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[GMCnet] Front wheel spacers [message #81666]

Fri, 23 April 2010 16:41

Kingsley Coach

Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada

Karma: -34

Senior Member

Netters

Has anyone reached a factual conclusion about the front wheel spacers? Do
they affect the front bearings, do they actually improve handling?

Looking for facts from users and the engineering crowd here guys, and if you
could tell me the number of miles you've had them on...25, 50, 100 thousand
miles, I appreciate it.

Thanks
Mike in NS

--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
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Re: [GMCnet] Front wheel spacers [message #81681 is a reply to message #81666]

Fri, 23 April 2010 18:23

Larry

Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI

Karma: 10

Senior Member

Kingsley Coach wrote on Fri, 23 April 2010 16:41

Netters

Has anyone reached a factual conclusion about the front wheel spacers? Do
they affect the front bearings, do they actually improve handling?

Looking for facts from users and the engineering crowd here guys, and if you
could tell me the number of miles you've had them on...25, 50, 100 thousand
miles, I appreciate it.

Thanks
Mike

Mike,
I've had mine for 25K miles. Just took the bearings out to have a look see. No appreciable wear. I put them on for the "look" Didn't like the fronts so far inboard.
JMHO

Larry

Smile

78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.

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Re: [GMCnet] Front wheel spacers [message #81705 is a reply to message #81681]

Fri, 23 April 2010 20:25

Kingsley Coach

Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada

Karma: -34

Senior Member

Larry

Coming from you, I consider that a knowledgeable source.
You did it for the 'look'.....well, you're honest as well...<VBG>

Mike

On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Larry <weidnerl@wwt.net> wrote:

>
>
> Kingsley Coach wrote on Fri, 23 April 2010 16:41
> > Netters
> >
> > Has anyone reached a factual conclusion about the front wheel spacers?
> Do
> > they affect the front bearings, do they actually improve handling?
> >
> > Looking for facts from users and the engineering crowd here guys, and if
> you
> > could tell me the number of miles you've had them on...25, 50, 100
> thousand
> > miles, I appreciate it.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Mike
>
> Mike,
> I've had mine for 25K miles. Just took the bearings out to have a look
> see. No appreciable wear. I put them on for the "look" Didn't like the
> fronts so far inboard.
> JMHO
> --
> Larry :)
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>

--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
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Re: [GMCnet] Front wheel spacers [message #81728 is a reply to message #81666]

Fri, 23 April 2010 22:13

Mr ERFisher

Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005

Karma: 2

Senior Member

there has been no indication of bearing problems

folks who have them love them

but there is this
http://gmcmotorhome.info/front.html#extended

do change the geometry of the front end

gene

>
> Has anyone reached a factual conclusion about the front wheel spacers? Do
> they affect the front bearings, do they actually improve handling?
>
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
�Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
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Re: [GMCnet] Front wheel spacers [message #81732 is a reply to message #81705]

Sat, 24 April 2010 01:15

jimk

Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA

Karma: 9

Senior Member

If you have a worn front end part or parts, do not blame the spacer.
We have sold over 80 pairs and have had over 90% satisfaction .
Several of the people in the Mid West has over 80,000 miles on them.

On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Kingsley Coach <kingsleygmc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Larry
>
> Coming from you, I consider that a knowledgeable source.
> You did it for the 'look'.....well, you're honest as well...<VBG>
>
> Mike
>
> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Larry <weidnerl@wwt.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Kingsley Coach wrote on Fri, 23 April 2010 16:41
>> > Netters
>> >
>> > Has anyone reached a factual conclusion about the front wheel spacers?
>> Do
>> > they affect the front bearings, do they actually improve handling?
>> >
>> > Looking for facts from users and the engineering crowd here guys, and if
>> you
>> > could tell me the number of miles you've had them on...25, 50, 100
>> thousand
>> > miles, I appreciate it.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > Mike
>>
>> Mike,
>> I've had mine for 25K miles. Just took the bearings out to have a look
>> see. No appreciable wear. I put them on for the "look" Didn't like the
>> fronts so far inboard.
>> JMHO
>> --
>> Larry :)
>> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
>> Menomonie, WI.
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Beaton
> 1977 Kingsley 26-11
> 1977 Eleganza II 26-3
> Antigonish, NS
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

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Re: [GMCnet] Front wheel spacers [message #81742 is a reply to message #81666]

Sat, 24 April 2010 07:21

Steven Ferguson

Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Mike,
I've had them on for 6 years now. Zero play, don't know about the
handling as the coach handled excellent before and after installation.
Pure and simple, the widened track looks much better than the OEM
stance.

