Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Q. for Gary Zingle
| Q. for Gary Zingle [message #79550] |
Wed, 07 April 2010 10:27  |
g.winger
Messages: 792
Registered: February 2008
Location: Warrenton,Missouri
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Gary, was wondering if you could post pics of your intake/filter/throttle body topper system?? Why did you make it that way??? What would you do diffrent?? Did you make one before this one you didn,t like or didn,t work??? thanks,,,PL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Q. for Gary Zingle [message #79561 is a reply to message #79550] |
Wed, 07 April 2010 11:41  |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
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Gary,
I'm interested too. I'm using the '76 Cad air cleaner on my throttle body,
but I'd really like to do something else. I've got a Jeep snorkle but don't
especially like it -- and I can't find 3-1/2" hose to fit it. I'm
considering designing a snorkel to my liking and having it welded up from
aluminum stock. But I need ideas.
Ken H.
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Paul Leavitt <leavittpaul@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Gary, was wondering if you could post pics of your intake/filter/throttle
> body topper system?? Why did you make it that way??? What would you do
> diffrent?? Did you make one before this one you didn,t like or didn,t
> work??? thanks,,,PL
> _______________________________________________
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Q. for Gary Zingle [message #79589 is a reply to message #79561] |
Wed, 07 April 2010 16:00 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Paul / Ken,
Here's some pictures of the Caddy air horn I got from Steve F.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=26097
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=26064
It came off a 4.5 liter Caddy DeVille circa 1988.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=25800
I found some pictures of one on a 1992 DeVille also.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=25796
It fits the Q-Jet and I would assume I would fit a throttle body.
IIRC it is a "taller" than the Jeep air horn which was part of the remote
air filter setup I removed from the Q-Jet on Double Trouble and I think you
wouldn't need a spacer between it and the throttle body.
If you want me too I will measure it and post the size inlet hose it
requires.
HTH!
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Thursday, 8 April 2010 2:41 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Q. for Gary Zingle
Gary,
I'm interested too. I'm using the '76 Cad air cleaner on my throttle body,
but I'd really like to do something else. I've got a Jeep snorkle but don't
especially like it -- and I can't find 3-1/2" hose to fit it. I'm
considering designing a snorkel to my liking and having it welded up from
aluminum stock. But I need ideas.
Ken H.
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Paul Leavitt <leavittpaul@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Gary, was wondering if you could post pics of your intake/filter/throttle
> body topper system?? Why did you make it that way??? What would you do
> diffrent?? Did you make one before this one you didn,t like or didn,t
> work??? thanks,,,PL
> _______________________________________________
>
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Q. for Gary Zingle [message #79601 is a reply to message #79596] |
Wed, 07 April 2010 17:07 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Dan,
Hmmm, interesting!
IIRC you have a Holley FI (two barrel) system on your coach and the picture
I posted shows the Caddy air horn fit on the Holley Commander 950 FI (four
barrel) on The Blue Streak.
IIRC Ken has a Howell system.
If anybody is interested I will measure the diameter of where it sits on the
throttle body / carb along with the hose size.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Gregg
Sent: Thursday, 8 April 2010 7:29 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Q. for Gary Zingle
Rob, I am not sure about your statement "fitting both". Mine will not fit a
carb.
Dan
--
Dan & Teri Gregg
danandteri.blogspot.com
///Halon Automatic Fire Extinguishers
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Q. for Gary Zingle [message #79618 is a reply to message #79607] |
Wed, 07 April 2010 18:56 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Ken,
The problem I have with using the DeVille filter box is the size of the air
filter. It was sized for the air flow through a 4.5 liter engine vs a Olds
455 (7.5 liter) or Caddy 500 (8.1 liter).
I measured the area of the DeVille filter and the round OEM 455 filter on
The Blue Streak and noted that the OEM filter area was larger. Unfortunately
I can't seem to find the numbers.
However, this is not the whole story! To determine if the DeVille filter
would be OK one would have to compare the volume of air that is moving
through both filters.
I think one should calculate the volume of air moving through the 4.5 Caddy,
the 455 Olds, and 500 Caddy engines at normal highway cruise speed, say 60
mph, and see how they compare.
Is my logic correct or am I all wet!?
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Thursday, 8 April 2010 8:42 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Q. for Gary Zingle
Rob,
I've got the '95 Grand Cherokee air horn and filter box, and a '92 DeVille
filter box. Even when modified by removing the internal brace and adapting
the flange to allow it to fit the Holley TB w/o a riser, the Cherokee
snorkle doesn't really strike my fancy. I'm trying to keep the profile just
as low as possible -- I think I can get by with a reinforced diamond plate
aluminum engine hatch resting on the top of the original floor -- IF I can
get the air inlet profile low enough. That would prevent having to raise
the entire cockpit floor to have level cockpit floor.
I expect to use the '92 DeVill filter box; since I haven't seen the
associated air horn, I'll have to check your measurements against the coach
and perhaps hunt one up.
Ken H.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Q. for Gary Zingle [message #79619 is a reply to message #79618] |
Wed, 07 April 2010 19:02 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
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Rob,
That's definitely a concern. Problem is, while we could easily calculate
the amount of air each engine would pump under typical conditions, we'd
still need to know something about the flow characteristics of the different
available filters (including area) and about the impact of those
characteristics. May Applied Air Filters would have some answers? :-)
Ken H.
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Ken,
>
> The problem I have with using the DeVille filter box is the size of the air
> filter. It was sized for the air flow through a 4.5 liter engine vs a Olds
> 455 (7.5 liter) or Caddy 500 (8.1 liter).
