Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Re: [GMCnet] ????Vapor Lock (yes, again)
| Re: [GMCnet] ????Vapor Lock (yes, again) [message #88230] |
Sat, 12 June 2010 10:10  |
chucklexie
Messages: 44
Registered: June 2010
Karma: 0
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Charles,
was that a major task to install? I am a little paranoid on installing such as that. Would like to have it installed. I can just see me with a 12,000 anchor in the barn that won't start. Do you know anyone in Texas that could be trusted to install such an upgrade? I have 94 Suburban that no one can buy out from under me with Tune block injection system. in it. We also have two new cars and when we go on trips the 200K plus Suburban is the ride we take. Sounds like wealthy folks but not at all. Just happened to buy the wife a SMART car convertible for her 65th.. She always liked little cars and convertibles. It was her birthday and close to CHRISTmas, so there it is. Now she has two new and I have two VERY oldies.
Chuck
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Charles" <gcw13@sbcglobal.net>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ????Vapor Lock (yes, again)
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:28:47 -0500
Bob and Sandra,
Intake has been blocked off since 2002 when I put in the new engine.
EFI is really a high dollar fix. $1.275.00 last time I checked. There has
to be something cheaper. I,m trying to call John Shapre for more info
on his suggestion. Lines busy
Charles
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| Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock [message #88254 is a reply to message #88237] |
Sat, 12 June 2010 14:10  |
Charles
Messages: 455
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Chuck,
I have not done any port injection. That is what Bob Price
was recommending. I posted the most recent price of
just the kit is around $1,250.00 and you can figure
$300.00 to $500.00 for the installation if you don't do it
yourself. If you decide to go that route and install it yourself
be sure the seller will help you with any installation instruction
you need.
Charles
----- Original Message -----
From: <chucklexie@juno.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
>
> I was asking about the TPI
>
> Chuck
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "Charles" <gcw13@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Subject: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:16:10 -0500
>
> Chuck, (off the list)
>> was that a major task to install?
> Are you asking about the block off plates or the engine.
> Charles
> _______________________________________________
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Charles Wersal
Duncanville, Texas
26 foot 1975 Glenbrook
Pandora's Box
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| Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock [message #88271 is a reply to message #88232] |
Sat, 12 June 2010 17:31 |
chucklexie
Messages: 44
Registered: June 2010
Karma: 0
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Charles,
Took it out this after noon to recent acquaintance and new GMC owner this after noon. It quit on me again, but this time I kept in mind what I was doing. It seems to be that running on the Primary tank and manual fuel pump contributes when I switched to Aux and fuel pump it made it to their place and came all the way home. Not a vapor lock, it is a fuel starvation situation and a new owner that has no idea at all how/where the electric fuel pump is installed. I am now convinced that my Main tank use is definitely a contributor (big contributor) to the problem. If my understanding of how the tanks work it seems almost silly to run on Main any way as you are using equal amounts of fuel from both of them until about half. Now getting access to the last half is a question. Because my first fill up required 45.8 gallons, I am getting access to all fuel aboard.
Now, what I am really wanting to take a look at is going to a TBI injection rather than a TPI. I know the TPI is more efficient, but the TBI is more reliable is how I see it.
Chuck
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Charles" <gcw13@sbcglobal.net>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:10:35 -0500
Chuck,
I have not done any port injection. That is what Bob Price
was recommending. I posted the most recent price of
just the kit is around $1,250.00 and you can figure
$300.00 to $500.00 for the installation if you don't do it
yourself. If you decide to go that route and install it yourself
be sure the seller will help you with any installation instruction
you need.
Charles
----- Original Message -----
From: <chucklexie@juno.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
>
> I was asking about the TPI
>
> Chuck
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "Charles" <gcw13@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Subject: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:16:10 -0500
>
> Chuck, (off the list)
>> was that a major task to install?
> Are you asking about the block off plates or the engine.
> Charles
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>
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| Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock [message #88273 is a reply to message #88271] |
Sat, 12 June 2010 17:44 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Get you fuel issue resolved before installing fuel injection system.
