| Frigiking AC unit [message #84903] |
Mon, 17 May 2010 07:24  |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
Karma: 0
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I hope i am not venturing too far away from GMC specific in asking about the Frigiking AC unit in my Revcon.
I guess these were aftermarket AC's installed in cars in the 60s and 70s? THey seem to show up in Mercedes and VOlvos.
Anyway, I'm starting from scratch. There is no pressure in the sytem. The compressor spins smoothly.
My google research suggests they do well with a simple R134 conversion.
I'm intrigued by duracool but i had an AC line blow out once and it kinda' freaks me out to have pressurized butane under the hood.
dave
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Frigiking AC unit [message #84919 is a reply to message #84903] |
Mon, 17 May 2010 08:41  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Dave,
Emery did a presentation on A/C at Pueblo and noted that the chances of an
fire/explosion caused by Duracool were minuscule.
They've been using HyChill here in Australia for YEARS without incident.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of dave silva
Sent: Monday, 17 May 2010 10:25 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Frigiking AC unit
I hope i am not venturing too far away from GMC specific in asking about the
Frigiking AC unit in my Revcon.
I guess these were aftermarket AC's installed in cars in the 60s and 70s?
THey seem to show up in Mercedes and VOlvos.
Anyway, I'm starting from scratch. There is no pressure in the sytem. The
compressor spins smoothly.
My google research suggests they do well with a simple R134 conversion.
I'm intrigued by duracool but i had an AC line blow out once and it kinda'
freaks me out to have pressurized butane under the hood.
dave
--
Free to good home- the rest of a 1974 GMC. good for extension, or trailer.
But you gotta' take the whole thing -zip 27944- rear wheels, glass, etc.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Frigiking AC unit [message #84944 is a reply to message #84919] |
Mon, 17 May 2010 11:05 |
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hnielsen2
Messages: 1434
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alpine CA
Karma: 0
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Dave;
How about pressurized butane in your 20 gallon tank?
I feel safe using it.
Howard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Frigiking AC unit
> Dave,
>
> Emery did a presentation on A/C at Pueblo and noted that the chances of an
> fire/explosion caused by Duracool were minuscule.
>
> They've been using HyChill here in Australia for YEARS without incident.
>
> Regards,
> Rob Mueller
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of dave silva
> Sent: Monday, 17 May 2010 10:25 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] Frigiking AC unit
>
> I hope i am not venturing too far away from GMC specific in asking about
> the
> Frigiking AC unit in my Revcon.
>
> I guess these were aftermarket AC's installed in cars in the 60s and 70s?
> THey seem to show up in Mercedes and VOlvos.
>
> Anyway, I'm starting from scratch. There is no pressure in the sytem. The
> compressor spins smoothly.
>
> My google research suggests they do well with a simple R134 conversion.
>
> I'm intrigued by duracool but i had an AC line blow out once and it kinda'
> freaks me out to have pressurized butane under the hood.
>
> dave
> --
> Free to good home- the rest of a 1974 GMC. good for extension, or trailer.
> But you gotta' take the whole thing -zip 27944- rear wheels, glass, etc.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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All is well with my Lord
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| Re: Frigiking AC unit [message #84948 is a reply to message #84903] |
Mon, 17 May 2010 11:38 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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R134A is highly flammable. Freon was king!
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: Frigiking AC unit [message #84949 is a reply to message #84948] |
Mon, 17 May 2010 11:51 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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When I was repairing A/C units in my other life I kept my jug of R22 handy when I was using my welding rig on roof tops. The freon did make a good fire extinguisher without the powder residue of a real extinguisher. The only drawback was the fozgene gas which would not be good indoors.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: Frigiking AC unit [message #84950 is a reply to message #84948] |
Mon, 17 May 2010 11:51 |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
Karma: 0
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I have no problem being educated. I did not know R134 was flammable.
So when i was driving along in my 1997 GMC Safari and the AC line blew violently and then hissed for a long time, i was, in fact, spewing a flammable gas under the hood? Good to know.
The flammability of Duracool was only part of my question.
On other forums where folks are restoring old cars that had Frigiking AC installed they are apparently having good luck converting them to R134.
I'm open to any input anyone has on how to proceed.
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: Frigiking AC unit [message #84956 is a reply to message #84950] |
Mon, 17 May 2010 12:01 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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I never checked to see how flammable 134 is but I can tell you the oil spray that accompanies a violent leak in any kind of refrigerant leak is definitely flammable. I can still remember as an apprentice unsweating a 2 5/8" discharge line with a torch that I was sure had no pressure in it . Talk about a flame thrower that was a wakeup call.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: Frigiking AC unit [message #84997 is a reply to message #84959] |
Mon, 17 May 2010 16:36 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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The roof AC units use R22, so not sure if there is an equivalent for that. If there is, someone here will surely pipe in. Those rooftop units could sure use a "colder" refrigerant, and also a separate motor for the Outdoor Fan. They would work best with the Outdoor Fan running at high speed and the Indoor fan running at low speed.
