Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Wheel balancing Beads
| Wheel balancing Beads [message #78478] |
Mon, 29 March 2010 19:33  |
Gil Slaw
Messages: 69
Registered: May 2006
Location: Hampshire, IL
Karma: 0
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Hey gang.
The pot needs to be stirred up a bit today/ So
Send me your hate mail but::::
Has anyone EVER seen a certified wheel balance machine that was satisfied with a bead balanced tire??
Gil Slaw
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel balancing Beads [message #78506 is a reply to message #78478] |
Mon, 29 March 2010 20:52  |
bhayes
Messages: 263
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 1
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Here's my anecdote:
My parents have a 36' class A motor home on a Ford chassis that had a
problem with shaking at about 60-65 mph. The tire shop they took it to
wanted to put beads in all of the tires, but it was expensive and they made
no guarantees that it would work. The shop ended up putting beads in the
front tires (where they thought the shaking was coming from), balanced the
rears on a wheel balancer, and did a front-end alignment. The motor home
still shook. They eventually replaced all of the tires and that seems to
have solved the problem.
Maybe the tire shop didn't put the correct amount of beads in, maybe the
didn't balance the rear tires correctly, or maybe the beads just didn't
work. Your mileage may vary...
Bryan
No GMC yet
Salt Lake City, UT
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 6:33 PM, Gil Slaw <gslaw700@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hey gang.
>
> The pot needs to be stirred up a bit today/ So
>
> Send me your hate mail but::::
>
> Has anyone EVER seen a certified wheel balance machine that was satisfied
> with a bead balanced tire??
>
>
> Gil Slaw
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
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Bryan Hayes
'76 Eleganza II
Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel balancing Beads [message #78516 is a reply to message #78506] |
Mon, 29 March 2010 21:24 |
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It could be that one tire was so out-of-round that no amount of balancing
would have compensated. Roundness isn't something that gets checked much. It
is, however, a problem when it is extreme.
Round, within a decent spec, and balanced works. If you have only one, you
still have a problem.
Byron Songer
1978 Royale by Coachmen
Louisville, KY
Personal - http://web.me.com/bnsonger
Eastern States - http://www.gmceast.com
Bryan Hayes wrote:
> Here's my anecdote:
>
> My parents have a 36' class A motor home on a Ford chassis that had a
> problem with shaking at about 60-65 mph. The tire shop they took it to
> wanted to put beads in all of the tires, but it was expensive and they made
> no guarantees that it would work. The shop ended up putting beads in the
> front tires (where they thought the shaking was coming from), balanced the
> rears on a wheel balancer, and did a front-end alignment. The motor home
> still shook. They eventually replaced all of the tires and that seems to
> have solved the problem.
>
> Maybe the tire shop didn't put the correct amount of beads in, maybe the
> didn't balance the rear tires correctly, or maybe the beads just didn't
> work. Your mileage may vary...
>
> Bryan
> No GMC yet
> Salt Lake City, UT
>
> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 6:33 PM, Gil Slaw <gslaw700@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hey gang.
>>
>> The pot needs to be stirred up a bit today/ So
>>
>> Send me your hate mail but::::
>>
>> Has anyone EVER seen a certified wheel balance machine that was satisfied
>> with a bead balanced tire??
>>
>>
>> Gil Slaw
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel balancing Beads [message #78532 is a reply to message #78531] |
Mon, 29 March 2010 23:43 |
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Did Ken use filtering valves on Double Trouble? The Equal website seems to
imply such would be necessary.
Byron Songer
1978 Royale by Coachmen
Louisville, KY
Personal - http://web.me.com/bnsonger
Eastern States - http://www.gmceast.com
Rob Mueller wrote:
> Gil,
>
> Yes.
>
> When Ken Frey mounted the new Kuhmo Road Venture AT KL78 on Double Trouble
> he followed the following procedure:
>
> 1) Remove old tires from Alcoa rims.
> 2) Fit new tires to Alcoa rims.
> 3) Spin balance tires on Hunter Road Force tire balancing machine.
> 4) If imbalance was less than 4 ounces or less break bead and pour in 4
> ounces of Equal.
> 5) Spin balance tires again to verify that they were in balance.
>
> If imbalance was more than 4 ounces break both beads and rotate tire around
> rim until it was.
>
> Out of the six tires only one had to be removed and rotated.