On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 3:31 PM, chucklexie@juno.com
<chucklexie@juno.com> wrote:
> Charles,
> Took it out this after noon to recent acquaintance and new GMC owner this after noon. It quit on me again, but this time I kept in mind what I was doing. It seems to be that running on the Primary tank and manual  fuel pump contributes when I switched to Aux and fuel pump it made it to their place and came all the way home. Not a vapor lock, it is a fuel starvation situation and a new owner that has no idea at all how/where the electric fuel pump is installed. I am now convinced that my Main tank use is definitely a contributor (big contributor) to the problem. If my understanding of how the tanks work it seems almost silly to run on Main any way as you are using equal amounts of fuel from both of them until about half. Now getting access to the last half is a question. Because my first fill up required 45.8 gallons, I am getting access to all fuel aboard.
>
> Now, what I am really wanting to take a look at is going to a TBI injection rather than a TPI. I know the TPI is more efficient, but the TBI is more reliable is how I see it.
>
> Chuck
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "Charles" <gcw13@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:10:35 -0500
>
> Chuck,
> I have not done any port injection. That is what Bob Price
> was recommending. I posted the most recent price of
> just the kit is around $1,250.00 and you can figure
> $300.00 to $500.00 Â for the installation if you don't do it
> yourself. If you decide to  go that route and install it yourself
> be sure the seller will help you with any installation instruction
> you need.
> Charles
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <chucklexie@juno.com>
> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 10:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
>
>
>>
>> I was asking about the TPI
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> From: "Charles" <gcw13@sbcglobal.net>
>> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
>> Subject: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
>> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:16:10 -0500
>>
>> Chuck, (off the list)
>>> was that a major task to install?
>> Are you asking about the block off plates or the engine.
>> Charles
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock [message #88281 is a reply to message #88273] |
Sat, 12 June 2010 18:51 |
Sandra Price
Messages: 709
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I believe I have been misunderstood. I am running a TBI in my '73 Painted
Desert. It has worked excellently since it was installed by Gordon Dunlap
in January 2005--first change I made after I bought the coach.
In the process of installing the TBI, you need to pull the intake manifold,
block the heat passage that crosses from head to head, and cut the center
holes where the carbeurator normally mounts and make it one open
chamber. If you want to install a TBI economically, go to the wrecking yard
and get a TBI off a 454 Chevy truck, about '90 - '92 model, pick up the
required parts to go along with it, and a 747 computer (common everywhere,
can be bought rebuilt) and call up Painless Wiring and buy the harness. One
other thing, you have to have a bung to weld onto the exhaust pipe to put
the O2 sensor in. If anyone would like to discuss further, give me a call
at 713 203-7833. I have installed two such units on both of my El Caminos
and I have a TPI setup on my third El Camino, a '67. I can tell you all the
pros and cons.
I would not recommend a TPI for the GMC because it takes special equipment
to diagnose any TPI problem.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Bob Price
On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
> Get you fuel issue resolved before installing fuel injection system.
>
> On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 3:31 PM, chucklexie@juno.com
> <chucklexie@juno.com> wrote:
> > Charles,
> > Took it out this after noon to recent acquaintance and new GMC owner this
> after noon. It quit on me again, but this time I kept in mind what I was
> doing. It seems to be that running on the Primary tank and manual fuel pump
> contributes when I switched to Aux and fuel pump it made it to their place
> and came all the way home. Not a vapor lock, it is a fuel starvation
> situation and a new owner that has no idea at all how/where the electric
> fuel pump is installed. I am now convinced that my Main tank use is
> definitely a contributor (big contributor) to the problem. If my
> understanding of how the tanks work it seems almost silly to run on Main any
> way as you are using equal amounts of fuel from both of them until about
> half. Now getting access to the last half is a question. Because my first
> fill up required 45.8 gallons, I am getting access to all fuel aboard.
> >
> > Now, what I am really wanting to take a look at is going to a TBI
> injection rather than a TPI. I know the TPI is more efficient, but the TBI
> is more reliable is how I see it.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > ---------- Original Message ----------
> > From: "Charles" <gcw13@sbcglobal.net>
> > To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
> > Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:10:35 -0500
> >
> > Chuck,
> > I have not done any port injection. That is what Bob Price
> > was recommending. I posted the most recent price of
> > just the kit is around $1,250.00 and you can figure
> > $300.00 to $500.00 for the installation if you don't do it
> > yourself. If you decide to go that route and install it yourself
> > be sure the seller will help you with any installation instruction
> > you need.
