Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Fuel Cells
| Fuel Cells [message #74900] |
Wed, 24 February 2010 14:33  |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Did anyone catch the piece on 60 Minutes this weekend about Bloom Energy's fuel cells? Of course they come from our very own Silicon Valley, the cradle of innovation. (I'm such a snob!)
They have units in "production" now that are powering Google, FedEx, ebay, and so on, as well as our local Fox affiliate KTVU.
It seems that the founder wants to deploy these to homeowners, and is projecting that in 5 - 10 years a $3,000 unit will be available to power a house. They operate on natural gas, propane, methane, diesel, etc., but do not use combustion for electric generation.
After reading Jim B's Daily Pose about the Onan owner who wanted Jim to own it after making a repair I though that our clatter boxes might be short lived. If a fuel cell can power a home, why not a motor home. At least the genset could be replaced.
Then again how big of an electric motor would we need to replace the 455?
There is a good write up on Green Tech's site:
<http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Bloom-Energy-Revealed/>
Also, the San Jose Mercury News has an article about today's news conference with Colin Powell and our very own Governator, Arnold.
<http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_14461347>
The future is looking bright.
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Cells [message #74905 is a reply to message #74904] |
Wed, 24 February 2010 15:18  |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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They operate at about 1,500 degrees F, 800 deg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "D C *Mac* Macdonald" <k2gkk@hotmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 1:17:09 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Cells
Yes, but those are HYDROGEN fuel cells, not the multi-fuel type!
Mac Macdonald
Oklahoma City
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: jarvis210@shaw.ca
> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:04:13 -0600
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Cells
>
>
>
> Fuel cells?
> These people have been doing it for years.
> http://www.ballard.com/
> --
> "I've always been crazy, but it kept me from going insane"
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Cells [message #74906 is a reply to message #74900] |
Wed, 24 February 2010 15:31 |
Tripp 33
Messages: 99
Registered: October 2009
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Something to consider.. Battery powered buses and cars and rolling land fills. Those batteries are not cheap to dispose of.
Jeff
Toledo, OH
1978 transmode
"Wild Rover"
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: ljdavick@comcast.net
> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:33:17 -0600
> Subject: [GMCnet] Fuel Cells
>
>
>
> Did anyone catch the piece on 60 Minutes this weekend about Bloom Energy's fuel cells? Of course they come from our very own Silicon Valley, the cradle of innovation. (I'm such a snob!)
>
> They have units in "production" now that are powering Google, FedEx, ebay, and so on, as well as our local Fox affiliate KTVU.
>
> It seems that the founder wants to deploy these to homeowners, and is projecting that in 5 - 10 years a $3,000 unit will be available to power a house. They operate on natural gas, propane, methane, diesel, etc., but do not use combustion for electric generation.
>
> After reading Jim B's Daily Pose about the Onan owner who wanted Jim to own it after making a repair I though that our clatter boxes might be short lived. If a fuel cell can power a home, why not a motor home. At least the genset could be replaced.
>
> Then again how big of an electric motor would we need to replace the 455?
>
> There is a good write up on Green Tech's site:
> <http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Bloom-Energy-Revealed/>
> http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Bloom-Energy-Revealed/
>
> Also, the San Jose Mercury News has an article about today's news conference with Colin Powell and our very own Governator, Arnold.
>
> <http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_14461347>
> http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_14461347
>
> The future is looking bright.
>
> --
> Larry Davick
> The Mystery Machine
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| Re: Fuel Cells [message #74916 is a reply to message #74900] |
Wed, 24 February 2010 17:13 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Bloom is doing it with low cost materials. that is the advance here. It would be nice to power a motorhome with one, including the drive!!!
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Cells [message #74918 is a reply to message #74907] |
Wed, 24 February 2010 17:24 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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I wonder where the noise comes from. There must be some fans, compressors, or something.
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Black" <r1black@comcast.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 2:00:59 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Cells
This looks more our speed and requirements
http://ppd.delphi.com/pdf/ppd/cv/energy/fuelcells.pdf
High quality, reliable power: 110 VAC and/or 12 VDC
High fuel efficiency: 25 to 30% lower heating value (LHV)
Low noise: 62 dBa at 3 meters
Compact design: 800 mm length, 31.5 in
590 mm width, 23.2 in
660 mm height 26 in
Relatively low weight: 150 kg/ 330 lbs
The dimensions are definitely nice along with the weight factor. Runs
on natural gas, diesel, bio-diesel, propane, gasoline, coal-derived
fuel and military logistics fuel.
Roger
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: Fuel Cells [message #74929 is a reply to message #74925] |
Wed, 24 February 2010 19:35 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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| jayrabe wrote on Wed, 24 February 2010 19:55 |
746 watts/hp x 455 hp =~ 340kw to drive the GMC
Probably not going to happen with SOFC's. Compact nuclear perhaps...
