Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES
| [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES [message #86829] |
Tue, 01 June 2010 12:42  |
Charles Aulgur
Messages: 78
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Any discussion about the rear brake torque reaction system presented
at the Auburn GMCWS rally and actually driving Rick's Flanagan's
coach lasted about two day on the net and people were back posting
about more interesting items. Are there any folks on the net that
drove Rick's coach,or is there anyone that know someone that drove
Rick's coach other then Steve F.? Everyone knows that Steve is a
very savvy GMC technical person and is not afraid to speak his mind.
For him to say that Rick's coach stopped better then his 2010 pickup
was about as good of an endorsement as anyone could make. We need
some of the other drivers of Rick's coach to come on the net and
state there thoughts, good or bad. I have been presenting this
modification at various GMC rallies for almost 4 years with very
little interest shown and there are only 4 GMCs in the USA that have
installed this modification. At the Auburn rally, I had numerous GMC
openers stop by and tell me what all they had done to get "great"
brakes on there coaches and how happy they were with there brakes. I
asked everyone one of them to go drive Rick's GMC and come back and
tell me if they were still happy with their brakes, Most of them did
drive or ride in Rick's coach but there was not one person that came
back and told me they were still happy with their current brakes.
The OEM drum brakes on a GMC have excellent braking capability but
there is nothing that anyone can do that I know of that will
eliminate the 50% brake loss caused by the GMC swing arm suspension.
There are ways one can eliminate the lifting of the rear of the coach
during braking but that only reduces shifting weight to the front
brakes. With the OEM GMC brakes, you cannot prevent overloading the
mid axle and front wheel tires even during moderate braking braking.
We need to get some of you engineers and highly tech savvy folks to
express some of your thoughts/concerns. Until we get some of you
folks east of the Rockies to install the system on your coaches and
let people drive them at rallies will we ever get thing moving and
possibly save some GMCs and/passengers.
Chuck Aulgur
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| Re: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES [message #86836 is a reply to message #86829] |
Tue, 01 June 2010 13:49  |
Gary Worobec
Messages: 867
Registered: May 2005
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Chuck, you have really not mentioned the real issue in this post I think. As
I understand it you have to have rear disc brakes which are about a $1600.00
upgrade for parts alone. Add that to the $2400.00 cost of your system and
you are at a tidy $4000.00. No doubt the system makes lots of sense and adds
an element of safety. I guess the real question here is. Does the extra
$4000.00 over ride a properly adjusted OEM system? If there was a system
that used the OEM drums I think you would have a lot more customers
considering installation. I'm thinking most folks would opt for a Q-bag
system before the rear disc brake system.
Your engineering on these things is awesome but I'm thinking the $4000.00 is
a bit of a price barrier here.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks
Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
Anza, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Aulgur" <cwasdc@sbcglobal.net>
To: "GMCnet" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 10:42 AM
Subject: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES
> Any discussion about the rear brake torque reaction system presented
> at the Auburn GMCWS rally and actually driving Rick's Flanagan's
> coach lasted about two day on the net and people were back posting
> about more interesting items. Are there any folks on the net that
> drove Rick's coach,or is there anyone that know someone that drove
> Rick's coach other then Steve F.? Everyone knows that Steve is a
> very savvy GMC technical person and is not afraid to speak his mind.
> For him to say that Rick's coach stopped better then his 2010 pickup
> was about as good of an endorsement as anyone could make. We need
> some of the other drivers of Rick's coach to come on the net and
> state there thoughts, good or bad. I have been presenting this
> modification at various GMC rallies for almost 4 years with very
> little interest shown and there are only 4 GMCs in the USA that have
> installed this modification. At the Auburn rally, I had numerous GMC
> openers stop by and tell me what all they had done to get "great"
> brakes on there coaches and how happy they were with there brakes. I
> asked everyone one of them to go drive Rick's GMC and come back and
> tell me if they were still happy with their brakes, Most of them did
> drive or ride in Rick's coach but there was not one person that came
> back and told me they were still happy with their current brakes.
>
> The OEM drum brakes on a GMC have excellent braking capability but
> there is nothing that anyone can do that I know of that will
> eliminate the 50% brake loss caused by the GMC swing arm suspension.