I'm tempted to decouple the outdoor fan from the Motor and add a separate fan to do just that. You'd get better cooling with less noise inside the coach. Maybe use a 12V Radiator fan mounted on top drawing through the Condenser in the other direction, and blocking the side vents. Just not sure how much Air I need across the compressor to keep it relatively cool. I have two of them laying around.
Just my opinion. I still think the Rooftop units are crap and ready for a paradigm shift in engineering away from their humble origins from window units. Mini Split parts maybe, with the outdoor unit laid on it's side and the compressor mounted 90* so it stays upright.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: Frigiking AC unit [message #85039 is a reply to message #84997] |
Mon, 17 May 2010 22:38 |
Erv Troyer
Messages: 125
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lagrange, IN
Karma: 0
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On Mon, 17 May 2010 16:36 Chris wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The roof AC units use R22, so not sure if there is an equivalent for that. If there is, someone here will surely pipe in.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
There are a number of replacements being used for R-22. See more at this link: (more than you really wanted to know) http://tinyurl.com/28khto4
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Those rooftop units could sure use a "colder" refrigerant, and also a separate motor for the Outdoor Fan. They would work best with the Outdoor Fan running at high speed and the Indoor fan running at low speed.
I'm tempted to decouple the outdoor fan from the Motor and add a separate fan to do just that. You'd get better cooling with less noise inside the coach.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I'm not sure what you mean by "colder" refrigerant. R-22 evaporates at minus 44°F, so the pressure in the system must be kept high enough to keep coil surfaces above 32°F to keep the condensate from freezing. It is just not possible to have anything colder than that.
A slower indoor fan would make the air temperature lower (colder), but that is not the same as "better cooling". Maximum cooling output is directly related to maximum air flow - across both the outdoor and indoor coils. Separate motors would allow quieter operation at a slight loss to cooling output, but would increase the cost of the unit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Just my opinion. I still think the Rooftop units are crap and ready for a paradigm shift in engineering away from their humble origins from window units. Mini Split parts maybe, with the outdoor unit laid on it's side and the compressor mounted 90* so it stays upright.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Duo-Therm invented the roof mount RV air conditioner in 1955. At that time they were quite bulky, expensive, and noisy. Through the years many improvements have been made - they are much lighter, smaller, and cheaper, and they are still the design of choice, from pop-up campers to million dollar motorhomes. One of the best improvements has been ceiling ducts to distribute the cool air.
Why choose a roof mount instead of the built-in units, which are still available? During another life I worked for Duo-Therm, and during that time we designed a built-in air conditioner - two of these systems were in every FMC motorhome that was built. We also developed a split system with separate indoor and outdoor sections. (I gave one of these to Emery Stora a few years ago - got it installed yet, Emery?) When these were introduced we thought these would replace the roof mount units, but as you can see that did not happen. Why?
1. RV manufacturers did not want to give up the interior space required for these units and the ductwork needed to deliver the cold air to the top of the coach. These ducts also had to be insulated to prevent condensation on the ducts. This was the first problem we saw with the FMC units - wet closets.
2. The best efficiency and comfort levels are possible with the roof top units. The return air is drawn from the warmest area in the coach, and the cool discharge air at the ceiling will sink to lower levels by gravity. In simple terms, the return and discharge for an RV air conditioner needs to be at the ceiling level, regardless of where the unit is mounted. It is just much simpler to mount the unit up there to begin with.
For the same reasons, a heat pump mounted on the roof is not the best choice for heating. Our GMC has a Duo-Therm heat pump, which works OK in cooling mode, but in heating mode we notice drafts and cool floors. The only time we use the heat pump is when we leave the coach. When we get ready to retire we shut off the roof mount unit and kick on the furnace - much quieter, and we have warm floors.
And thats my 2¢ worth for today...
Erv Troyer Lagrange, IN
74 Sequoia has-been
77 Birchhaven (under re-construction)
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| Re: Frigiking AC unit [message #85053 is a reply to message #85039] |
Tue, 18 May 2010 00:49 |
John Sharpe
Messages: 489
Registered: February 2006
Location: Texas
Karma: 1
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The low profile Carriers have separate fans for the evaporator and the condenser. I don't know about the low profile Duo-Therms.
The furnace is a much better choice for producing heat. However, if you are going to use electricity a heat-pump that puts out 11-13K BTU's produces more heat than a 5K strip heat. I know heat pumps don't work very well below 35 degrees F. But 5K strip heat won't either.
John Sharpe
Humble,TX
'78 Eleganza TBI
'89 Spectrum 2000 MPI V-10
'40 Ford Panel Delivery TPI
johnasharpe@gmail.com
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