> > Charles
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <chucklexie@juno.com>
> > To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 10:47 AM
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I was asking about the TPI
> >>
> >> Chuck
> >>
> >> ---------- Original Message ----------
> >> From: "Charles" <gcw13@sbcglobal.net>
> >> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> >> Subject: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
> >> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:16:10 -0500
> >>
> >> Chuck, (off the list)
> >>> was that a major task to install?
> >> Are you asking about the block off plates or the engine.
> >> Charles
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> List Information and Subscription Options:
> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> List Information and Subscription Options:
> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
IN GOD WE TRUST!
Sandra and Bob in the 51st Year of our State of Marriage
“Life’s a Trip” in “The Roadhouse”
’73 Painted Desert
Huntsville, TX
Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another, be sympathetic, love
as brothers, be compassionate and humble. Do not repay evil with evil or
insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so
that you may inherit a blessing. --1 Peter 3:8-9
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| Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock [message #88287 is a reply to message #88271] |
Sat, 12 June 2010 19:29 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| chucklexie wrote on Sat, 12 June 2010 17:31 |
Charles,
Took it out this after noon to recent acquaintance and new GMC owner this after noon. It quit on me again, but this time I kept in mind what I was doing. It seems to be that running on the Primary tank and manual fuel pump contributes when I switched to Aux and fuel pump it made it to their place and came all the way home. Not a vapor lock, it is a fuel starvation situation and a new owner that has no idea at all how/where the electric fuel pump is installed. I am now convinced that my Main tank use is definitely a contributor (big contributor) to the problem. If my understanding of how the tanks work it seems almost silly to run on Main any way as you are using equal amounts of fuel from both of them until about half. Now getting access to the last half is a question. Because my first fill up required 45.8 gallons, I am getting access to all fuel aboard.
Now, what I am really wanting to take a look at is going to a TBI injection rather than a TPI. I know the TPI is more efficient, but the TBI is more reliable is how I see it.
Chuck
|
You need to figure out what your fuel problem is first before compounding it with a TBI conversion. If it is not getting fuel now what makes you think it will magically get fuel by changing to TBI?
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock [message #88303 is a reply to message #88232] |
Sat, 12 June 2010 21:00 |
chucklexie
Messages: 44
Registered: June 2010
Karma: 0
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Member |
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|
Getting fuel successfully to the engine will not be a problem. The problem is all the other issues such as carb, fluctuations, elevation related problems, floats, and vacuum leaks which have bunches of areas to stick their ugly heads up causing intermittent problems.. Get rid of vacuum and you rid the unit of many potential intermittent problems that are hard to diagnose. Well that is my way of thinking also on the subject but I just as well may be full of it. .
Chuck
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:29:05 -0500
chucklexie wrote on Sat, 12 June 2010 17:31
> Charles,
> Took it out this after noon to recent acquaintance and new GMC owner this after noon. It quit on me again, but this time I kept in mind what I was doing. It seems to be that running on the Primary tank and manual fuel pump contributes when I switched to Aux and fuel pump it made it to their place and came all the way home. Not a vapor lock, it is a fuel starvation situation and a new owner that has no idea at all how/where the electric fuel pump is installed. I am now convinced that my Main tank use is definitely a contributor (big contributor) to the problem. If my understanding of how the tanks work it seems almost silly to run on Main any way as you are using equal amounts of fuel from both of them until about half. Now getting access to the last half is a question. Because my first fill up required 45.8 gallons, I am getting access to all fuel aboard.
>
> Now, what I am really wanting to take a look at is going to a TBI injection rather than a TPI. I know the TPI is more efficient, but the TBI is more reliable is how I see it.
>
> Chuck
You need to figure out what your fuel problem is first before compounding it with a TBI conversion. If it is not getting fuel now what makes you think it will magically get fuel by changing to TBI?
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock [message #88304 is a reply to message #88303] |
Sat, 12 June 2010 21:27 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I have run and installed fuel injection in the GMC's since 1990 and I
can tell you that a good carburetor will bring you home.
I personally run with 2 computer as I cannot trust the electronics
enough where we drive long distances where there are no major towns.
I'm trying to find out why the fuel pressure drops suddenly at times
and then continues back to normal pressure.
I have put on over 90,000 miles on the Port fuel injection systems,
and installed several .
I always needed help with the programing as I was not that computer savvy.