> There are ways one can eliminate the lifting of the rear of the coach
> during braking but that only reduces shifting weight to the front
> brakes. With the OEM GMC brakes, you cannot prevent overloading the
> mid axle and front wheel tires even during moderate braking braking.
>
> We need to get some of you engineers and highly tech savvy folks to
> express some of your thoughts/concerns. Until we get some of you
> folks east of the Rockies to install the system on your coaches and
> let people drive them at rallies will we ever get thing moving and
> possibly save some GMCs and/passengers.
>
> Chuck Aulgur
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES [message #86875 is a reply to message #86829] |
Tue, 01 June 2010 20:45 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Chuck,
The only reason I drove Rick's GMC is because two of the folks, and
two of the passengers were raving about it. I had to see for myself.
A lot of guys drove that coach but I'm not sure how many are on this
net.
"Drivin it is 'believin it!
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Charles Aulgur <cwasdc@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Any discussion about the rear brake torque reaction system presented
> at the Auburn GMCWS rally and actually driving Rick's Flanagan's
> coach lasted about two day on the net and people were back posting
> about more interesting items. Are there any folks on the net that
> drove Rick's coach,or is there anyone that know someone that drove
> Rick's coach other then Steve F.? Everyone knows that Steve is a
> very savvy GMC technical person and is not afraid to speak his mind.
> For him to say that Rick's coach stopped better then his 2010 pickup
> was about as good of an endorsement as anyone could make. We need
> some of the other drivers of Rick's coach to come on the net and
> state there thoughts, good or bad. I have been presenting this
> modification at various GMC rallies for almost 4 years with very
> little interest shown and there are only 4 GMCs in the USA that have
> installed this modification. At the Auburn rally, I had numerous GMC
> openers stop by and tell me what all they had done to get "great"
> brakes on there coaches and how happy they were with there brakes. I
> asked everyone one of them to go drive Rick's GMC and come back and
> tell me if they were still happy with their brakes, Most of them did
> drive or ride in Rick's coach but there was not one person that came
> back and told me they were still happy with their current brakes.
>
> The OEM drum brakes on a GMC have excellent braking capability but
> there is nothing that anyone can do that I know of that will
> eliminate the 50% brake loss caused by the GMC swing arm suspension.
> There are ways one can eliminate the lifting of the rear of the coach
> during braking but that only reduces shifting weight to the front
> brakes. With the OEM GMC brakes, you cannot prevent overloading the
> mid axle and front wheel tires even during moderate braking braking.
>
> We need to get some of you engineers and highly tech savvy folks to
> express some of your thoughts/concerns. Until we get some of you
> folks east of the Rockies to install the system on your coaches and
> let people drive them at rallies will we ever get thing moving and
> possibly save some GMCs and/passengers.
>
> Chuck Aulgur
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES [message #86897 is a reply to message #86875] |
Tue, 01 June 2010 23:31 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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We have been figuring out ways to reduce cost on both the Disc brake
and the Reaction Arm system.
I have even considered selling them at a loss on 4 units to people
across the country that can give us a fair evaluation.
Even then, the cost cannot get much below $4000.
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chuck,
> Â The only reason I drove Rick's GMC is because two of the folks, and
> two of the passengers were raving about it. Â I had to see for myself.
> A lot of guys drove that coach but I'm not sure how many are on this
> net.
> Â "Drivin it is 'believin it!
>
> On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Charles Aulgur <cwasdc@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> Any discussion about the rear brake torque reaction system presented
>> at the Auburn GMCWS rally and actually driving Rick's Flanagan's
>> coach lasted about two day on the net and people were back posting
>> about more interesting items. Â Are there any folks on the net that
>> drove Rick's coach,or is there anyone that know someone that drove
>> Rick's coach other then Steve F.? Â Everyone knows that Steve is a
>> very savvy GMC technical person and is not afraid to speak his mind.
