| [GMCnet] Cad 500 Progress [message #75323] |
Mon, 01 March 2010 20:34  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Does anyone have experience with serpentine belt designs? Specifically, the
use of the belts without automatic tensioners?
I ask because John Nicholls and I today completed design, fabrication, and
installation of the CS130D alternator and the Seltec A/C compressor on one
serpentine belt, and the water and PS pumps on another serpentine belt. We
couldn't figure out a reasonable place to include a tensioner for either
belt; they are manually adjustable by moving the alternator and the PS pump,
respectively. Is that likely to be a satisfactory solution, or will I have
trouble keeping them adjusted correctly? What is correctly? I know from
experience when a V-belt's tension is close to correct, but I have no real
feel how to adjust a serpentine belt with no automatic tensioner.
We'd hoped to install the Cad500 tomorrow afternoon, but the forecast is for
a maximum of 47*F with 100% chance of rain all day. That may slow us down a
little, but at least we're close.
Texas or Bust!
Ken H.
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 Progress [message #75328 is a reply to message #75323] |
Mon, 01 March 2010 20:55  |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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The experience I have is with the Cherokee XJs. They have a single serpentine multirib and tensioner that is not spring loaded. Its manual with a jack screw type deal to set the tension. You loosen the pulley bolt (odd --it the same one that is the center of the pulley) and adjust the tension and then retighten the pulley. I would say its been about a once a year adjustment when the AC (biggest demand) starts to squeal in the morning. That's all I know.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 Progress [message #75401 is a reply to message #75323] |
Tue, 02 March 2010 13:52 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Hmmm interesting. I did not see that noted in the PDF of the Chrysler service manual. Still one of my favorite utilitarian vehicles of all time. Approaches the closest thing to 'free' driving based on what you can pick them up for and other then fluids, filters and wear items, how little they cost to keep going. And it's comfortable and I can see out of it and the windshield pillar isn't right on my forehead. And with the tow package darn quick off the line. And the AC works really well and the steering is accurate and calm and the FT/PT 4WD lever put you in control instead of a computer controling it and..........
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 Progress [message #75403 is a reply to message #75323] |
Tue, 02 March 2010 13:49 |
Wayne Newland
Messages: 75
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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Leigh Harrison has a lot of experience with serp belts.
Wayne Newland F9300 75 Palm Beach Sebastian, Fl
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:35 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: [GMCnet] Cad 500 Progress
Does anyone have experience with serpentine belt designs? Specifically, the
use of the belts without automatic tensioners?
I ask because John Nicholls and I today completed design, fabrication, and
installation of the CS130D alternator and the Seltec A/C compressor on one
serpentine belt, and the water and PS pumps on another serpentine belt. We
couldn't figure out a reasonable place to include a tensioner for either
belt; they are manually adjustable by moving the alternator and the PS pump,
respectively. Is that likely to be a satisfactory solution, or will I have
trouble keeping them adjusted correctly? What is correctly? I know from
experience when a V-belt's tension is close to correct, but I have no real
feel how to adjust a serpentine belt with no automatic tensioner.
We'd hoped to install the Cad500 tomorrow afternoon, but the forecast is for
a maximum of 47*F with 100% chance of rain all day. That may slow us down a
little, but at least we're close.
Texas or Bust!
Ken H.
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http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 Progress [message #75417 is a reply to message #75323] |
Tue, 02 March 2010 14:56 |
dmumert
Messages: 46
Registered: December 2006
Location: Canada
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Hi Ken
If you check the March Performance site
http://www.marchperf.com/olds_ultra.html
You can see the turnbuckle below the alternator that he uses to tension the
belt.
I have also seen some GM products at the 'mall' that use a serpentine type
belt for some of the accessories an V belts for the rest. The multi-rib
belt did not have a spring loaded tensioner.
Have fun with all this stuff. I take it you never found a reverse rotation
Caddy pump.
Dave Mumert
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-
> bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:35 PM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: [GMCnet] Cad 500 Progress
>
> Does anyone have experience with serpentine belt designs? Specifically,
the use
> of the belts without automatic tensioners?
>
> I ask because John Nicholls and I today completed design, fabrication, and
> installation of the CS130D alternator and the Seltec A/C compressor on one
> serpentine belt, and the water and PS pumps on another serpentine belt.
We
> couldn't figure out a reasonable place to include a tensioner for either
belt; they
> are manually adjustable by moving the alternator and the PS pump,
respectively.
> Is that likely to be a satisfactory solution, or will I have trouble
keeping them
> adjusted correctly? What is correctly? I know from experience when a
V-belt's
> tension is close to correct, but I have no real feel how to adjust a
serpentine belt
> with no automatic tensioner.
>
> We'd hoped to install the Cad500 tomorrow afternoon, but the forecast is
for a
> maximum of 47*F with 100% chance of rain all day. That may slow us down a
> little, but at least we're close.
>
> Texas or Bust!
>
> Ken H.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Dave Mumert
Olds, AB
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 Progress - Serpentine Belts [message #75432 is a reply to message #75323] |
Tue, 02 March 2010 17:31 |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Dave writes:
>I have also seen some GM products at the 'mall' that use a serpentine type
>belt for some of the accessories an V belts for the rest.
Had not thought of it till I saw Dave's note but V6 Fiero's use a serpentine belt for crank, water pump and alternator, and a V-belt for the crank to A/C compressor. And, I've owned one or another Fiero for 25 years. They don't have an automatic adjuster on the serpentine belt. It adjusts with a slotted bracket at the alternator just as a v-belt would. I have a smaller diameter "Power Pulley" on the crank, which reduces the belt wrap, so it's a little sensitive to being kept tight, but still probably only needs it once every year or two. Ideally you should have a belt tension gauge (which I don't) as the wider serpentine belt will have more tension on it at the same deflection as a v-belt. If it's a longish belt I'd probably want 1/2 of deflection in there unless something is squealing. But, I've never had any water pump or alternator bearing issues keeping them about as tight as I can get it with a pry bar.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 Progress [message #75470 is a reply to message #75417] |
Tue, 02 March 2010 22:24 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Thanks to all for the serpentine inputs. I have a lot more confidence in
the setup now. The PS pump has OEM adjustment capability so that takes care
of the rear belt. I made a conventional slotted adjustment arm for the
CS130D alternator so I can adjust the forward belt. Hopefully neither will
need frequent adjustment.
No, Dave, I didn't find a reverse flow pump for the Cad; nor did I much
expect to so didn't search hard. One thing I've been surprised by on the
Cad is the diminutive size of cooling system components vs the Olds. I
certainly wouldn't consider running the Cad pump backward, as I successfully
did the Olds, because it appears to have about 1/2 the flow capacity. It's
no wonder the Cad is known to run hotter than Olds.
We did not raise the engine today. It was rainy and cold but we worked
anyway correcting a stupid error I made -- and may confesss later. We only
managed to get all the new brackets and miscellaneous parts painted and
baked. Also located #1 TDC and marked the new crank pulley -- and came up
with a new question, for a new thread.
Ken H.
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Dave Mumert <dave@mumert.com> wrote:
> Hi Ken
>
> If you check the March Performance site
> http://www.marchperf.com/olds_ultra.html
> You can see the turnbuckle below the alternator that he uses to tension
> the
> belt.
>
> I have also seen some GM products at the 'mall' that use a serpentine type
> belt for some of the accessories an V belts for the rest. The multi-rib
> belt did not have a spring loaded tensioner.
>
> Have fun with all this stuff. I take it you never found a reverse rotation
> Caddy pump.
>
>
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