Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Blackstone Labs Test Results
| Blackstone Labs Test Results [message #75031] |
Fri, 26 February 2010 17:54  |
 |
ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I just got my test results back from Blackstone Labs and they are kind of scary. Eric, from Blackstone, was not aware of the GMC Motorhome group, but promised that he would check with others to find how to add my data to the group database.
This is my first test since bringing her home from Ohio last October. I have no idea how old the oil was before getting to Tom Hampton's place in Ohio, but the oil was changed at his place (Mobil 1). On the road back I added other synthetics as needed. Now I carry Mobile 1 with me in the 5 quart jug.
I'll pull another sample when I change the oil after I get 2,500 miles on this oil and hope for good news. During the time this oil was in the motorhome I had trouble with an electric fuel pump that caused the carb to run very rich, so that may have added unwanted bits to the oil.
Thinking of Dan's recent unpleasantness I have about 700 miles on the oil change and the oil is still very clean looking.
Eric promised that he would send me additional information once he finds out about our GMC Motorhome database.
You can see the PDF of the results here:
<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=32539&title=blackstone-lab-27s-test-results&cat=15>
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
|
|
|
|
| Re: Blackstone Labs Test Results [message #75033 is a reply to message #75031] |
Fri, 26 February 2010 18:27  |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Don't forget about the hidden quart in the front of the pan that fouls the new oil as soon as you put it in. It takes a couple of changes to get things clean in there if it was really bad. Some things are best left unknown, like how sausage is made, what goes on at the World Bank and what's in your oil. Could the high Zinc be from a ZDDP additive?
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs Test Results [message #75037 is a reply to message #75034] |
Fri, 26 February 2010 18:42 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
G'day,
IIRC someone did some testing and the actual amount of oil in the front pan
is more like 4 oz.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry Davick
Sent: Saturday, 27 February 2010 11:30 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs Test Results
I used Mobil 1 15w-50 that is supposed to be high in zinc. I hadn't
considered that pesky quart, though I did park on a fair incline when I
changed the oil.
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
----- Original Message -----
From: "John R. Lebetski" <gransport@aol.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 4:27:32 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs Test Results
Don't forget about the hidden quart in the front of the pan that fouls the
new oil as soon as you put it in. It takes a couple of changes to get things
clean in there if it was really bad. Some things are best left unknown, like
how sausage is made, what goes on at the World Bank and what's in your oil.
Could the high Zinc be from a ZDDP additive?
--
John Lebetski
Chicago, IL
77 Eleganza II
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs Test Results [message #75051 is a reply to message #75037] |
Sat, 27 February 2010 01:19 |
Chuck Garton
Messages: 54
Registered: June 2006
Karma: 0
|
Member |
|
|
With a GMC MH Oil Pan setting level on my work bench, the front sump
held 20 ounces of oil.
Also, the deepest part of the froward sump is directly under a main bearing cap.
Keep in mind, with the oil pan attached to an engine, there may be a
pair of rod caps in that space.
Chuck Garton
77 Kingsley 455
Ridgecrest, CA
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> G'day,
>
> IIRC someone did some testing and the actual amount of oil in the front pan
> is more like 4 oz.
>
> Regards,
> Rob Mueller
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry Davick
> Sent: Saturday, 27 February 2010 11:30 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs Test Results
>
> I used Mobil 1 15w-50 that is supposed to be high in zinc. I hadn't
> considered that pesky quart, though I did park on a fair incline when I
> changed the oil.
>
> Larry Davick
> The Mystery Machine
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John R. Lebetski" <gransport@aol.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 4:27:32 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs Test Results
>
> Don't forget about the hidden quart in the front of the pan that fouls the
> new oil as soon as you put it in. It takes a couple of changes to get things
> clean in there if it was really bad. Some things are best left unknown, like
> how sausage is made, what goes on at the World Bank and what's in your oil.
> Could the high Zinc be from a ZDDP additive?
> --
> John Lebetski
> Chicago, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs Test Results [message #75058 is a reply to message #75031] |
Sat, 27 February 2010 07:03 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
The fuel contamination in your oil looks to be below average Larry.
