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[GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #81770]

Sat, 24 April 2010 17:17

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

G�day,

Dan could you take a picture of the magnet that Joe Mondello recommends be
inserted in the oil filter.

All of the ones I've ever seen go on the outside.

Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75�Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #81773 is a reply to message #81770]

Sat, 24 April 2010 18:15

WD0AFQ

Messages: 7111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Dexter, Mo.

Karma: 207

Senior Member

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=33349&title=mondello-magnet&cat=5443

Ask, and ye shall receive.

Anything else I can do for anyone before we close out?

Dan

3 In Stainless Exhaust Headers One Ton All Discs/Reaction Arm 355 FD/Quad Bag/Alum Radiator Manny Tran/New eng. Holley EFI/10 Tire Air Monitoring System Solarized Coach/Upgraded Windows Satelite TV/On Demand Hot Water/3Way Refer

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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #81774 is a reply to message #81773]

Sat, 24 April 2010 18:23

scott cowden

Messages: 170
Registered: February 2004

Karma: 0

Senior Member

> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=33349&title=mondello-magnet&cat=5443
>
> Ask, and ye shall receive.
>
> Anything else I can do for anyone before we close out?
>
> Dan

I use a MUCH simpler magnet sold under the name FilterMag. Bought them from Dick Paterson. Have them on my coach and my Harley's.

I am constantly amazed at every oil change when, after removing the old filter and cutting it open, to find very, very fine metal particulate in the shape of the magnets in the filtermag on the inside of the filter can.

no messy installation of a magnet. this one simply sticks to the outside of the filter. installs in exactly 1 second!

http://www.shopfiltermag.com/

if anyone wants one, they're available from Dick Paterson at 705-325-4554 or dick@paterson-gmc.com

Scott '74 Glacier Orillia, ON, Canada

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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #81777 is a reply to message #81774]

Sat, 24 April 2010 19:13

WD0AFQ

Messages: 7111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Dexter, Mo.

Karma: 207

Senior Member

I asked about that magnet because I was about to buy one of the big 75 dollar ones. He says this little strong magnet works better, because it is inside. Maybe snakeoil for all I know. Just relaying information from him.
All in all, this has been an excellent gathering if you like technical stuff. Frady, Sirum, Mondello, Mac Daddy. The fella that has the expensive 23 footer blew his engine on the way up here. His presentation was given last evening by Byron Songer. I missed it as we were trying to finish up my Onan update before the rain got here. The guys did an excellent job putting this one together. there will be some excellent presentations put on the Eastern States website next week.
Dan

3 In Stainless Exhaust Headers One Ton All Discs/Reaction Arm 355 FD/Quad Bag/Alum Radiator Manny Tran/New eng. Holley EFI/10 Tire Air Monitoring System Solarized Coach/Upgraded Windows Satelite TV/On Demand Hot Water/3Way Refer

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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #81891 is a reply to message #81777]

Mon, 26 April 2010 00:55

Adrien G.

Messages: 474
Registered: May 2008
Location: Burns Flat, OK 73624

Karma: 1

Senior Member

Dan,
It could be that the magnet inside, which is after the filtering media, may possibly last longer in collecting the few particles remaining.
In that thought, one outside and one inside should really do a bang of a job.
Non ferrous particles are not subjected to the magnets, also with destructive capabilities, so that would be another subject for another day.

Adrien & Jenny Genesoto 75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6

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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #81903 is a reply to message #81770]

Mon, 26 April 2010 07:58

fred v

Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.

Karma: 0

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what about sticking a computer hard drive mag. into the filter?
i've been sticking one on the outside but i don't think it does much there.

Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl

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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #81905 is a reply to message #81903]

Mon, 26 April 2010 08:02

scott cowden

Messages: 170
Registered: February 2004

Karma: 0

Senior Member

> what about sticking a computer hard drive mag. into the filter?
> i've been sticking one on the outside but i don't think it does much there.
>
> --
> Fred V

Fred;

go look at the filtermag website for a photo of the metal collected by having a magnet on the outside of the filter.

remember, magnetism is a field extended through ferrous metals, so the field passes through the filter case and into the oil passing by.

i can speak from personal experience that the external magnet picks up a significant amount of metal particulate. I have cut open several filters post-use and it's clearly visible.

