Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Jim Bounds - Vacuum Resevoir Tanks
| [GMCnet] Jim Bounds - Vacuum Resevoir Tanks [message #74884] |
Wed, 24 February 2010 10:56  |
chip
Messages: 37
Registered: November 2009
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Hey Jim:
Earlier this month you talked about vacuum resevoir tanks on your
daily pros site. I would like to put this setup on my coach - but
can't find anything on your site.
Can you tell me what I need to re-create the setup you described ?
Thanks - Chip
BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }
. ___________
. /_][__] [ ] [ ]| 1977 Clasco 26'
. *O-------OO-----* aka "Mater"
On Wed 24/02/10 8:23 AM , "Jim Bounds" gmccoop@yahoo.com sent:
Gene & others,
You are right, it really comes down to why you wanna do it. The
right answer is "because I want to". If you ask is it an economical
move I would tell you to run away. If it is to get more room in your
coach I would say pack lighter. If it's to have something no one else
has be prepared to pay to have it.
We mounted the entry door in the slide-- not even the Prevost boys
are that nutty! The coach ended up being 11' wide "Ewak hut" fully
deployed, it was cool but you had to be a short guy to feel
comfortable which the guy we built it for was. Now the coach is in
Kentucky and the new owner is excited to "have" something like that
so I would say he is a good fit for it.
If you guys are just batting the idea around for fun, I would say
thats the best place to keep it. Been there, done that, have the
scars to prove it!
Cost--- if you have to ask, trust me it will cost too much! Manny
told me that after finishing his, I think I brought that question to
a new level!
Jim Bounds
--------------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: Mr.erf ERFisher
To:
Sent: Wed, February 24, 2010 9:24:52 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Slide out interior shots
one thing
everyone I have talked to that has done slide-outs on a GMC, say, I
WOULD
NOT DO IT AGAIN.
Manny does anything (because he can;>)
and JimB said it was tough ( he did two on one coach)
the slide out the back,guy, still has leaks, n, stuff
I don't want to speak for them, so you can ask them, but I don't
think any
will recommend doing a slide-out with out a lot of thought about the
effort
required, chassis modifications, drive motors, leaks, covers, etc.
good luck, but this is a big deal
gene
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 6:13 AM, Jay Fox wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Janet I will continue my search
>
>
>
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=32529&title=slideout-one&cat=20
[4]
> --
> Jay Fox
> Calgary AB Canada
>
>
> 73 Painted Desert (Turtle)
> Wifes 75 Transmode (Unutter1)
> 78 Transmode (Donor)
>
> Official Club Haulers
>
> http://www.amra.ca [5]
> http://www.amra.ca/Club%20Hauler.htm [6]
> http://www.amra.ca/Pictures/Club%20Haulers%202/ [7]
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL
and
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http://gmcmotorhome.info/ [9]
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html [10]
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jim Bounds - Vacuum Resevoir Tanks [message #74940 is a reply to message #74884] |
Wed, 24 February 2010 20:54  |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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Jim's vacuum tanks are basically some capped pieces of PVC pipe with fittings that attach them to the brake booster. They basically enlarge the vacuum chamber so you have more 'boost' if the engine stalls and you need to hit the brake pedal more than once. A neat idea that has no moving parts and is pretty foolproof in my opinion. There are also those that like the idea of an additional vacuum pump, but then you have to deal with extra wiring and an electrical pump that can break down.
Jim sells the fittings, tubing, and instructions as a kit, and you add your own PVC pipe and endcaps. He really is only charging for the fittings and definitely not getting rich on the profits from this kit.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jim Bounds - Vacuum Resevoir Tanks [message #74997 is a reply to message #74940] |
Fri, 26 February 2010 08:46 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
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I don't know but..
Wasn't there recently, about a month back or so, some comments about why NOT TO USED a vacuum reservour???
Seemed quite to the point and if I remember, was declaring SAFETY was the point of the commentary...
With these things being as touchy about the vacuum source, you'd have to be very careful about what you choose for lines, fittings, even the reservour. any leakage at all will cost you your breaks.
Gatsbys' CRUISER  now has a vacuum pump with the engine supposedly supplying suck through the vacuum pump. Even so, the vacuum pump comes on almost everytime I use the brake pedal. this tells me the engine does not get through the vacuum pump. further testing will prove or disprove this thought.
It just seems to me that adding hang on equipment as crucial as the brake system vacuum, the only source of your braking effort other than the parking brake, has to be installed in such a way that the system is nearly impossible to fail, and this includes the type of hoses, no cheap air line here, the fittings and the tank. Even placement has to be considered so the hoses, tank and such are protected from broken belts debri and road alligators. Nearly has to be in its own protected area as this is a life and death protective system and it won't take much to cause it to fail.