>> For him to say that Rick's coach stopped better then his 2010 pickup
>> was about as good of an endorsement as anyone could make. Â We need
>> some of the other drivers of Rick's coach to come on the net and
>> state there thoughts, good or bad. I have been presenting this
>> modification at various GMC rallies for almost 4 years with very
>> little interest shown and there are only 4 GMCs in the USA that have
>> installed this modification. At the Auburn rally, I had numerous GMC
>> openers stop by and tell me what all they had done to get "great"
>> brakes on there coaches and how happy they were with there brakes. Â I
>> asked everyone one of them to go drive Rick's  GMC and come back and
>> tell me if they were still happy with their brakes, Â Most of them did
>> drive or ride in Rick's coach but there was not one person that came
>> back and told me they were still happy with their current brakes.
>>
>> The OEM drum brakes on a GMC have excellent braking capability but
>> there is nothing that anyone can do that I know of that will
>> eliminate the 50% brake loss caused by the GMC swing arm suspension.
>> There are ways one can eliminate the lifting of the rear of the coach
>> during braking but that only reduces shifting weight to the front
>> brakes. Â With the OEM GMC brakes, you cannot prevent overloading the
>> mid axle and front wheel tires even during moderate braking braking.
>>
>> We need to get some of you engineers and highly tech savvy folks to
>> express some of your thoughts/concerns. Â Until we get some of you
>> folks east of the Rockies to install the system on your coaches and
>> let people drive them at rallies will we ever get thing moving and
>> possibly save some GMCs and/passengers.
>>
>> Chuck Aulgur
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Ferguson
> '76 EII
> Sierra Vista, AZ
> Urethane bushing source
> www.bdub.net/ferguson/
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES [message #86899 is a reply to message #86829] |
Wed, 02 June 2010 00:38 |
kincaid76royale
Messages: 71
Registered: February 2005
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Hi All:
Thank you Chuck and Jim and Rick for persisting with the development of the
reaction braking system.
I did not need to drive Ricks coach because it made so much sense that we
are saving up for this system for our coach. While folllowing me and
witnessing a panic stop Mary's description was exactly what was talked
about. Since the first days of purchasing our GMC our constant concerns have
been braking and steering. Neither issue is what we would like as yet but it
is driveable and we are working to improve both to where we are comfortable.
We are retirees and have to manage our money but we believe that owning a
GMC is a hobby and a way of life not a way to go camping on the cheap. If
needed improvements become available we will add them. Thank you vendors for
making our fun possible!
Jack & Mary Kincaid, Castro Valley, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Aulgur" <cwasdc@sbcglobal.net>
To: "GMCnet" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 10:42 AM
Subject: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES
> Any discussion about the rear brake torque reaction system presented
> at the Auburn GMCWS rally and actually driving Rick's Flanagan's
> coach lasted about two day on the net and people were back posting
> about more interesting items. Are there any folks on the net that
> drove Rick's coach,or is there anyone that know someone that drove
> Rick's coach other then Steve F.? Everyone knows that Steve is a
> very savvy GMC technical person and is not afraid to speak his mind.
> For him to say that Rick's coach stopped better then his 2010 pickup
> was about as good of an endorsement as anyone could make. We need
> some of the other drivers of Rick's coach to come on the net and
> state there thoughts, good or bad. I have been presenting this
> modification at various GMC rallies for almost 4 years with very
> little interest shown and there are only 4 GMCs in the USA that have
> installed this modification. At the Auburn rally, I had numerous GMC
> openers stop by and tell me what all they had done to get "great"
> brakes on there coaches and how happy they were with there brakes. I
> asked everyone one of them to go drive Rick's GMC and come back and
> tell me if they were still happy with their brakes, Most of them did
> drive or ride in Rick's coach but there was not one person that came
> back and told me they were still happy with their current brakes.
>
> The OEM drum brakes on a GMC have excellent braking capability but
> there is nothing that anyone can do that I know of that will
> eliminate the 50% brake loss caused by the GMC swing arm suspension.
> There are ways one can eliminate the lifting of the rear of the coach
> during braking but that only reduces shifting weight to the front
> brakes. With the OEM GMC brakes, you cannot prevent overloading the
> mid axle and front wheel tires even during moderate braking braking.
>
> We need to get some of you engineers and highly tech savvy folks to
> express some of your thoughts/concerns. Until we get some of you
> folks east of the Rockies to install the system on your coaches and
> let people drive them at rallies will we ever get thing moving and
> possibly save some GMCs and/passengers.