Scott '74 Glacier Orillia, ON, Canada

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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #81923 is a reply to message #81905]

Mon, 26 April 2010 10:13

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

G'day,

I checked the Maintenance Manual X-7525 page 6A-2 ENGINE LUBRICATION SYSTEM
(FIGURE1) and noted that the oil flow is:

- From the pan into the oil pump through a screened inlet
- From the oil pump to the oil cooler in the radiator
- From the oil cooler in the radiator to the oil filter

I then went to page 6A-26 and noted Figure 4 - Oil filter flow which is:

- Into oil filter between ID of the filter can and the OD of the element
- Through the filter element
- Out to the engine

The flow through the oil filter follows standard filter design - flow from
the outside (larger surface area) to the inside (smaller surface area).

This means that the metal particles trapped against the inner surface of the
oil filter housing by the magnet attached to the outside of the filter
housing are particles that might have been caught by the filter element.

Filter Mag advertising shows pictures of a cutaway filter with lots of metal
adhering to the inner wall of the filter can. They claim that it captures
particles that are too small for the element to catch. The assumption is
that all the particles pictured would not have been captured by the filter
element! WRONG! The particles trapped are any and all that have come close
enough for the magnetic field to get stuck regardless of size.

I assume that Joe Mondello noted to put the magnet into the oil filter
through the center threaded hole. That would be would be better as it would
only catch metal that had passed through the filter element. Can someone
confirm that?

For the record I have Filter Mags on the oil filters of The Blue Streak and
Double trouble as well as the trans pans!

Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #81924 is a reply to message #81903]

Mon, 26 April 2010 10:18

midlf

Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)

Karma: 1

Senior Member

fred v wrote on Mon, 26 April 2010 07:58

what about sticking a computer hard drive mag. into the filter?
i've been sticking one on the outside but i don't think it does much there.

You won't know until you cut them apart. Try an few and see if there are particles stuck to the inside of the filter can in the location of the magnet.

Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI

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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #81952 is a reply to message #81770]

Mon, 26 April 2010 13:18

fred v

Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.

Karma: 0

Senior Member

i've cut open one with the wrap around mag. and you can see what it does. i'll try the computer mag inside next change. these are really powerful magnets and are free.

Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl

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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #81991 is a reply to message #81923]

Mon, 26 April 2010 17:12

GMC_LES

Messages: 569
Registered: October 2009
Location: Montreal

Karma: 0

Senior Member

When placing a magnet inside a filter through the threaded hole, you are
placing it on the clean side of the filter element. It will collect a film
of ferrous sludge during use. This brings me to ask this one very important
question:

What would happen to your engine if for some unknown reason, That blob of
fine ferrous particles broke loose from that magnet and flowed downstream to
all the critical parts of your engine?

Placing a magnet on the exterior of the filter allows the ferrous crud to
collect on the dirty side of the filter element. Any ferrous particles that
came loose from the magnet would be caught by the filter. Any particles that
pass through the filter element would be small enough and few enough that
they shouldn't cause any damage. This would be no worse than an engine
running with no magnet at all.

I know I will not be taking any chances, so I'll stick to external magnets
or oil pan magnets. They both work very well at collecting the majority of
ferrous particles circulating in the oil.

Thanks,
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza II 26ft

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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #81992 is a reply to message #81991]

Mon, 26 April 2010 17:19

fred v

Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Les Burt wrote on Mon, 26 April 2010 17:12

When placing a magnet inside a filter through the threaded hole, you are
placing it on the clean side of the filter element. It will collect a film
of ferrous sludge during use. This brings me to ask this one very important
question:

What would happen to your engine if for some unknown reason, That blob of
fine ferrous particles broke loose from that magnet and flowed downstream to
all the critical parts of your engine?