I am grateful that I have few sharp guys we retain to consult when we
run into glitches.
On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 7:00 PM, chucklexie@juno.com
<chucklexie@juno.com> wrote:
> Getting fuel successfully to the engine will not be a problem. The problem is all the other issues such as carb, fluctuations, elevation related problems, floats, and vacuum leaks which have bunches of areas to stick their ugly heads up causing intermittent problems.. Get rid of vacuum and you rid the unit of many potential intermittent problems that are hard to diagnose. Well that is my way of thinking also on the subject but I just as well may be full of it. .
>
>
> Chuck
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:29:05 -0500
>
>
>
>
> chucklexie wrote on Sat, 12 June 2010 17:31
>> Charles,
>> Took it out this after noon to recent acquaintance and new GMC owner this after noon. It quit on me again, but this time I kept in mind what I was doing. It seems to be that running on the Primary tank and manual  fuel pump contributes when I switched to Aux and fuel pump it made it to their place and came all the way home. Not a vapor lock, it is a fuel starvation situation and a new owner that has no idea at all how/where the electric fuel pump is installed. I am now convinced that my Main tank use is definitely a contributor (big contributor) to the problem. If my understanding of how the tanks work it seems almost silly to run on Main any way as you are using equal amounts of fuel from both of them until about half. Now getting access to the last half is a question. Because my first fill up required 45.8 gallons, I am getting access to all fuel aboard.
>>
>> Now, what I am really wanting to take a look at is going to a TBI injection rather than a TPI. I know the TPI is more efficient, but the TBI is more reliable is how I see it.
>>
>> Chuck
>
> You need to figure out what your fuel problem is first before compounding it with a TBI conversion. Â If it is not getting fuel now what makes you think it will magically get fuel by changing to TBI?
>
>
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock [message #88306 is a reply to message #88232] |
Sat, 12 June 2010 21:40 |
chucklexie
Messages: 44
Registered: June 2010
Karma: 0
|
Member |
|
|
I will be calling. Where is thisn Gordon Dunlap person located?
Are you also saying that a 454 intake will direct bolt on a 403? I have had very good experiences with TBI myself and lots and lots of problems over the years with Carbs. I also hate related to vacuum, as it induces so darn many hard to find problems.
Thank you for the information. I will put it on the things to do list.
Chuck
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Sandra Price <bsprice9359@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 18:51:14 -0500
I believe I have been misunderstood. I am running a TBI in my '73 Painted
Desert. It has worked excellently since it was installed by Gordon Dunlap
in January 2005--first change I made after I bought the coach.
In the process of installing the TBI, you need to pull the intake manifold,
block the heat passage that crosses from head to head, and cut the center
holes where the carbeurator normally mounts and make it one open
chamber. If you want to install a TBI economically, go to the wrecking yard
and get a TBI off a 454 Chevy truck, about '90 - '92 model, pick up the
required parts to go along with it, and a 747 computer (common everywhere,
can be bought rebuilt) and call up Painless Wiring and buy the harness. One
other thing, you have to have a bung to weld onto the exhaust pipe to put
the O2 sensor in. If anyone would like to discuss further, give me a call
at 713 203-7833. I have installed two such units on both of my El Caminos
and I have a TPI setup on my third El Camino, a '67. I can tell you all the
pros and cons.
I would not recommend a TPI for the GMC because it takes special equipment
to diagnose any TPI problem.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Bob Price
On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
> Get you fuel issue resolved before installing fuel injection system.
>
> On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 3:31 PM, chucklexie@juno.com
> <chucklexie@juno.com> wrote:
> > Charles,
> > Took it out this after noon to recent acquaintance and new GMC owner this
> after noon. It quit on me again, but this time I kept in mind what I was
> doing. It seems to be that running on the Primary tank and manual fuel pump
> contributes when I switched to Aux and fuel pump it made it to their place
> and came all the way home. Not a vapor lock, it is a fuel starvation
> situation and a new owner that has no idea at all how/where the electric
> fuel pump is installed. I am now convinced that my Main tank use is
> definitely a contributor (big contributor) to the problem. If my
> understanding of how the tanks work it seems almost silly to run on Main any
> way as you are using equal amounts of fuel from both of them until about
> half. Now getting access to the last half is a question. Because my first
> fill up required 45.8 gallons, I am getting access to all fuel aboard.