>
> Chuck Aulgur
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES [message #86917 is a reply to message #86897] |
Wed, 02 June 2010 07:48 |
Fin Beven
Messages: 101
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Like Jack Kincade, I'm starting to "save up" for the rear brake system.
Fin Beven
1976 ex-Edgemont
Pasadena, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Kanomata" <jimkanomata@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES
> We have been figuring out ways to reduce cost on both the Disc brake
> and the Reaction Arm system.
> I have even considered selling them at a loss on 4 units to people
> across the country that can give us a fair evaluation.
> Even then, the cost cannot get much below $4000.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Chuck,
> > The only reason I drove Rick's GMC is because two of the folks, and
> > two of the passengers were raving about it. I had to see for myself.
> > A lot of guys drove that coach but I'm not sure how many are on this
> > net.
> > "Drivin it is 'believin it!
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Charles Aulgur <cwasdc@sbcglobal.net>
> > wrote:
> >> Any discussion about the rear brake torque reaction system presented
> >> at the Auburn GMCWS rally and actually driving Rick's Flanagan's
> >> coach lasted about two day on the net and people were back posting
> >> about more interesting items. Are there any folks on the net that
> >> drove Rick's coach,or is there anyone that know someone that drove
> >> Rick's coach other then Steve F.? Everyone knows that Steve is a
> >> very savvy GMC technical person and is not afraid to speak his mind.
> >> For him to say that Rick's coach stopped better then his 2010 pickup
> >> was about as good of an endorsement as anyone could make. We need
> >> some of the other drivers of Rick's coach to come on the net and
> >> state there thoughts, good or bad. I have been presenting this
> >> modification at various GMC rallies for almost 4 years with very
> >> little interest shown and there are only 4 GMCs in the USA that have
> >> installed this modification. At the Auburn rally, I had numerous GMC
> >> openers stop by and tell me what all they had done to get "great"
> >> brakes on there coaches and how happy they were with there brakes. I
> >> asked everyone one of them to go drive Rick's GMC and come back and
> >> tell me if they were still happy with their brakes, Most of them did
> >> drive or ride in Rick's coach but there was not one person that came
> >> back and told me they were still happy with their current brakes.
> >>
> >> The OEM drum brakes on a GMC have excellent braking capability but
> >> there is nothing that anyone can do that I know of that will
> >> eliminate the 50% brake loss caused by the GMC swing arm suspension.
> >> There are ways one can eliminate the lifting of the rear of the coach
> >> during braking but that only reduces shifting weight to the front
> >> brakes. With the OEM GMC brakes, you cannot prevent overloading the
> >> mid axle and front wheel tires even during moderate braking braking.
> >>
> >> We need to get some of you engineers and highly tech savvy folks to
> >> express some of your thoughts/concerns. Until we get some of you
> >> folks east of the Rockies to install the system on your coaches and
> >> let people drive them at rallies will we ever get thing moving and
> >> possibly save some GMCs and/passengers.
> >>
> >> Chuck Aulgur
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> List Information and Subscription Options:
> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Steve Ferguson
> > '76 EII
> > Sierra Vista, AZ
> > Urethane bushing source
> > www.bdub.net/ferguson/
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES [message #87005 is a reply to message #86917] |
Wed, 02 June 2010 17:52 |
Vince Kirkhuff
Messages: 12
Registered: May 2009
Karma: 0
|
Junior Member |
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I drove Rick's coach in Auburn and I will say it is truly amazing. It stops exactly like my wife's mini-van. Stops straight, true, easy and fast. Like I told Rick, next spare $5000 I have, I'm gonna buy it.
-- Vince
--- On Wed, 6/2/10, Fin Beven <FinBeven@MSN.com> wrote:
> From: Fin Beven <FinBeven@MSN.com>
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Wednesday, June 2, 2010, 5:48 AM
> Like Jack Kincade, I'm starting to
> "save up" for the rear brake system.
>
> Fin Beven
> 1976 ex-Edgemont
> Pasadena, CA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Kanomata" <jimkanomata@gmail.com>
> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 9:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES
>
>
> > We have been figuring out ways to reduce cost on
> both the Disc brake
> > and the Reaction Arm system.
> > I have even considered selling them at a loss on 4
> units to people
> > across the country that can give us a fair
> evaluation.
