Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] REAR BRAKE TORQUE REACTION SYSTEM
| [GMCnet] REAR BRAKE TORQUE REACTION SYSTEM [message #87449] |
Sat, 05 June 2010 19:56  |
Charles Aulgur
Messages: 78
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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From: "george" <delve@rochester.rr.com>
I am interested in the new brake developments BUT
Have yet to see any vector analysis, or even scalar analysis.
Is there any?
Even with the cad drawings and verbage flooding us, there seems not
to be
any representation of what is going on back there with respect to
transfer
of forces, finite element analysis and proof of engineering.
Does it exist?
If so, where is it?
If not, why not?
I, for one would like to see someone analyze the loads/forces
involved with
proposed hardware mods as to its adequacy before I plunk down a few
[many]
GMC $$ units.
Does 'pig in a poke' apply?
George,
The production Cad drawings that Rick Flanagan developed or this
modification was stress analyzed by a very sophisticated computer
model and every piece was designed to have a large margin of safety,
Maybe Rick can send you a copy of the analysis and you can explain it
to the rest of us as I sure wouldn't know how to interrelate the
results. If any fault can be found in his design it would that it is
made a lot stronger then it should be. Go on Google and search for
"Less Bang For Your Buck" and you will fine the article I wrote for a
handout at the Auburn Rally. In there you will see a vector diagram
showing how you can calculate what percent of your braking energy
goes into slowing your GMC and what percent is totally wasted by the
swing arm suspension pushing vertically up and down on the bogie frame.
As Steve F. said "the proof of the pudding is where the rubber hits
the road". You won't believe anything people say about this mod
until you drive a GMC with the mod on it. I developed this
modification for myself and I enjoy sharing my improvements with
fellow GMCers and I don't give a "rates ass" if you don't want to
plunk you money down for this 'pig in a poke" or not.
Chuck Aulgur
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| Re: [GMCnet] REAR BRAKE TORQUE REACTION SYSTEM [message #87474 is a reply to message #87449] |
Sat, 05 June 2010 23:26  |
peter bailey
Messages: 367
Registered: March 2009
Location: Gawler, South Australia
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hi Chuck,
Glad you came back to the net make sure you keep it together and take no
notice of negativity
I wan't all the upgrades and will eventually get there but have to get past
the Government beaucracy first like currently having to pay $2800 a year for
permission to put our coach on the road (state registration for the GMC)
among other rules which are costly just to get to the edge of the road.
You guys in USA are really lucky to have access to all these improvements at
a reasonable $. We will have to take the Chinese leed and copy your designs,
better still send the drawings and we will make them and pay a royalty for
that privalege, it would end up cheaper as we would not have the dollar
difference plus the bank fee for transaction,the customs $ slug, the GST,the
shipping fees and landing charges.
What is a 'rates ass' we refer to that same description as a 'rats ass' have
we got one of your slangs wrong?
Peter Bailey
from Ozy (Aussie)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Aulgur" <cwasdc@sbcglobal.net>
To: "GMCnet" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 10:26 AM
Subject: [GMCnet] REAR BRAKE TORQUE REACTION SYSTEM
> From: "george" <delve@rochester.rr.com>
>
> I am interested in the new brake developments BUT
> Have yet to see any vector analysis, or even scalar analysis.
> Is there any?
> Even with the cad drawings and verbage flooding us, there seems not
> to be
> any representation of what is going on back there with respect to
> transfer
> of forces, finite element analysis and proof of engineering.
> Does it exist?
> If so, where is it?
> If not, why not?
> I, for one would like to see someone analyze the loads/forces
> involved with
> proposed hardware mods as to its adequacy before I plunk down a few
> [many]
> GMC $$ units.
> Does 'pig in a poke' apply?
