arizona. I now have in-tank electric fuel pumps, have moved the fuel line outside of the frame for more air and gone to a steel line to reduce heat build on the line. Â This summer I am going to try a reflective paint on the tanks. My other solution is to not travel in the heat, but since I plan to make Western States in October, I will be going early in the AM when the road surface is cool.
>>>
>>>Chuck Field
>>>77 Royale
>>>Bainbridge Is., WA
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Try holding it up with chicken wire.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Vapor lock (again) [message #88314 is a reply to message #88292] |
Sat, 12 June 2010 22:40 |
Charles
Messages: 455
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Chuck,
It sounds like your major fuel problem might be coming from your primary
tank.
It is not a difficult job to drop the tanks and check the pick up & sending
units.
Locating the electric fuel pump should be relatively simple. Most are
installed
just forward of the tank selector valve. If you have some one turn the key
and
pump on while you are just forward of the drivers side mid wheel you should
hear and see the pump. As has been stated by others you really need to find
the fuel problem before going to any fuel injection system. When you drop
the
tanks look for fuel line deterioration. You may have bad fuel lines and
sucking
air when trying to get fuel from primary tank.
Charles
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Charles Wersal
Duncanville, Texas
26 foot 1975 Glenbrook
Pandora's Box
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| Re: [GMCnet] Vapor lock (again) [message #88330 is a reply to message #88292] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 03:07 |
chucklexie
Messages: 44
Registered: June 2010
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Well, progress is being made thanks to you guys responding and educating. Boy, this is a whole new world to conquer. Not conquer, just learning to survive is going to be a long haul for me it seems.
Thanks again.
Regards,
Chuck Ellis
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Vapor lock (again)
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 22:32:06 -0500
jimk wrote on Sat, 12 June 2010 20:06
> Chuck,
> sooner or later those that are not doing anything abot this fuel issue
> will be having problems.
> Jim Anstett of CO has put on a insulation blanket on the bottom side
> of his tanks. This solved his problem.
> We had people bring that matrial here and wanted us to install it, but
> we did not feel it would stay on as both sides are like cotton and
> wind can roll the material off. I'm sure JimA must have utilized some
> type of material over it to prevent that from happening.
>
> On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 5:55 PM, <cfield@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>>
> >>>Well the problem is not the fuel pump, an electric helps, but it is the fuel, and "Al Gore Corn" in the fuel. Â Anytime you are above 90 degrees for a long period of time, you run the risk of vapor lock with the new fuels that we have to use. Â You have to keep the fuel temps down. Â If it is 90 plus degrees and you are above 5,000 feet, you are at risk. Â If it is over 100 degrees the road surface will heat the tanks and you are at risk. Â We in the northwest usually don't have the problem, but I have had vapor lock in Wyoming, Colorado, southern California and Arizona. I now have in-tank electric fuel pumps, have moved the fuel line outside of the frame for more air and gone to a steel line to reduce heat build on the line. Â This summer I am going to try a reflective paint on the tanks. My other solution is to not travel in the heat, but since I plan to make Western States in October, I will be going early in the AM when the road surface is cool.
> >>>
> >>>Chuck Field
> >>>77 Royale
> >>>Bainbridge Is., WA
>
>
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
Try holding it up with chicken wire.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Vapor lock (again) [message #88361 is a reply to message #88294] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 10:11 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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We had people bring that matrial here and wanted us to install it, but we did not feel it would stay on as both sides are like cotton and wind can roll the material off.
________________________________________________________
Jim
Could putting chicken wire over the material hold it in place just as easily??
The attempt is to keep the heat out and the material does not care how it is held there.
Would painting the tanks white help???
LarC ( I am one of the " never had the problem yet " guys but I know the cards are in play. )
Gatsbys' CRUISER  08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
_
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| Re: [GMCnet] Vapor lock (again) [message #88365 is a reply to message #88363] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 10:40 |
Ron
Messages: 250
Registered: February 2004
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Chuck..
Even better might be to direct cool air to the tanks..
I live at elevation, about 9200 feet.My vapor lock issues were always a hand full. But the electric pump basically solved my issues..
Ron
now a P.O.
Conifer, CO
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| Re: [GMCnet] Vapor lock (again) [message #88376 is a reply to message #88361] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 11:50 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Chicken wire grid is fine, but when it gets coated with tran fluid and
engine oil you'll have a problem.
Once we can come up with something more substantial, it will be great.
There is a person in Southern CA that knows of a coating that rejects
heat very well.
I'll need to find his file an find out.
On our air filter housing business, we use sheet metal to cover the
fiberglass insulation so it does not blow downstream with the air.
On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 8:11 AM, Larry <slawrence111@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> We had people bring that matrial here and wanted us to install it, but we did not feel it would stay on as both sides are like cotton and wind can roll the material off.
> ________________________________________________________
>
> Jim
> Could putting chicken wire over the material hold it in place just as easily??
>
> The attempt is to keep the heat out and the material does not care how it is held there.
>
> Would painting the tanks white help???