>
> Was the machine "certified" I have no idea; I can attest to the fact that I
> have put 8000 miles on those tires subsequent to Ken's procedure and they
> ride smooth.
>
> Regards,
> Rob Mueller
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Gil Slaw
> Sent: Tuesday, 30 March 2010 11:34 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] Wheel balancing Beads
>
> Hey gang.
>
> The pot needs to be stirred up a bit today/ So
>
> Send me your hate mail but::::
>
> Has anyone EVER seen a certified wheel balance machine that was satisfied
> with a bead balanced tire??
>
> Gil Slaw
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel balancing Beads [message #78538 is a reply to message #78532] |
Tue, 30 March 2010 00:25 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Byron Songer wrote on Mon, 29 March 2010 23:43 |
Did Ken use filtering valves on Double Trouble? The Equal website seems to
imply such would be necessary.
Byron Songer
1978 Royale by Coachmen
Louisville, KY
Personal - http://web.me.com/bnsonger
Eastern States - http://www.gmceast.com
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I use Equal and filtered valve cores. Equal recommends them. The cores only cost a $1.00 or so each.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel balancing Beads [message #78557 is a reply to message #78546] |
Tue, 30 March 2010 08:24 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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When I put Counteract into the first set of tires, I used a squeeze bottle
with a tube attached so I could "pump" the beads in. The replacement set
received the bags during mounting. I've never used the filtered valve cores
but I always make sure I have compressed air available before checking
pressure; if a valve leaks, a burst of compressed air cleans its seat.
I was surprised when I had a puncture and went to Discount Tire to have it
repaired. I expected a hassle with them because of the beads mess. Not at
all: The technician just elevated the puncture area, brushed the beads to
the lower area, and applied the patch; no sweat or bother to him -- and he
had no problem with beads lodging between the tire and rim.
Ken H.
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:11 AM, Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com>wrote:
> Rob,
> I was able to use the lower half of a ball point pen to pour the
> Counteract beads into my tires. Just remove the valve stem. I did it
> on the coach and left the balancing weights in place. No problems but
> occasionally, they do mess up the valve stem so I only added air when
> the valve stem was "up". The stuff is a bit of a PITA when changine
> tires though. Gets everywhere.
> ...
>
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| Re: Wheel balancing Beads [message #78592 is a reply to message #78478] |
Tue, 30 March 2010 12:44 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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I have a lttle story. Last month while in Blythe a Canadian Friend had a problem with a valve stem on his inside dual in his SOB. We pulled the tire and took it to a tire shop to get the valve replaced. Reinstalled the tire on the coach a few days later it was flat. Took it to another tire shop and they found there was some kind of sand between the bead and rim with a broken plastic bag and dabree in the tire. They had to wash out the tire to re seat it on the rim. If you ever get a flat make sure all that stuff is removed from the tire before it is remounted or the bead is clean.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel balancing Beads [message #78599 is a reply to message #78557] |
Tue, 30 March 2010 13:19 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| GMCWiperMan wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 08:24 |
When I put Counteract into the first set of tires, I used a squeeze bottle
with a tube attached so I could "pump" the beads in. The replacement set
received the bags during mounting. I've never used the filtered valve cores
but I always make sure I have compressed air available before checking
pressure; if a valve leaks, a burst of compressed air cleans its seat.
I was surprised when I had a puncture and went to Discount Tire to have it
repaired. I expected a hassle with them because of the beads mess. Not at
all: The technician just elevated the puncture area, brushed the beads to
the lower area, and applied the patch; no sweat or bother to him -- and he
had no problem with beads lodging between the tire and rim.
Ken H.
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I had a similar experience with Equal and Wally World. I had a nail stuck in a center tire on my GMC. They pulled the tire off of the coach (under my direction), demounted it, moved the nail hole to a position rotated slightly off of the bottom. They cleaned the area, patched the hole, cleaned the wheel and bead sealing area. Then remounted the tire and put the wheel on the coach. Price $10.00. The tire is still holding air a year later.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Wheel balancing Beads [message #78626 is a reply to message #78592] |
Tue, 30 March 2010 17:58 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| roy1 wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 12:44 |
I have a lttle story. Last month while in Blythe a Canadian Friend had a problem with a valve stem on his inside dual in his SOB. We pulled the tire and took it to a tire shop to get the valve replaced. Reinstalled the tire on the coach a few days later it was flat. Took it to another tire shop and they found there was some kind of sand between the bead and rim with a broken plastic bag and dabree in the tire. They had to wash out the tire to re seat it on the rim. If you ever get a flat make sure all that stuff is removed from the tire before it is remounted or the bead is clean.