> > Even then, the cost cannot get much below $4000.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com>
>
> > wrote:
> > > Chuck,
> > > The only reason I drove Rick's GMC is because two
> of the folks, and
> > > two of the passengers were raving about it. I had
> to see for myself.
> > > A lot of guys drove that coach but I'm not sure
> how many are on this
> > > net.
> > > "Drivin it is 'believin it!
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Charles Aulgur
> <cwasdc@sbcglobal.net>
>
> > > wrote:
> > >> Any discussion about the rear brake torque
> reaction system presented
> > >> at the Auburn GMCWS rally and actually
> driving Rick's Flanagan's
> > >> coach lasted about two day on the net and
> people were back posting
> > >> about more interesting items. Are there any
> folks on the net that
> > >> drove Rick's coach,or is there anyone that
> know someone that drove
> > >> Rick's coach other then Steve F.? Everyone
> knows that Steve is a
> > >> very savvy GMC technical person and is not
> afraid to speak his mind.
> > >> For him to say that Rick's coach stopped
> better then his 2010 pickup
> > >> was about as good of an endorsement as anyone
> could make. We need
> > >> some of the other drivers of Rick's coach to
> come on the net and
> > >> state there thoughts, good or bad. I have
> been presenting this
> > >> modification at various GMC rallies for
> almost 4 years with very
> > >> little interest shown and there are only 4
> GMCs in the USA that have
> > >> installed this modification. At the Auburn
> rally, I had numerous GMC
> > >> openers stop by and tell me what all they had
> done to get "great"
> > >> brakes on there coaches and how happy they
> were with there brakes. I
> > >> asked everyone one of them to go drive Rick's
> GMC and come back and
> > >> tell me if they were still happy with their
> brakes, Most of them did
> > >> drive or ride in Rick's coach but there was
> not one person that came
> > >> back and told me they were still happy with
> their current brakes.
> > >>
> > >> The OEM drum brakes on a GMC have excellent
> braking capability but
> > >> there is nothing that anyone can do that I
> know of that will
> > >> eliminate the 50% brake loss caused by the
> GMC swing arm suspension.
> > >> There are ways one can eliminate the lifting
> of the rear of the coach
> > >> during braking but that only reduces shifting
> weight to the front
> > >> brakes. With the OEM GMC brakes, you cannot
> prevent overloading the
> > >> mid axle and front wheel tires even during
> moderate braking braking.
> > >>
> > >> We need to get some of you engineers and
> highly tech savvy folks to
> > >> express some of your thoughts/concerns. Until
> we get some of you
> > >> folks east of the Rockies to install the
> system on your coaches and
> > >> let people drive them at rallies will we ever
> get thing moving and
> > >> possibly save some GMCs and/passengers.
> > >>
> > >> Chuck Aulgur
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> _______________________________________________
> > >> GMCnet mailing list
> > >> List Information and Subscription Options:
> > >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Steve Ferguson
> > > '76 EII
> > > Sierra Vista, AZ
> > > Urethane bushing source
> > > www.bdub.net/ferguson/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jim Kanomata
> > Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> > jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> > http://www.appliedgmc.com
> > 1-800-752-7502
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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Vince Kirkhuff
1977 Eleganza II
San Luis Obispo, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES [message #87043 is a reply to message #86829] |
Thu, 03 June 2010 00:17 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Chuck, send me one and I will gladly install it on my coach for people around these parts to try. 
BTW, I'm an engineer with mechanical aptitude, not a mechanic.
Seriously, I am interested, but like most other folks here, many other things need to be done first, like actually being able to drive the coach. I have stock brakes, and they work sufficiently. I do want better braking someday, but like most here, I can "live with" what I have, and disc brakes will most likely be the first choice, the reaction arm second. A package deal would be nice...
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES [message #87135 is a reply to message #86829] |
Thu, 03 June 2010 16:25 |
rick flanagan
Messages: 26
Registered: May 2010
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Fellow GMCers,
This is what we found through lots of testing.