> >
> > Now, what I am really wanting to take a look at is going to a TBI
> injection rather than a TPI. I know the TPI is more efficient, but the TBI
> is more reliable is how I see it.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > ---------- Original Message ----------
> > From: "Charles" <gcw13@sbcglobal.net>
> > To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
> > Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:10:35 -0500
> >
> > Chuck,
> > I have not done any port injection. That is what Bob Price
> > was recommending. I posted the most recent price of
> > just the kit is around $1,250.00 and you can figure
> > $300.00 to $500.00 for the installation if you don't do it
> > yourself. If you decide to go that route and install it yourself
> > be sure the seller will help you with any installation instruction
> > you need.
> > Charles
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <chucklexie@juno.com>
> > To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 10:47 AM
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I was asking about the TPI
> >>
> >> Chuck
> >>
> >> ---------- Original Message ----------
> >> From: "Charles" <gcw13@sbcglobal.net>
> >> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> >> Subject: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
> >> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:16:10 -0500
> >>
> >> Chuck, (off the list)
> >>> was that a major task to install?
> >> Are you asking about the block off plates or the engine.
> >> Charles
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> List Information and Subscription Options:
> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> List Information and Subscription Options:
> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
IN GOD WE TRUST!
Sandra and Bob in the 51st Year of our State of Marriage
“Life’s a Trip” in “The Roadhouse”
’73 Painted Desert
Huntsville, TX
Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another, be sympathetic, love
as brothers, be compassionate and humble. Do not repay evil with evil or
insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so
that you may inherit a blessing. --1 Peter 3:8-9
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| Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock [message #88309 is a reply to message #88303] |
Sat, 12 June 2010 22:23 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
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| chucklexie wrote on Sat, 12 June 2010 21:00 |
Getting fuel successfully to the engine will not be a problem. The problem is all the other issues such as carb, fluctuations, elevation related problems, floats, and vacuum leaks which have bunches of areas to stick their ugly heads up causing intermittent problems.. Get rid of vacuum and you rid the unit of many potential intermittent problems that are hard to diagnose. Well that is my way of thinking also on the subject but I just as well may be full of it. .
Chuck
|
You better fix your vacuum problems along with your fuel delivery problem first.
Vacuum controls your transmission, cruise control, heater /AC, spark advance/retard, brakes, and emission canisters.
After installing a TBI system you get to take on a whole new set of adjustments using computer settings. I watched a very knowledgeable guy spend almost a week trying to find the magic combination of settings to get a coach running correctly. It did not run any better at the end of the week than it had when I saw him at the beginning of the week.
TBI works well after a lot of playing and experimenting, but you are wasting your time if you do not have the basics (fuel, vacuum, and timing) correct before you start. We have one GMCer who lost two engines after installing TBI. He is now building another engine.
Good luck.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock [message #88329 is a reply to message #88232] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 03:04 |
chucklexie
Messages: 44
Registered: June 2010
Karma: 0
|
Member |
|
|
Ken,
There are some functions there that you outline that I was not aware of. I definately have a low vacuum problem. The coach I have does have a vacuum gauge as it is a replacement front panel. What level of vacuum is needed? It does give a very low reading, actually barely off the peg and my cruise control will not engage.
You certainly have given me a LOT of food for thought and a new incentive to get what I have in working order and seem best advised to get current house in order. I think I was looking for a quick way out.
Thank you for the great feed back. Well back into the engine compartment. I hate vacuum problems. Never been good at isolating them.
Chuck
Chuck
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 22:23:53 -0500
chucklexie wrote on Sat, 12 June 2010 21:00
> Getting fuel successfully to the engine will not be a problem. The problem is all the other issues such as carb, fluctuations, elevation related problems, floats, and vacuum leaks which have bunches of areas to stick their ugly heads up causing intermittent problems.. Get rid of vacuum and you rid the unit of many potential intermittent problems that are hard to diagnose. Well that is my way of thinking also on the subject but I just as well may be full of it. .
>
>
> Chuck
You better fix your vacuum problems along with your fuel delivery problem first.
Vacuum controls your transmission, cruise control, heater /AC, spark advance/retard, brakes, and emission canisters.
After installing a TBI system you get to take on a whole new set of adjustments using computer settings. I watched a very knowledgeable guy spend almost a week trying to find the magic combination of settings to get a coach running correctly. It did not run any better at the end of the week than it had when I saw him at the beginning of the week.