Roy
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i just posted on one of the other threads that i've read that you can use water to do the balancing. if true that would be the easiest way to do it.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: Wheel balancing Beads [message #78651 is a reply to message #78478] |
Tue, 30 March 2010 22:10 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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well, i didn't say it was a good idea just that it would work. i think it was on a web site that explained the principal but why would it alter pressure?
would another liquid work better? i like the idea as it can be put in through the valve stem, won't clog and doesn't make a mess.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel balancing Beads [message #78654 is a reply to message #78651] |
Tue, 30 March 2010 22:20 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Fred,
I can't think of a reason why a liquid wouldn't work as well as beads. But
the liquid should be one with a higher boiling point than water to reduce
the pressure variation. Antifreeze might be suitable. I don't know what,
but I suspect there's some reason no one, AFAIK, is offering a liquid
commercially.
Ken H.
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 11:10 PM, fred veenschoten <fredntoni@cox.net>wrote:
>
>
> well, i didn't say it was a good idea just that it would work. i think it
> was on a web site that explained the principal but why would it alter
> pressure?
>
> would another liquid work better? i like the idea as it can be put in
> through the valve stem, won't clog and doesn't make a mess.
>
>
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| Re: Wheel balancing Beads [message #78659 is a reply to message #78478] |
Tue, 30 March 2010 23:14 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| Gil Slaw wrote on Mon, 29 March 2010 17:33 |
... Has anyone EVER seen a certified wheel balance machine that was satisfied with a bead balanced tire??
|
From the Counteract web site:
| Quote: |
- Can you balance a tire with Counteract on a tire balancer?
No. The Counteract Balancing Beads will only move to the balanced position through inertia which is generated by the out of balance condition and the up and down motion of the vehicle suspension while counteracting the out of balance condition.
|
<http://www.counteractbalancing.com/faq.htm>
Another thing is that some commercial tire balancing bead products have been treaded to stick to the tire so they stay where they are needed to balance the tire. (Counteract is one.) The claim is: "These other products are free flowing internal balancing products, that means that they fall to the bottom at every stop and some turns and have to go through the inertia (vibration) balancing process again after every stop. Counteract Balancing Beads utilize an additional scientific principle that helps stabilize the product in the balanced position."
From what I can tell from my reading, the amount of time it takes for a "free flowing" product to balance is very short. So how much is this stabilizer worth?
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel balancing Beads [message #78662 is a reply to message #78659] |
Tue, 30 March 2010 23:23 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Mike,
Hmmmm!
This is interesting because Equal worked when Ken Frey spun mine. Every
wheel came in at 0.00 grams out of balance except one!
His machine was a Hunter Road Force tire balancing machine; maybe that made
the difference.
For those of you that don't know what a Hunter Road Force tire balancing
machine is:
http://www.hunter.com/pub/product/balancer/4159T/index.htm
I'm pretty sure I was sober THAT day! ;-)
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller
Sent: Wednesday, 31 March 2010 3:15 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Wheel balancing Beads
From the Counteract web site:
Quote:
> - Can you balance a tire with Counteract on a tire balancer?
> No. The Counteract Balancing Beads will only move to the balanced position
through inertia which is generated by the out of balance condition and the
up and down motion of the vehicle suspension while counteracting the out of
balance condition.
<http://www.counteractbalancing.com/faq.htm>
Another thing is that some commercial tire balancing bead products have been
treaded to stick to the tire so they stay where they are needed to balance
the tire. (Counteract is one.) The claim is: "These other products are
free flowing internal balancing products, that means that they fall to the
bottom at every stop and some turns and have to go through the inertia
(vibration) balancing process again after every stop. Counteract Balancing
Beads utilize an additional scientific principle that helps stabilize the
product in the balanced position."
From what I can tell from my reading, the amount of time it takes for a
"free flowing" product to balance is very short. So how much is this
stabilizer worth?
--
Mike Miller
`73 26' X Painted D.
`78 23' Birchaven
Hillsboro, OR
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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