On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Kingsley Coach <kingsleygmc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Netters
>
> Has anyone reached a factual conclusion about the front wheel spacers? �Do
> they affect the front bearings, do they actually improve handling?
>
> Looking for facts from users and the engineering crowd here guys, and if you
> could tell me the number of miles you've had them on...25, 50, 100 thousand
> miles, I appreciate it.
>
> Thanks
> Mike in NS
>
> --
> Michael Beaton
> 1977 Kingsley 26-11
> 1977 Eleganza II �26-3
> Antigonish, NS
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>

--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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Re: [GMCnet] Front wheel spacers [message #81744 is a reply to message #81666]

Sat, 24 April 2010 07:37

RF_Burns

Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada

Karma: 3

Senior Member

I've often wondered if someone has ever tried making a bracket to fasten to the exising A arm brackets to move them out about 2". Then a spacer made for the axles to fit at the differential flanges. The connecting rods would need to be lenghtened as well.

It all seems doable and would bring the wheels out without changing the bearing loads etc.

I could be missing something though.

Mine had spacers when I got it so I have no experience without spacers.

I do have a great deal of apprehension about the wheel bearings after reading all the issues on here and elsewhere. There is about 5,000 miles on them since the PO had them changed.

Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that

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Re: [GMCnet] Front wheel spacers [message #81750 is a reply to message #81744]

Sat, 24 April 2010 09:25

jimk

Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA

Karma: 9

Senior Member

Bruce,
It is all about cost.
Our Reaction Arm System is an excellent product, but not many are
being soil due to price.
Keeping things as reasonable and simple is what seems to work for us.

On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 5:37 AM, Bruce Hislop <bruce@perthcomm.com> wrote:
>
>
> I've often wondered if someone has ever tried making a bracket to fasten to the exising A arm brackets to move them out about 2". Then a spacer made for the axles to fit at the differential flanges. The connecting rods would need to be lenghtened as well.
>y
> It all seems doable and would bring the wheels out without changing the bearing loads etc.
>
> I could be missing something though.
>
> Mine had spacers when I got it so I have no experience without spacers.
>
> I do have a great deal of apprehension about the wheel bearings after reading all the issues on here and elsewhere. There is about 5,000 miles on them since the PO had them changed.
>
> --
> Bruce Hislop,
> S. Ontario Canada
> 77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI and ESC.
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
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jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

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Re: [GMCnet] Front wheel spacers [message #81751 is a reply to message #81742]

Sat, 24 April 2010 09:32

jimk

Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA

Karma: 9

Senior Member

Steve F does things right so he does not have problems, others that
think they do the front right are putting the blame on an item that
was not the original problem.
People that use the Knuckles with factory hole diameter will have
play. Those with rebuilt ones with proper diameter will comment
positively like Steve.

On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 5:21 AM, Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mike,
> I've had them on for 6 years now. Zero play, don't know about the
> handling as the coach handled excellent before and after installation.
> Pure and simple, the widened track looks much better than the OEM
> stance.
>
> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Kingsley Coach <kingsleygmc@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Netters
>>
>> Has anyone reached a factual conclusion about the front wheel spacers? Do
>> they affect the front bearings, do they actually improve handling?
>>
>> Looking for facts from users and the engineering crowd here guys, and if you
>> could tell me the number of miles you've had them on...25, 50, 100 thousand
>> miles, I appreciate it.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Mike in NS
>>
>> --
>> Michael Beaton
>> 1977 Kingsley 26-11
>> 1977 Eleganza II 26-3
>> Antigonish, NS
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Ferguson
> '76 EII
> Sierra Vista, AZ
> Urethane bushing source
> www.bdub.net/ferguson/
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

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Re: [GMCnet] Front wheel spacers [message #81752 is a reply to message #81744]

Sat, 24 April 2010 09:41

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Bruce,

Great "outside the box thinking!"

I'm planning on heading down to my workshop tomorrow to get some tools I
need here at the house and I'll see if doing something like this is within
my capabilities.

You could also move the upper control arm attachment points towards the back
of the coach to get more caster!

Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Bruce Hislop
Sent: Saturday, 24 April 2010 10:38 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Front wheel spacers

I've often wondered if someone has ever tried making a bracket to fasten to
the exising A arm brackets to move them out about 2". Then a spacer made for
the axles to fit at the differential flanges. The connecting rods would
need to be lenghtened as well.

It all seems doable and would bring the wheels out without changing the
bearing loads etc.

I could be missing something though.

Mine had spacers when I got it so I have no experience without spacers.