J
76 Palm Beach
Portland, OR
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Sir: these are the #s I found
455 cu in....212 HP - 344 lb torque (91 octane recomended)
403 cu in....200 HP - 315 lb torque (87 octane recomended)
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Fuel Cells [message #74931 is a reply to message #74900] |
Wed, 24 February 2010 20:08 |
jhb1
Messages: 303
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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Here is the Rolls Royce version has a good explanation of how a fuel cell works shameless plug I work for Rolls in Montreal
| ljdavick wrote on Wed, 24 February 2010 15:33 |
Did anyone catch the piece on 60 Minutes this weekend about Bloom Energy's fuel cells? "SNIP"The future is looking bright.
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John H. Bell
77 Royale; QuadBag,Manny OneTon,Honda EV4010, FITech
Montreal Qc.
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| Re: Fuel Cells [message #74932 is a reply to message #74931] |
Wed, 24 February 2010 20:12 |
jhb1
Messages: 303
Registered: February 2004
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OOPS Forgot the link
http://www.rolls-royce.com/energy/energy_products/fuel_cells/
| jhb1 wrote on Wed, 24 February 2010 21:08 |
Here is the Rolls Royce version has a good explanation of how a fuel cell works shameless plug I work for Rolls in Montreal
| ljdavick wrote on Wed, 24 February 2010 15:33 |
Did anyone catch the piece on 60 Minutes this weekend about Bloom Energy's fuel cells? "SNIP"The future is looking bright.
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John H. Bell
77 Royale; QuadBag,Manny OneTon,Honda EV4010, FITech
Montreal Qc.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Cells [message #74936 is a reply to message #74932] |
Wed, 24 February 2010 20:27 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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John,
So you work for the "real" Rolls-Royce, and not VW the car Rolls-Royce, no? And you drive the Rolls-Royce of Motorhomes. Oh, well, I suppose it's the Cadillac of Motorhomes, but you get the idea...
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
----- Original Message -----
From: "jhb1" <jhbmjk@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 6:12:00 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Cells
OOPS Forgot the link
http://www.rolls-royce.com/energy/energy_products/fuel_cells/
jhb1 wrote on Wed, 24 February 2010 21:08
> Here is the Rolls Royce version has a good explanation of how a fuel cell works shameless plug I work for Rolls in Montreal
>
> ljdavick wrote on Wed, 24 February 2010 15:33
> > Did anyone catch the piece on 60 Minutes this weekend about Bloom Energy's fuel cells? "SNIP"The future is looking bright.
--
John H. Bell
77 Royale
Montreal Qc.
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: Fuel Cells [message #74951 is a reply to message #74902] |
Thu, 25 February 2010 04:24 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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As long as you are discussing alternative fuels, take a look at this one:
http://swiftenterprises.com/AOPA%20Interview.html
My pilots club is visiting them next month in Delphi, Indiana. Delphi is near Lafayette. I intend to go on the trip. If anyone one else is interested in going, there is a flying-in Lafayette and they will transport you by car to to Swift's location. I'm just going to drive down there since it is so close.
We are lobbying to be one of the locations that sells this stuff. We have everything already in place to store and sell it since we lost 87 octane fuel a few years back. We like it because it contains no alcohol and no lead. One of the biggest problems we in general aviation have is the lead content. I'm and many others are tired of having to remove plugs and pick the excess lead from our current fuel out of them.
Swift only wants to attack the aviation market but if it gets out there and performs well, I'll try it in my GMC.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Fuel Cells [message #74967 is a reply to message #74925] |
Thu, 25 February 2010 15:34 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Yeah, compact nuke like on Asimov's Foundation series, eh?
Regarding horspower, where do you get 455 HP? These 455's have ~250 HP.\ and remember, if you use DC Electric motors, all of your torque is available at zero RPM. You need much less power to keep a rolling vehicle rolling, just ask the railroads...
Some large capacitors or batteries would give you your starting grunt.
| jayrabe wrote on Wed, 24 February 2010 17:55 |
746 watts/hp x 455 hp =~ 340kw to drive the GMC
Probably not going to happen with SOFC's. Compact nuclear perhaps...
J
76 Palm Beach
Portland, OR
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-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Cells [message #74987 is a reply to message #74957] |
Thu, 25 February 2010 22:38 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| tbpartridge wrote on Thu, 25 February 2010 06:25 |
Ken,
As fellow pilot that lives only 20 miles from Delphi I'm very interested in
this project. What are the dates for the project show?
Tony Partridge
Logansport IN
78 PB powered by 454 TBI DynoSource
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I just looked it up and it is April 17th. I originally thought it was in March. The fly-in breakfast is at the Purdue University (West Lafayette) Airport. The Swift fuel tour is after that in Delphi. They have asked us not to fly into Delphi due to lack of sufficient parking for the expected number of attendees. If you do fly in to Delphi they have 2900 feet of good paved runway.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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