Placing a magnet on the exterior of the filter allows the ferrous crud to
collect on the dirty side of the filter element. Any ferrous particles that
came loose from the magnet would be caught by the filter. Any particles that
pass through the filter element would be small enough and few enough that
they shouldn't cause any damage. This would be no worse than an engine
running with no magnet at all.

I know I will not be taking any chances, so I'll stick to external magnets
or oil pan magnets. They both work very well at collecting the majority of
ferrous particles circulating in the oil.

Thanks,
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza II 26ft

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hmm, good point. wonder what Mondelo would say to that.

Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl

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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #81993 is a reply to message #81991]

Mon, 26 April 2010 17:27

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Burt,

I agree with what you have noted below, however, it seems to me that Joe
Mondello would not be a proponent of inserting the magnet on the clean side
of the filter unless he had good experience doing so.

Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Les Burt
Sent: Tuesday, 27 April 2010 8:13 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet

When placing a magnet inside a filter through the threaded hole, you are
placing it on the clean side of the filter element. It will collect a film
of ferrous sludge during use. This brings me to ask this one very important
question:

What would happen to your engine if for some unknown reason, That blob of
fine ferrous particles broke loose from that magnet and flowed downstream to
all the critical parts of your engine?

Placing a magnet on the exterior of the filter allows the ferrous crud to
collect on the dirty side of the filter element. Any ferrous particles that
came loose from the magnet would be caught by the filter. Any particles that
pass through the filter element would be small enough and few enough that
they shouldn't cause any damage. This would be no worse than an engine
running with no magnet at all.

I know I will not be taking any chances, so I'll stick to external magnets
or oil pan magnets. They both work very well at collecting the majority of
ferrous particles circulating in the oil.

Thanks,
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza II 26ft

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #81996 is a reply to message #81993]

Mon, 26 April 2010 17:43

Dennis S

Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005

Karma: 2

Senior Member

Perhaps the thought is that if the filter would catch the metal why do you need to hold it out of the paper element with an external magnet -- where-as, with the magnet on the clean side it catches what the paper element does not...

Dennis Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 5:27 pm
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet

Burt,
I agree with what you have noted below, however, it seems to me that Joe
ondello would not be a proponent of inserting the magnet on the clean side
f the filter unless he had good experience doing so.
Regards,
ob Mueller
ydney, Australia
US '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
SA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
rom: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Les Burt
ent: Tuesday, 27 April 2010 8:13 AM
o: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
ubject: Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet

hen placing a magnet inside a filter through the threaded hole, you are
lacing it on the clean side of the filter element. It will collect a film
f ferrous sludge during use. This brings me to ask this one very important
uestion:
What would happen to your engine if for some unknown reason, That blob of
ine ferrous particles broke loose from that magnet and flowed downstream to
ll the critical parts of your engine?
Placing a magnet on the exterior of the filter allows the ferrous crud to
ollect on the dirty side of the filter element. Any ferrous particles that
ame loose from the magnet would be caught by the filter. Any particles that
ass through the filter element would be small enough and few enough that
hey shouldn't cause any damage. This would be no worse than an engine
unning with no magnet at all.
I know I will not be taking any chances, so I'll stick to external magnets
r oil pan magnets. They both work very well at collecting the majority of
errous particles circulating in the oil.

hanks,
es Burt
ontreal
975 Eleganza II 26ft
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro

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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #82000 is a reply to message #81993]

Mon, 26 April 2010 17:49

GMC_LES

Messages: 569
Registered: October 2009
Location: Montreal

Karma: 0

Senior Member

I have a lot of respect for Dr Olds as he is obviously a very thorough
person when it comes to analyzing and correcting "weak links". I wasn't
questioning his knowledge or experience. For him, the internal magnet
obviously worked or he would not recommend it.

My honest thoughts on the magnet issue are that placing one on the "clean"
side of the filter media probably wouldn't pose any problems in real life.
Most magnets are strong enough to hold the particles very securely until the
magnet is removed and cleaned at a filter change. My question was more a
"What If" scenario to give people a little something to think about.

My own opinion is that I would rather not intentionally place my engine at
risk. An external magnet will do just as good a job for me.