>
> George,
> The production Cad drawings that Rick Flanagan developed or this
> modification was stress analyzed by a very sophisticated computer
> model and every piece was designed to have a large margin of safety,
> Maybe Rick can send you a copy of the analysis and you can explain it
> to the rest of us as I sure wouldn't know how to interrelate the
> results. If any fault can be found in his design it would that it is
> made a lot stronger then it should be. Go on Google and search for
> "Less Bang For Your Buck" and you will fine the article I wrote for a
> handout at the Auburn Rally. In there you will see a vector diagram
> showing how you can calculate what percent of your braking energy
> goes into slowing your GMC and what percent is totally wasted by the
> swing arm suspension pushing vertically up and down on the bogie frame.
>
> As Steve F. said "the proof of the pudding is where the rubber hits
> the road". You won't believe anything people say about this mod
> until you drive a GMC with the mod on it. I developed this
> modification for myself and I enjoy sharing my improvements with
> fellow GMCers and I don't give a "rates ass" if you don't want to
> plunk you money down for this 'pig in a poke" or not.
>
> Chuck Aulgur
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] REAR BRAKE TORQUE REACTION SYSTEM [message #87476 is a reply to message #87474] |
Sat, 05 June 2010 23:52 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Charles,
You have a hard row to hoe. People do NOT get brakes. People will spend 10's of thousands on an engine but then use the cheapest passenger car brakes possible. When you ask them why not use better brakes they just say that the stock brakes were designed by GM, so they must be good.
So they have 800 hp and Mustang 2 brakes...
I deal with this all the time, I sell racing brake kits for old Corvettes on the side and constantly have to educate every customer. The 60mph to 0 argument is my favorite, tho on your system it actually does improve, which is a rare situation.
My best advice it to just say that the system increases braking force by x% through advanced racing brake technology.
When pressed for why, discuss the problem with having a dual axle system with both leading and trailing axles...
Good luck Chuck!
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] REAR BRAKE TORQUE REACTION SYSTEM [message #87559 is a reply to message #87449] |
Sun, 06 June 2010 18:41 |
rick flanagan
Messages: 26
Registered: May 2010
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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All,
WOW, sounds like some lively discourse going on here. Jim K. told me to check it out. George, can you really perform the necessary calculations to satisfy your objections to this design? If so and as a favor to the GMC community we I’d like to see if you would perform an independent mathematical study of the design and make recommended improvement changes. We had a former automotive Engineer from Ford do some calculations, but he never completed them. We’d ask you to sign an N.D.A. and unfortunately, like Chuck and I, it’s unpaid. Here’s my e-mail address,
rflanagan@powis.com. Let’s talk.
When Jim Kanomata first asked me to design this I said NO! Why would I open myself up to litigation? Chuck finally convinced me to at least design and test one. If it didn’t work as he claimed, then they wouldn’t make any more, so I agreed. It wasn’t until we were testing the device that WOW, THAT’S AMAZING. Oh my lawyer’s not going to like this. Even so I still wouldn’t let Jim discuss selling it until I personally had tested and inspected the device over the next 9 months of hard use. I was not nice to my coach. That’s why at Auburn, I had no qualms about letting 14 people drive my coach up and down hills, on the freeway and down country roads while slamming on the brakes as many times as they so desired.
Look folks, this is a custom device in a niche market. In my job, my company spends millions of $$$ to develop mass-produced products and equipment. Even more on capital fabrication processes such as injection molding, die casting, extruding, etc… We perform flow analysis, thermal transfer and FEA on components of these products using COSMOS WORKS on a regular basis. I am not smart enough to do it on a slide rule. We end up with products that are certified for safety and use around the world. It would have been easier for me to design this device to look like it came right off the GM assembly line, but you and I couldn’t afford it. Well maybe some of you could. To that end, we have come up with what we have demonstrated and shown. The parts are designed to be manufactured in LOW VOLUME quantities and in the most cost effective/safe manner we know how, therefore it might not look like a GM product. Like with the Quadra-bag and other products we have developed over the years, the design is never finished. As more systems are installed, we hope more questions and suggestions will arise so we all benefit from a better, safer MONEY PIT.
Rick
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