TBI works well after a lot of playing and experimenting, but you are wasting your time if you do not have the basics (fuel, vacuum, and timing) correct before you start. We have one GMCer who lost two engines after installing TBI. He is now building another engine.
Good luck.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock [message #88332 is a reply to message #88232] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 03:30 |
chucklexie
Messages: 44
Registered: June 2010
Karma: 0
|
Member |
|
|
Jim,
You fellows with all the experience have won!!! Back to the drawing board, under the coach, and all over the engine. Got a bad leak of a couple of kinds, from vacuum to fuel. Settling down with the Carb to make it do its duty with properly supplied functions. I think I have a very good foundation, just need to shore up the support functions here and there. Thanks for the information and feed back. Got to get this thing rolling down the road with with pride, as I need to spend some time in cooler pastures.
Chuck Ellis
Belton, Texas (Too Hot here)
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:27:41 -0700
I have run and installed fuel injection in the GMC's since 1990 and I
can tell you that a good carburetor will bring you home.
I personally run with 2 computer as I cannot trust the electronics
enough where we drive long distances where there are no major towns.
I'm trying to find out why the fuel pressure drops suddenly at times
and then continues back to normal pressure.
I have put on over 90,000 miles on the Port fuel injection systems,
and installed several .
I always needed help with the programing as I was not that computer savvy.
I am grateful that I have few sharp guys we retain to consult when we
run into glitches.
On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 7:00 PM, chucklexie@juno.com
<chucklexie@juno.com> wrote:
> Getting fuel successfully to the engine will not be a problem. The problem is all the other issues such as carb, fluctuations, elevation related problems, floats, and vacuum leaks which have bunches of areas to stick their ugly heads up causing intermittent problems.. Get rid of vacuum and you rid the unit of many potential intermittent problems that are hard to diagnose. Well that is my way of thinking also on the subject but I just as well may be full of it. .
>
>
> Chuck
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock
> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:29:05 -0500
>
>
>
>
> chucklexie wrote on Sat, 12 June 2010 17:31
>> Charles,
>> Took it out this after noon to recent acquaintance and new GMC owner this after noon. It quit on me again, but this time I kept in mind what I was doing. It seems to be that running on the Primary tank and manual  fuel pump contributes when I switched to Aux and fuel pump it made it to their place and came all the way home. Not a vapor lock, it is a fuel starvation situation and a new owner that has no idea at all how/where the electric fuel pump is installed. I am now convinced that my Main tank use is definitely a contributor (big contributor) to the problem. If my understanding of how the tanks work it seems almost silly to run on Main any way as you are using equal amounts of fuel from both of them until about half. Now getting access to the last half is a question. Because my first fill up required 45.8 gallons, I am getting access to all fuel aboard.
>>
>> Now, what I am really wanting to take a look at is going to a TBI injection rather than a TPI. I know the TPI is more efficient, but the TBI is more reliable is how I see it.
>>
>> Chuck
>
> You need to figure out what your fuel problem is first before compounding it with a TBI conversion. Â If it is not getting fuel now what makes you think it will magically get fuel by changing to TBI?
>
>
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock [message #88333 is a reply to message #88329] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 03:39 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| chucklexie wrote on Sun, 13 June 2010 03:04 |
Ken,
There are some functions there that you outline that I was not aware of. I definately have a low vacuum problem. The coach I have does have a vacuum gauge as it is a replacement front panel. What level of vacuum is needed? It does give a very low reading, actually barely off the peg and my cruise control will not engage.
You certainly have given me a LOT of food for thought and a new incentive to get what I have in working order and seem best advised to get current house in order. I think I was looking for a quick way out.
Thank you for the great feed back. Well back into the engine compartment. I hate vacuum problems. Never been good at isolating them.
Chuck
|
Isolating a vacuum problem should not be very difficult. Just disconnect all of the vacuum hoses except for the vacuum gauge. Plug all of the vacuum port where you disconnected the hoses and read the vacuum gauge. You should have something between 15 and 20 at an idle. I believe 18 is about normal depending on idle RPM. Then connect each hose one at a ime while watching the gauge. If the gauge drops then you have a vacuum problemon that hose.
There are 6 hoses that I can think of.