>
> I measured the area of the DeVille filter and the round OEM 455 filter on
> The Blue Streak and noted that the OEM filter area was larger.
> Unfortunately
> I can't seem to find the numbers.
>
> However, this is not the whole story! To determine if the DeVille filter
> would be OK one would have to compare the volume of air that is moving
> through both filters.
>
> I think one should calculate the volume of air moving through the 4.5
> Caddy,
> the 455 Olds, and 500 Caddy engines at normal highway cruise speed, say 60
> mph, and see how they compare.
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Q. for Gary Zingle [message #79623 is a reply to message #79619] |
Wed, 07 April 2010 19:34 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Absolutely!
Calculating the flow through all the engines would only be a start. The
pressure drop through the filters and resultant air flow restriction would
have to be compared.
Probably the easiest way to determine how they worked would be to run both
filters on an engine on a dyno and compare the results. Easier said than
done!
It might be possible to do that at a reasonable cost if one could find a
chassis dyno that the GMC could be run on.
The mechanic mate of mine here in Sydney has a chassis dyno that is big
enough for the GMC and will handle up to 1000 HP. It has an exhaust gas
analyzer and I was going to tune Holley Commander EFI that's in The Blue
Streak on it but he repositioned it so I can't pull the GMC on it any more.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Thursday, 8 April 2010 10:02 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Q. for Gary Zingle
Rob,
That's definitely a concern. Problem is, while we could easily calculate
the amount of air each engine would pump under typical conditions, we'd
still need to know something about the flow characteristics of the different
available filters (including area) and about the impact of those
characteristics. May Applied Air Filters would have some answers? :-)
Ken H.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Q. for Gary Zingle [message #79630 is a reply to message #79623] |
Wed, 07 April 2010 19:55 |
GMC_LES
Messages: 569
Registered: October 2009
Location: Montreal
Karma: 0
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I may be wrong, but I seem to recall noticing that the Cadillac Seville air
horn I looked at had an integral air resonance chamber. The way it was
designed, that chamber might impede the air flow when used on a 455 or 500.
The air horn I examined had the resonance chamber designed similar to a
snail shell. The chamber was located along the inner wall of the air horn,
using a good portion of the available internal air passage.
Rob, maybe you should show a few photos of the inner passages of your horn.
Thanks,
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza II 26ft
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Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
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| Re: [GMCnet] Q. for Gary Zingle [message #79631 is a reply to message #79567] |
Wed, 07 April 2010 20:07 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Pretty engine but does it go?
After seeing pictures of Steve Ferguson's engines, I am convinced they are show pieces that never go down the road. This picture appears to be another one of those. Real engines have dirt, rust, and oil over them.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Q. for Gary Zingle [message #79691 is a reply to message #79561] |
Thu, 08 April 2010 07:31 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
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Ken,
That flexible hose garages use to vent exhaust to the outside in
winter fits perfectly. I have a short length of 3" alum exhaust
tubing midway between the eng and front mounted air filter that is
drilled and tapped for a bung to supply fresh, filtered air to the
D-side valve cover. Expensive, but it is forever.
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 9:41 AM, Ken Henderson <ken0henderson@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gary,
>
> I'm interested too. I'm using the '76 Cad air cleaner on my throttle body,
> but I'd really like to do something else. I've got a Jeep snorkle but don't
> especially like it -- and I can't find 3-1/2" hose to fit it. I'm
> considering designing a snorkel to my liking and having it welded up from
> aluminum stock. But I need ideas.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Paul Leavitt <leavittpaul@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Gary, was wondering if you could post pics of your intake/filter/throttle
>> body topper system?? Why did you make it that way??? What would you do
>> diffrent?? Did you make one before this one you didn,t like or didn,t
>> work??? thanks,,,PL
>> _______________________________________________
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Q. for Gary Zingle [message #79809 is a reply to message #79691] |
Thu, 08 April 2010 20:43 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Steve,
My snorkel has a 3-1/2" inlet size. I've got lifetime 4" hose already, and
can get 3" lifetime "planter hose" from the local John Deere dealer. But no
3-1/2" anywhere. :-(
From my experience collapsing a 3" corrugated rubber auto inlet hose at high
throttle settings with the 455, I'm thinking 3-1/2" is the minimum I'll need
for the 500.
Ken H.
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com>wrote:
> Ken,
> That flexible hose garages use to vent exhaust to the outside in
> winter fits perfectly. I have a short length of 3" alum exhaust
> tubing midway between the eng and front mounted air filter that is
> drilled and tapped for a bung to supply fresh, filtered air to the
> D-side valve cover. Expensive, but it is forever.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Q. for Gary Zingle [message #79814 is a reply to message #79631] |
Thu, 08 April 2010 21:11 |
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WD0AFQ
Messages: 7111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Dexter, Mo.
Karma: 207
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| Ken Burton wrote on Wed, 07 April 2010 20:07 |
Pretty engine but does it go?
After seeing pictures of Steve Ferguson's engines, I am convinced they are show pieces that never go down the road. This picture appears to be another one of those. Real engines have dirt, rust, and oil over them.
|
Ha ha. Ken, you know that is the engine I blew up in Arizona.
Dan
3 In Stainless Exhaust Headers
One Ton All Discs/Reaction Arm
355 FD/Quad Bag/Alum Radiator Manny Tran/New eng.
Holley EFI/10 Tire Air Monitoring System
Solarized Coach/Upgraded Windows
Satelite TV/On Demand Hot Water/3Way Refer
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