People don’t realize just how inadequate their properly adjusted OEM brakes are. Just because you can get scratch on all 6 tires doesn’t mean you stop better. I have experienced this first hand, when I screeched all 6 right on through a major intersection in Bozeman Montana at 50 mph. Brand new, properly adjusted OEM brakes feel pretty good especially compared to the worn out brakes you had. They feel GREAT around town & under relaxed slowing at freeway speeds. Where they fall short is in a panic stop, when the brake lights come on unexpectedly right in front of you. That’s when you wish you had that extra 50% of stopping we loose because of the GMC’s swing arms. You see, under a hard stop, the swing arms cause the rear bogie tire to lift & unload rendering it ineffective. When that happens, it puts more load on the forward bogie tires & they unload. This then puts more load on the front tires &, well you get the idea.
Disk brakes feel even better around town & slowing under highway speeds, but from testing we found that they make the brakes lock up even quicker under panic stops. Too much braking can be dangerous, that‘s why anti-lock brakes were developed. (That’s a topic for later.)
Early on, the first guy I had drive my coach with the reaction arm said that he couldn’t feel any difference between his drum brakes & mine. I was shocked. Later I realized he just drove it around & sometimes applied the brakes a little harder then normal. NOT ENOUGH! Standard brakes feel fine until you hit them HARD. That’s why at Auburn I had to twist arms first to get anyone to drive my coach, then to NAIL THOSE BRAKES. It wasn’t until they did that that they under stood what we have all been missing.
You mentioned that, “If there was a system that used OEM drums we would have a lot more customers considering installation,” I feel that would be a BIG mistake because, (A) The cost to make a replacement adapter mounting plate with bearing & reattaching all that stuff would be prohibitive, even more expensive then disks. (B) Drum brakes are more complicated, need periodic adjustments, easily overheat & don’t like getting wet. Do I need to list the virtues of modern disk brakes? During testing we found that having brakes that are TOO good will cause skidding even with the reaction arm. The key is to get the right of friction that will safely stop the coach without causing it to skid. The combination we settled on for my 26’ 12,000 pound coach was 80mm brakes on front & forward bogies & 70mm brakes on rear bogies. Pad types made some difference, but not appreciable.
Look folks this is fundamental, nothing we do, wider brake shoes, disk brakes, sticky pads, even adding the Quadra-Bag will eliminate the dangerous of panic stopping caused by the swing arms. I thought that screeching the tires & praying to stop was a natural part of driving an RV. I was wrong. Thank you Chuck.
Sincerely,
Rick Flanagan
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| Re: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES [message #87260 is a reply to message #87135] |
Fri, 04 June 2010 09:08 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Rick,
Good to see you posting here. I hope you'll continue and will divulge more
details of the design and configuration of the system. I've always been a
big proponent of the concept since Chuck and Norm Jestico almost
simultaneously and independently introduced it to us. What I've been
missing (thanks largely to being absent from the past few rallies) is the
details of the design such as:
1. The specific configuration of the brakes on your test vehicle (which
you've just given us).
2. The extent of the disk brake modifications necessary to convert to the
system; i.e., I've already got disk brakes -- can I just mount my calipers
on the mounts which I ASSUME are a part of the reaction arm kit? In other
words is the reaction arm kit my only new cost?
3. The bearing arrangement for the rotating caliper mount is a mystery --
what type bearing is used? Does it require periodic adjustment? Is it an
off-the-shelf part or will JimK be saddled with support for the next 30+
years of GMC life? How is it protected from the hostile environment? I
understand that there are Zerk fittings -- where (accessibility)? Will
there be any other preventative maintenance?
4. The pivots for the reaction arms -- are they bushings, ball joints,
what?
5. Probably more I'm not thinking of at the moment...
These are all questions which anyone considering the system should be
interested in, and those of us who are really greasy-handed will be. You
are the most qualified to give us the answers. I think having it all
publicized will generate more adoptions.
Thanks,
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 5:25 PM, rick flanagan <rflanagan@powis.com> wrote:
>
>
> Fellow GMCers,
> This is what we found through lots of testing...