Thanks,
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza II 26ft

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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #82049 is a reply to message #81770]

Mon, 26 April 2010 22:56

Terry Skinner

Messages: 379
Registered: January 2004

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Rob, if you go by any veterinary you can get a magnet that they put in
cows stomachs to attract pieces of barbed wire fencing. they are about
2.5" long and .75 " across. Been using them for years for all kinds of
things. Or you can just tape a speaker magnet to the
outside............Terry

On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> G�day,
>
> Dan could you take a picture of the magnet that Joe Mondello recommends be
> inserted in the oil filter.
>
> All of the ones I've ever seen go on the outside.
>
> Regards,
> Rob Mueller
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75�Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> _______________________________________________
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> List Information and Subscription Options:
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>

--
Terry Skinner
253-686-2624
Roy. Washington
'76 GMC
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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #82059 is a reply to message #81777]

Tue, 27 April 2010 07:52

Carleton Douglas[1]

Messages: 174
Registered: March 2006

Karma: 0

Senior Member

It could cause a blockage or restriction as it is a full flow filter
all the oil goes through the filter then to the engine, out side one
for me.

On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 5:13 PM, Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I asked about that magnet because I was about to buy one of the big 75 dollar ones. He says this little strong magnet works better, because it is inside. Maybe snakeoil for all I know. Just relaying information from him.
> All in all, this has been an excellent gathering if you like technical stuff. Frady, Sirum, Mondello, Mac Daddy. The fella that has the expensive 23 footer blew his engine on the way up here. His presentation was given last evening by Byron Songer. I missed it as we were trying to finish up my Onan update before the rain got here. The guys did an excellent job putting this one together. there will be some excellent presentations put on the Eastern States website next week.
> Dan
> --
> Dan & Teri Gregg
>
> danandteri.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> ///Halon Automatic Fire Extinguishers
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>

--
Carleton Douglas
73 custom, by myself
Prescott, AZ
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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #82061 is a reply to message #82059]

Tue, 27 April 2010 08:11

Don A

Messages: 895
Registered: October 2008
Location: Dallas, TX

Karma: 0

Senior Member

It's interesting.
As Rob so fully analyzed, with the outside filter you don't know if the stuff would be caught in the filter media.
Mr. Mondello's inner mag would tell you if any is getting by. And since his has done this and recommends others do it, he must have caught some. Did he have an outside mag that missed some?

But what is most interesting. Back when these engines were new they didn't even recommend changing the filter with each oil change.

Don Adams Dallas, TX
'76 26' Glenbrook, '90 Sidekick
rebuilt by R Archer, powered by J Bounds, Koba
[IMG]http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6109/G2.jpg[/IMG]

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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #82077 is a reply to message #82061]

Tue, 27 April 2010 09:35

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Dan,

How about changing your oil filter and popping the magnet you got from Joe
Mondello into the filter before you leave for Bean Station. When you get
back remove the filter and pull out the magnet and photograph what it's
caught! You will have done just under 1000 miles.

That way we'll have the facts instead of a bunch of old farts (me included)
spouting opinions when we don't have a bloody clue! ;-)

Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Magnet [message #82078 is a reply to message #82061]

Tue, 27 April 2010 09:36

GMC_LES

Messages: 569
Registered: October 2009
Location: Montreal

Karma: 0

Senior Member

It sure would be interesting to see the results of placing both an external
AND an internal magnet on the same oil filter. Inspection after an oil
change would confirm whether or not the external magnet is doing an
efficient job of trapping ferrous debris. A Filtermag unit has large
powerful magnets that create a magnetic field much larger than any small
internal magnet could produce. This should make the Filtermag unit more
effective so I would expect to see very little if any debris on the internal
magnet during such a test.

I am concerned about the risk of ferrous debris detaching from an internal
magnet. During normal operation without a magnet, a random microscopic
ferrous particle could pass through the engine with negligible effect. Add a
magnet that collects blobs of ferrous goop and you have potential for such a
blob to break loose and contaminate the engine. This would be like passing
lapping compound through the oiling system. As I previously stated though, I
doubt that that would happen, but it is a possibility.

Thanks,
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza II 26ft

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