I do have a great deal of apprehension about the wheel bearings after
reading all the issues on here and elsewhere. There is about 5,000 miles on
them since the PO had them changed.

--
Bruce Hislop,
S. Ontario Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI and ESC.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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_______________________________________________
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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Front wheel spacers [message #81755 is a reply to message #81666]

Sat, 24 April 2010 11:39

RF_Burns

Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada

Karma: 3

Senior Member

Robert,
I guess on second thought, when it comes down to it, by the time you make the brackets and do all the engineering one might be better spending the $3 grand and get Chuck's front end kit which gives bigger brakes and better wheel bearings.

I'll be working 14hr days for years to come to pay for all this!

Shocked

Shocked

Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that

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Re: [GMCnet] Front wheel spacers [message #81758 is a reply to message #81728]

Sat, 24 April 2010 12:56

jayrabe

Messages: 509
Registered: June 2009
Location: Portland, OR

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Gene wrote:
> they do change the geometry of the front end

Question - exactly how? I'm still a newbie mechanic, and the way the front end works, how all the pieces fit together, is quite a bit beyond me yet, but I know there are the three alignment parameters of caster, camber, and toe-in. Do the spacers affect these values? What other things are changed with the spacers? I've got a set, yet to be installed. I'm determined to go ahead with them, would hope there's an improvement in handling, but these posts lead me to not be too optimistic about that. Still, as others have said, I will go ahead if for no other reason than the improvement in the look.

Thanks

J Rabe
76 PB
Portland, OR

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Re: [GMCnet] Front wheel spacers [message #81776 is a reply to message #81744]

Sat, 24 April 2010 18:39

Matt Colie

Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan

Karma: 7

Senior Member

RF_Burns wrote on Sat, 24 April 2010 08:37

I've often wondered if someone has ever tried making a bracket to fasten to the existing A arm brackets to move them out about 2". Then a spacer made for the axles to fit at the differential flanges. The connecting rods would need to be lengthened as well.

It all seems doable and would bring the wheels out without changing the bearing loads etc.

I could be missing something though.

Mine had spacers when I got it so I have no experience without spacers.

I do have a great deal of apprehension about the wheel bearings after reading all the issues on here and elsewhere. There is about 5,000 miles on them since the PO had them changed.

Bruce,

Yes, unfortunately you are missing something.

Everything associated with the control arms would have to be relocated outboard. This means the anchor for the torsion bars, the length and mounts of the anti-sway bar, The upper shock absorber mount and the list goes on. There is no way such a modification could be effectively packaged.

This does not mean you should not think about it. After all, thinking is the most cost effective tool we have.

Matt

Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: [GMCnet] Front wheel spacers [message #81782 is a reply to message #81776]

Sat, 24 April 2010 20:57

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

G'day,

Just got back from the workshop and while nothings impossible this goes into
the too hard basket.

However, I was looking at some photos of the frame in Chuck Garton's three
fuel tank setup:

http://www.gmcpc.org/archive/3rd_fuel_tank.pdf

and noticed that the front section of the frame bows inwards. Anybody got
any idea as to why GMC didn't widen it so the front and rear tracks would
match?

I realize that GMC wanted to use as many of the Olds Toronado front
suspension / drive parts as possible but I think that the only part would
have required re-design was the drive axles.

Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Front wheel spacers [message #81796 is a reply to message #81744]

Sat, 24 April 2010 23:39

Adrien G.

Messages: 474
Registered: May 2008
Location: Burns Flat, OK 73624

Karma: 1

Senior Member

Bruce,
I've sketched the adapter unit to move the control arms out to widen the track to the rear dimensions.

The adapter would be a one piece bolt on unit on each side. Kind like the 4wd lift kit idea.
The drive shaft spacer would be no problem. Lengthening the short steering links, might cause steering problems, because the length of the link needs to be the same as the lower control arm. The difference may not be felt.

The torsion bars cross mount may work as is, the bit of a bind angle that would be added may still work. If not it can be modified.

Once the welding fixtures are made, the rest is a piece of cake.

Adrien & Jenny Genesoto 75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6

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Re: [GMCnet] Front wheel spacers [message #81818 is a reply to message #81666]

Sun, 25 April 2010 09:33

RF_Burns

Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada

Karma: 3

Senior Member

Adrien,
Good point on the steering links, never thought about them being the same length as the control arms.

Now it really sounds like Bill Hubler's front end is the way to go. Well maybe someday if the bank account ever recovers!

I'll just be happy with the spacers the way they are now.

Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that

[Updated on: Sun, 25 April 2010 10:23]

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