1. A large diameter one going from the intake to the brake reservoir.
2. One on the right top of the engine going to a steel line that goes to the transmission.
3. One on the top rear of the intake manifold going to the cruise control and maybe the heater (I do not exactly).
4. One on the top front of the intake manifold that goes to the TVS. I think this is connected to the same intake port as the transmission.
5. I have forgotten where the evap canister gets it's vacuum because mine is not hooked up.
6. There is an air valve on the air cleaner that also runs on vacuum. I also do not have this valve on mine but I believe it is hooked to a tee that is on the top rear of the intake manifold and attached to the same intake port as the cruise control.
That is all I can think of. I'm sure others here will add any Iight have missed.
There is one other hose that goes from the front of the carb to the TVS and on to the vacuum advance. This hose does not need to be disconnected and plugged as it does not run on manifold vacuum.
HTH
Ken B.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock [message #88356 is a reply to message #88271] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 09:27 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
[quote title=chucklexie wrote on Sat, 12 June 2010 17:31]Charles,
Took it out this after noon to recent acquaintance and new GMC owner this after noon. It quit on me again, but this time I kept in mind what I was doing. It seems to be that running on the Primary tank and manual fuel pump contributes when I switched to Aux and fuel pump it made it to their place and came all the way home. Not a vapor lock, it is a fuel starvation situation and a new owner that has no idea at all how/where the electric fuel pump is installed. I am now convinced that my Main tank use is definitely a contributor (big contributor) to the problem. If my understanding of how the tanks work it seems almost silly to run on Main any way as you are using equal amounts of fuel from both of them until about half. Now getting access to the last half is a question. Because my first fill up required 45.8 gallons, I am getting access to all fuel aboard.
Now, what I am really wanting to take a look at is going to a TBI injection rather than a TPI. I know the TPI is more efficient, but the TBI is more reliable is how I see it.
Chuck
-quote]
one method of running the electric pump is to power it off the selector valve as is yours. i like to have a separate switch for the pump so i can turn it on when i want it without switching tanks. the pump most likely is mounted downstream of the valve so switching power source will not be a problem.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock [message #88393 is a reply to message #88356] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 14:22 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Beats me why Y'All continue to fool with mechanical fuel pumps and
selector switches. I run two Carter 4070 fuel pumps, one for each
tank. They're powered through a selector relay which is switched by
the OEM fuel selector valve wiring so that selecting a tank actually
only turns off one pump and turns the other on.
The IGN power through the selector relay to the pumps is enabled by
one of: 1. Starter activation. 2. Manual Prime switch depression.
3. Available engine oil pressure.
Each pump feeds into a tee through a VIton-sealed check valve from
McMaster-Carr. The output of the tee connects to the original steel
tube forward. Until I converted to EFI, that original tube connect,
as OEM, through a rubber coupling to a steel tube up the front of the
engine to the carburetor -- bypassing the eliminated antique pump.
Granted a pump can fail (a red Holley did, a Carter never has for me),
but it's easy enough, even with my single sorry ear, to hear whether
it's running. And if one fails, that only eliminates the use of the
bottom 6 gallons or so in the tank from which it feeds.
If you need a new selector valve, the cost is probably comparable to
that of the second Carter pump. As for the first one, I think
everyone should have it. While it may not eliminate all vapor lock
problems, it's the best bet on the board and the first one to try
:-)
JWID -- Very simple & reliable setup.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:27 AM, fred veenschoten <fredntoni@cox.net> wrote:
...
> one method of running the electric pump is to power it off the selector valve as is yours. i like to have a separate switch for the pump so i can turn it on when i want it without switching tanks. the pump most likely is mounted downstream of the valve so switching power source will not be a problem.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] ?Vapor Lock [message #88395 is a reply to message #88335] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 14:31 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| chucklexie wrote on Sun, 13 June 2010 03:48 |
Ken,
Thanks for that information. I certainly will print this out and use it for a road map in trouble shooting this thing. Those tubes just seem to go every where and several have been removed and blocked off, such as the control for the air intake. My coach does have a ram air setup also. Much appreciated.
Chuck
|
If I remember correctly, all of those hoses I mentioned only connect to three ports on the intake manifold (2 small ones and one bigger one for the power brakes). You could disconnect them there and block the ports as a start and work forward from there.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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