_______________________________________________
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES [message #87299 is a reply to message #86829] |
Fri, 04 June 2010 15:43 |
captjack
Messages: 271
Registered: February 2010
Location: Sebastopol, California
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Hi,
I'm an engineer and fairly good mechanic and drove Rich's coach. As others have said, it's a significant improvement in braking. I was loath to jam on the brakes for fear of skidding, but Rich egged me on and even challenged my manhood. So, I did as hard braking and I could -- no skidding, stopped like a car. Their test data showed stopping distances at 35 mph reduced from something like 90+ feet with the OEM brake system to the mid 50's with Chuck's system, and a quick drive convinces you that it's true. It's on my list of things to do, but first the leaking holding tank and front suspension need attention.
Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
'76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet",
Sebastopol, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES [message #87382 is a reply to message #87347] |
Sat, 05 June 2010 12:17 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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My first experience with the reaction arm on my coach was the feel of
not having the rear rise when I would slam on the brake.
It took me time to realize that the energy that use to lift the coach
when you apply the brake was no longer doing that and it was all going
into the braking.
I had concern at Auburn when Rick was taking 2-3 other people to test
drive the coach with the arm. Concern was possible overhearing of the
brakes after about 4 group runs with severe stops. Rick had a full
water and fuel,along with additional 500-700 lbs of people on the
coach.
I believe he had around 8 runs one after another.
Well, the brakes remained normal and continued to function.
Rick made all the drivers slam on the brakes and they were amassed
that it did not skid.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 4:22 AM, Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good post Rick,
> Â I have done it all to my OEM setup. Between the PowerMaster, pads,
> shoes etc, I have left no stone unturned. Â I thought I had pretty darn
> good braking until I drove your coach. Â Not even a whisper of
> comparison between the two. Â If I keep this GMC, or get another, I
> will have the reaction arm setup. Â There is not even a question in my
> mind about this and I consider this option as mandatory as getting the
> coach to move under it's own power.
> Â Shift to plain text in your email program please. Â Too many words I
> don't know the meaning of in your post.
>
> --
> Steve Ferguson
> '76 EII
> Sierra Vista, AZ
> Urethane bushing source
> www.bdub.net/ferguson/
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
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>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES [message #87389 is a reply to message #87260] |
Sat, 05 June 2010 13:30 |
rick flanagan
Messages: 26
Registered: May 2010
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Ken,
To answer a few of your questions:
1. 80mm disk brakes with ceramic pads on front & forward bogies and 70mm disk brakes on rear bogies with metallic pads.
2. We’ll need more information on your brake setup. Jim Kanomata will be the best person to answer this question.
3. The distance between the spindle flange & end of the hub is very limited. Varies from coach to coach & between bearing sets. We designed a CUSTOM bronze bushing for this space, because of space limitations, dirty environment & multiple spindle diameters to seat on. There is a zert fitting at one end of the caliper adapter plate with grease grooves on both ID & OD of the bushing. We used a standard 1-1/2” ID x 1-1/4” long bronze bushing on the torque box side. It is also greased by a zert located on the backside of the torque box.
4. We used urethane A-arm bushings on both ends of the reaction arm on the REV 1 design. On REV 2 WITH THE SWAY BARS, we use a LARGE urethane bushing with grease grooves where the sway bar mounts to the frame. The custom sway bar end is formed with a ¾” hole punched in it. This slips over a .74” OD case-hardened steel sleeve that is pinched between the two triangular shaped ears on the torque box. ¾” flat washers are stacked on either side of the sway bar end to take up the majority of the extra space along with two ¼” thick o-rings to cushion some of the vector loading from the sway bar. We use the flat washers, because the distance between bogie arms is not the same on all coaches.
5. Yes, there is more to this then meets the eye. It’s designed to flex with the bogie arms when backing, turning & going over rough roads. It’s designed with interchangeable parts that will fit onto any GMC coach. (As far as I know)
Last night I put together a few exploded views of the reaction arm system. I've attached them to this post, see below.
Cheers,
Rick Flanagan
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| Re: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES [message #87420 is a reply to message #87389] |
Sat, 05 June 2010 17:32 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Rick,
Thank you for the detailed reply. It's helped considerably.
Unfortunately, our mailing list does not accept or convey attachments. Just
as it accepts only plain text (Ex: Your quotation marks for "inch" appear
as "–" since you're apparently using Rich Text Format).
Can you post the additional drawings to GMCMHPhotos.com, or forward them
directly to one of us who can do so?