You could be seeing start up wear, especially after the long time is
sat. Next sample should be a good indicator.
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:54 PM, Larry Davick <ljdavick@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> I just got my test results back from Blackstone Labs and they are kind of scary. Eric, from Blackstone, was not aware of the GMC Motorhome group, but promised that he would check with others to find how to add my data to the group database.
>
> This is my first test since bringing her home from Ohio last October. I have no idea how old the oil was before getting to Tom Hampton's place in Ohio, but the oil was changed at his place (Mobil 1). On the road back I added other synthetics as needed. Now I carry Mobile 1 with me in the 5 quart jug.
>
> I'll pull another sample when I change the oil after I get 2,500 miles on this oil and hope for good news. During the time this oil was in the motorhome I had trouble with an electric fuel pump that caused the carb to run very rich, so that may have added unwanted bits to the oil.
>
> Thinking of Dan's recent unpleasantness I have about 700 miles on the oil change and the oil is still very clean looking.
>
> Eric promised that he would send me additional information once he finds out about our GMC Motorhome database.
>
> You can see the PDF of the results here:
> <http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=32539&title=blackstone-lab-27s-test-results&cat=15>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=32539&title=blackstone-lab-27s-test-results&cat=15
> --
> Larry Davick
> The Mystery Machine
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Blackstone Labs Test Results [message #75070 is a reply to message #75031] |
Sat, 27 February 2010 09:48 |
Ernest Dankert
Messages: 133
Registered: May 2007
Location: Ogden, New York
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Start with the high Si (silicon), check air filter and insure it is not being bypassed. I dislike K+N; some advocate the method. High Si will scour all the other metals.
1977 Eleganza II
Ogden NY
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs Test Results [message #75071 is a reply to message #75070] |
Sat, 27 February 2010 10:55 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ernest,
I wholheatedly agree with you. Cummins is not in favor of K&N type
filters. Their data is based mostly on fleet results. I switched
from the paper Ecolite filters in my big rig, to an AFE cartridge.
Very much like a K& N unit. My sample results from Blackstone in the
past year, since changing over, show very little Si in the samples.
In their analysis they specifically mentioned that whatever filter I
am using, is doing an excellent job. I am beginning to think that the
folks who use K&N type filters are using the wrong cleaning procedure.
Any other method other that what is recommended by the mfr damages
the element and reduces it's function. I got a pretty comprehensive
lecture from AFE after ruining one of their units by improper
cleaning.
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 7:48 AM, Ernest Dankert
<edankert@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> Start with the high Si (silicon), check air filter and insure it is not being bypassed. I dislike K+N; some advocate the method. High Si will scour all the other metals.
> --
> 1977 Eleganza II
> Fairport NY
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs Test Results [message #75085 is a reply to message #75071] |
Sat, 27 February 2010 12:46 |
|
ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thanks to all of you!
I believe that Eric is new at Blackstone and when he read the results to me over the phone there was a worried tone to his voice. He certainly must have based his concern on experience with a modern engine, and not one of our coaches. Reading your responses has lowered my blood pressure considerably! The comment about the air filter is interesting since when I was having trouble with the fuel pump I was often taking the air cleaner off and back on. On some trips the engine would literally ROAR as I opened the secondaries. This makes me wonder if I had not fully attached the air cleaner.
The next sample will settle my mind (I hope!)
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
On Feb 27, 2010, at 8:55 AM, Steven Ferguson wrote:
> Ernest,
> I wholheatedly agree with you. Cummins is not in favor of K&N type
> filters. Their data is based mostly on fleet results. I switched
> from the paper Ecolite filters in my big rig, to an AFE cartridge.
> Very much like a K& N unit. My sample results from Blackstone in the
> past year, since changing over, show very little Si in the samples.
> In their analysis they specifically mentioned that whatever filter I
> am using, is doing an excellent job. I am beginning to think that the
> folks who use K&N type filters are using the wrong cleaning procedure.
> Any other method other that what is recommended by the mfr damages
> the element and reduces it's function. I got a pretty comprehensive
> lecture from AFE after ruining one of their units by improper
> cleaning.