>
> LarC ( I am one of the " never had the problem yet " guys but I know the cards are in play. )
>
>
> --
> Gatsbys' CRUISER :d
> 74 GLACIER X, 260
> 455/APC/4 bagg'r(ver3)
> Remflex Manifold gaskets
> _______________________________________________
> Purchased 08-18-04
>
> _
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Vapor lock (again) [message #88378 is a reply to message #88376] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 12:08 |
Charles
Messages: 455
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Below is an old post by Jim Ansette out of Loveland CO.
Somewhere in this computer is a paint coating someone
swore reduced temperatures drastically. If I find it I will
post it.
Charles
BOILING FUEL
Boiling fuel and vapor lock is more of a problem in the GMC than
about any other brand of motorhome. There are six heat producing
elements located in front of our gas tanks: engine, transmission,
final drive, exhaust pipes, muffler and air conditioning condenser.
The GMC gas tanks are very low to the ground and their design exposes
over 20 square feet of surface. Since they are only about 6 inches
deep, a large surface area of fuel is exposed to the heat from in
front of the tanks and from the surface of the road, which can reach
over 140 degrees in the summer.
This is usually not a problem in other motorhomes because their tanks
are deeper, higher off the ground and have less surface area exposed
to the pavement.
Boiling in the tanks generally occurs when the outside temperature is
above 90 degrees F. and higher, especially when driving on black
asphalt roads. The problem gets worse at higher elevations. First
you notice a smell of raw gas, then the engine seems as if it is
running out of gas. If you open the gas cap be sure that you do so
carefully as it can blow out hot raw gasoline. If you loosen the cap
part way it can release vapors for several minutes. It can take an
hour or so for the fuel in the tank to cool down enough so you can
restart the engine.
To prevent this problem the heat much be kept off the fuel tanks.
The bottom of the tanks can be covered with a ceramic fiber paper.
This can be ordered from McMaster Carr Co, Chicago, IL 630-833-0300.
Use the 1/4" thick paper part number 93285K66 which comes as a 2 foot
x 25 foot roll. The cost is a bit over $200 plus shipping.
Installation consists of cleaning the bottom of the tanks with steel
wool and lacquer thinner. Cut the paper to fit and use contact
cement to attach it to the tanks.
Prior to doing this I had a lot of boiling gas problems. Afterwards
I have driven over 3000 miles at temperatures up to 98 deg F. and
even pulled a small cabin boat at 9400 feet elevation and no longer
have a boiling problem. Jim Anstett
Loveland, CO
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Charles Wersal
Duncanville, Texas
26 foot 1975 Glenbrook
Pandora's Box
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| Re: [GMCnet] Vapor lock (again) [message #88408 is a reply to message #88376] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 15:32 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
Based on this article and other similar ones, I don't think I'd bother
to check on the insulating paint:
<http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=benefits-of-insulating-paint>
Personally, for protection from roadway radiation, I like the aluminum
diamond plate some recently mentioned they've installed. But I
wouldn't turn it up ahead of the tanks because I'd want as much air
flow around them as possible. I think.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Jim Kanomata > There is a person in
Southern CA that knows of a coating that rejects
> heat very well.
> I'll need to find his file an find out.
> On our air filter housing business, we use sheet metal to cover the
> fiberglass insulation so it does not blow downstream with the air.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Vapor lock (again) [message #88418 is a reply to message #88408] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 16:30 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Sounds like there are no worthwhile paint.
I know they would paint the B52 to cut down the effect of a bomb.
I'm sure your familiar with that.
Ken, what do you utilize to keep the tank temp lower?
On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Jim,
>
> Based on this article and other similar ones, I don't think I'd bother
> to check on the insulating paint:
>
> <http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=benefits-of-insulating-paint>
>
> Personally, for protection from roadway radiation, I like the aluminum
> diamond plate some recently mentioned they've installed. Â But I
> wouldn't turn it up ahead of the tanks because I'd want as much air
> flow around them as possible. Â I think.
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Jim Kanomata > There is a person in
> Southern CA that knows of a coating that rejects
>> heat very well.
>> I'll need to find his file an find out.
>> On our air filter housing business, we use sheet metal to cover the
>> fiberglass insulation so it does not blow downstream with the air.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Vapor lock (again) [message #88421 is a reply to message #88418] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 16:39 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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The special paints on aircraft for radiation protection/absorption are
a whole different matter -- basically a gaussian additive, as far as I
know, for a different part of the spectrum.
I don't do anything to protect from heat except run those two electric
pumps; I've never had a verifiable VL problem.
Ken H.
On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ken,
> Sounds like there are no worthwhile paint.
> I know they would paint the B52 to cut down the effect of a bomb.
> I'm sure your familiar with that.
> Ken, what do you utilize to keep the tank temp lower?
>
> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> Jim,
>>
>> Based on this article and other similar ones, I don't think I'd bother
>> to check on the insulating paint:
>>
>> <http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=benefits-of-insulating-paint>
>>
>> Personally, for protection from roadway radiation, I like the aluminum
>> diamond plate some recently mentioned they've installed. But I
>> wouldn't turn it up ahead of the tanks because I'd want as much air
>> flow around them as possible. I think.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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