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 2:30 PM, rick flanagan <rflanagan@powis.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ken,
> To answer a few of your questions:
>
> 1. 80mm disk brakes with ceramic pads on front & forward bogies and
> 70mm disk brakes on rear bogies with metallic pads.
>
> 2. We’ll need more information on your brake setup. Jim Kanomata
> will be the best person to answer this question.
>
> 3. The distance between the spindle flange & end of the hub is very
> limited. Varies from coach to coach & between bearing sets. We designed a
> CUSTOM bronze bushing for this space, because of space limitations, dirty
> environment & multiple spindle diameters to seat on. There is a zert fitting
> at one end of the caliper adapter plate with grease grooves on both ID & OD
> of the bushing. We used a standard 1-1/2” ID x 1-1/4” long
> bronze bushing on the torque box side. It is also greased by a zert located
> on the backside of the torque box.
>
> 4. We used urethane A-arm bushings on both ends of the reaction arm on
> the REV 1 design. On REV 2 WITH THE SWAY BARS, we use a LARGE urethane
> bushing with grease grooves where the sway bar mounts to the frame. The
> custom sway bar end is formed with a ¾” hole punched in it. This
> slips over a .74” OD case-hardened steel sleeve that is pinched
> between the two triangular shaped ears on the torque box. ¾” flat
> washers are stacked on either side of the sway bar end to take up the
> majority of the extra space along with two ¼” thick o-rings to
> cushion some of the vector loading from the sway bar. We use the flat
> washers, because the distance between bogie arms is not the same on all
> coaches.
>
> 5. Yes, there is more to this then meets the eye. It’s designed
> to flex with the bogie arms when backing, turning & going over rough roads.
> It’s designed with interchangeable parts that will fit onto any GMC
> coach. (As far as I know)
>
> Last night I put together a few exploded views of the reaction arm system.
> I've attached them to this post, see below.
>
> Cheers,
> Rick Flanagan
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES [message #87423 is a reply to message #87389] |
Sat, 05 June 2010 17:38 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Rick,
The GMCnet email system does not allow attachments so I've posted your
pictures to the Photo site, trust you do not mind.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=34235
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=34236
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=34237
Chuck,
I suggest you copy and put them with the ones you've posted. Once you do
I'll delete them.
Ken,
Here's a series of pictures of the system that Chuck has posted to the Photo
site.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=31932
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: rick flanagan
Ken,
Last night I put together a few exploded views of the reaction arm system.
I've attached them to this post, see below.
_______________________________________________
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] AUBURN RALLY ATTENDIES [message #87433 is a reply to message #87423] |
Sat, 05 June 2010 18:34 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
Thanks!
Rick,
Those drawings are great! Now I feel like I understand most of the details.
And, of course, have more questions:
1. How do you adjust the axial play for manufacturing and wear variations?
With the shim washer inside the torque box? If so, is it feasible to R&R
the torque box to adjust for wear without removing the wheel hub?
2. I presume there's clearance between the wheel hub inner seal and your
custom bronze bushing so that there's NO interaction between them; true?
3. Chuck has mentioned that even if the reaction arm should fail/come
loose, normal braking will still be available. That's reassuring until I
consider the shear forces that will be imposed on the spindle bolts -- seems
to me one should stop (GENTLY) ONCE after a link failure. I'd want to
consider whether there should be an independent stop capable of withstanding
more shear.
4. I foresee a market for someone's flexible grease hoses to bring those
Zerk fittings out to the face of the bogie so they can be hit as frequently
as the bogie pins. :-) When that happens, there will be a build up of
grease around the outer side of the caliper mount, against the wheel hub.
What will keep that grease from migrating out onto the friction surface of
the disc?
Nice work, Rick. Please don't be offended by my questions: They're not
meant to be critical, just seeking information and hoping to help address
issues before they arrive. It may help to know that the last few years of
my USAF career were spent as Chief of Reliability & Maintainability
Engineering for a LOT of USAF equipment. Numerous VERY expensive equipment
failures forced me to become more than a little sensitive to such issues.
Thanks for your efforts.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Rick,
>
> The GMCnet email system does not allow attachments so I've posted your
> pictures to the Photo site, trust you do not mind.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=34235
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=34236
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=34237
> ...
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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