>
> On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 7:48 AM, Ernest Dankert
> <edankert@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Start with the high Si (silicon), check air filter and insure it is not being bypassed. I dislike K+N; some advocate the method. High Si will scour all the other metals.
>> --
>> 1977 Eleganza II
>> Fairport NY
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Ferguson
> '76 EII
> Sierra Vista, AZ
> Urethane bushing source
> www.bdub.net/ferguson/
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs Test Results [message #75099 is a reply to message #75089] |
Sat, 27 February 2010 16:49 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Roger,
Would it be a good idea to standardize what we put in the ADDITIONAL REMARKS
block to:
GMC FWD M/H / Olds 455
GMC FWD M/H / Olds 403
GMC FWD M/H / TH-425
GMC FWD M/H / Final Drive
GMC FWD M/H / 6000W Onan
GMC FWD M/H / 4000W Onan
Also do you think it's worth the time and effort for people who have sent
samples to Blackstone WITHOUT specifying this information to do so to get
more info into the database?
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Roger Black
Sent: Sunday, 28 February 2010 6:28 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs Test Results
Now, when you get a Blackstone test done, PLEASE PUT "GMC MOTORHOME"
in the remarks section so they don't just include us along with the
autos. BTW, they don't know the different models of GMC's available
so be sure to say it's the motorhome version of the 455/403 engines.
Roger
77 Birchaven 403 SB
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs Test Results [message #75117 is a reply to message #75071] |
Sat, 27 February 2010 21:53 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Steve,
Your correct as to your evaluation on the method of cleaning and
oiling the K&N type air filter.
Viscus impingment filters work with the adhesives on the media. If you
fail to coat the media, particles will penitrate through.
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ernest,
> Â I wholheatedly agree with you. Â Cummins is not in favor of K&N type
> filters. Â Their data is based mostly on fleet results. Â I switched
> from the paper Ecolite filters in my big rig, to an AFE cartridge.
> Very much like a K& N unit. Â My sample results from Blackstone in the
> past year, since changing over, show very little Si in the samples.
> In their analysis they specifically mentioned that whatever filter I
> am using, is doing an excellent job. Â I am beginning to think that the
> folks who use K&N type filters are using the wrong cleaning procedure.
> Â Any other method other that what is recommended by the mfr damages
> the element and reduces it's function. Â I got a pretty comprehensive
> lecture from AFE after ruining one of their units by improper
> cleaning.
>
> On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 7:48 AM, Ernest Dankert
> <edankert@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Start with the high Si (silicon), check air filter and insure it is not being bypassed. I dislike K+N; some advocate the method. High Si will scour all the other metals.
>> --
>> 1977 Eleganza II
>> Fairport NY
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Ferguson
> '76 EII
> Sierra Vista, AZ
> Urethane bushing source
> www.bdub.net/ferguson/
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs Test Results [message #75127 is a reply to message #75099] |
Sun, 28 February 2010 06:42 |
comcast
Messages: 604
Registered: August 2009
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
The standardization is there already IF you enter "GMC MOTORHOME" in
the remarks section. On the form, you already enter the engine size,
onan, final drive, tranny as the item being tested. By entering this
info it will only be used to create a base for our usage. It's the
info on the far right column on the reports.
Larry, what's a 500 Caddy? <G> It doesn't count unless you get a big
enough sample. One is about it for you. Joking aside, go ahead and
enter it as a motorhome and they'll prolly compare it to the Olds
engines if that's what you want.
The whole idea as to separating our engines from the speedsters is the
totally different usage of the same basic engines. This leads to
comparing apples to apples for us. Without the identification,
they'll think we're just another 442 blowing down the streets of LA.
Don't really think there's a need to separate the onan's. Prolly the
same engine but I don't know for sure. Same usage though.
Hope this answers your questions, Rob.
Also, when you ask for testing bottles, you can request multiple
bottles to test all units at the same time if wanted. Just ask for
however many you need on your request. Tell em I sent ya.
For those of you at WS, don't miss the Blackstone presentation. He's
good, he's funny, and you might get a cap to boot. <G> Another plus,
it's an American home grown family business AND they will spend the
time with you to explain your results if you ask for more info.
Roger
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Wed Sep 25 04:22:24 CDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.00960 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