LarC ( I have to remind myself sometimes, that a vehicle has much more technology and safe guards built into them then we might imagine )
Alien Encounter Official Trailor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaCMfYTMHhA
Alien Encounter - The Tribute
http://vimeo.com/2454089
WDW Transportation - A History
http://vimeo.com/2442105
Kitchen Kabert - The Tribute
http://vimeo.com/2307524
World of Motion - The Tribute
http://vimeo.com/2305696
Horizons - Ultimate Tribute
http://vimeo.com/2241516
Muppetvision 3D Ultimate Tribute
http://vimeo.com/2191613
The Haunted Mansion WDW 2007
http://vimeo.com/2187422
Gatsbys' CRUISER  08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jim Bounds - Vacuum Resevoir Tanks [message #75015 is a reply to message #74997] |
Fri, 26 February 2010 13:17 |
shawnee
Messages: 422
Registered: February 2004
Location: NC
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| Larry C wrote on Fri, 26 February 2010 09:46 |
I don't know but..
Wasn't there recently, about a month back or so, some comments about why NOT TO USED a vacuum reservour???
Seemed quite to the point and if I remember, was declaring SAFETY was the point of the commentary...
With these things being as touchy about the vacuum source, you'd have to be very careful about what you choose for lines, fittings, even the reservour. any leakage at all will cost you your breaks.
Gatsbys' CRUISER now has a vacuum pump with the engine supposedly supplying suck through the vacuum pump. Even so, the vacuum pump comes on almost everytime I use the brake pedal. this tells me the engine does not get through the vacuum pump. further testing will prove or disprove this thought.
It just seems to me that adding hang on equipment as crucial as the brake system vacuum, the only source of your braking effort other than the parking brake, has to be installed in such a way that the system is nearly impossible to fail, and this includes the type of hoses, no cheap air line here, the fittings and the tank. Even placement has to be considered so the hoses, tank and such are protected from broken belts debri and road alligators. Nearly has to be in its own protected area as this is a life and death protective system and it won't take much to cause it to fail.
LarC ( I have to remind myself sometimes, that a vehicle has much more technology and safe guards built into them then we might imagine )
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I have a metal vacuum tank with a vacuum pump installed but tied into the tank. The tank has a check valve in the tank that goes to the engine vacuum. The pump is connected to the tank but it will only come on when I flip a switch on the dash. There is also a vacuum guage on the tank to show vacuum level. The hose from the booster goes directly to the tank and the tank serves as extra capacity for the booster vacuum. The pump is only to be used if the engine dies. Then I flip the switch and have all the vacuum needed for the brakes to stop the coach. Kind of belt and suspenders approach and it works It can supply 21 inches vacuum when needed as long as I want. The tank came from a Summit catalog.
Gene Dotson
74 Canyonlands
www.bdub.net/Motorhome_Enhancements New Windows and Aluminum Radiators
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jim Bounds - Vacuum Resevoir Tanks [message #75064 is a reply to message #75015] |
Sat, 27 February 2010 08:01 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
Karma: 0
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The tank has a check valve in the tank that goes to the engine vacuum. The pump is connected to the tank but it will only come on when I flip a switch on the dash.
_________________________________________________________
I am thinking the vacuum pump needs to be as close to the brake booster connection as possible with the check valve on the hose going to the canister. I think, in my case, it is necesary to eliminate any possible source of loss of vacuum in these touch brake systems. maybe even a check valve in the engine vacuum line too.
The problem I have heard about a manual switch on the vacuum pump has always been the fear of FORGETTING to switch the vac pump on in the heat of the moment. There have been a couple of comments about this but the system should be as fail safe as we can possibly design eliminating any possible loss of vacuum if a hose comes off or gets damaged. Yes, I am perhaps thinking too deep but its better to have prepared for a problem than to experience the problem and not have brakes.
There is also a vacuum guage on the tank to show vacuum level. The hose from the booster goes directly to the tank and the tank serves as extra capacity for the booster vacuum. The pump is only to be used if the engine dies. Then I flip the switch and have all the vacuum needed for the brakes to stop the coach. Kind of belt and suspenders approach
_______________________________________________________
Be sure your hoses are protected, or even covered, tied down and has hose clamps to prevent coming off.
The hose is very vulnerable and your check valve is too far from the brake booster. Any leak after or at the tank would lose the vacuum and thus, no brakes. Just my opinion but the GMC is just too big to take chances.
If your parking brake is operating, it still wont stop the coach, it is designed for parking. If your parking brake is not working, putting the Tranny in park will not stop and will damage the tranny.
My thoughts and expressions are my own. I come from a company that ran on critical systems so I learned about critical system design from that model.
My comments are offered as a design comment and not to be considered as anything negative. You may consider my comment or disreguard as you wish. Good luck
LarC ( Coming from a company that had all those new engineers designing critical systems that would fail because they did not consider the obvious flaws in their designs. In our case, Think Safe! )
I am not a professional mechanic, I putz. As with everyone else, Cost makes me do more to the coach than I ever would have in the past maintenance and modification wise.
Gatsbys' CRUISER 08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
_
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jim Bounds - Vacuum Resevoir Tanks [message #75078 is a reply to message #75003] |
Sat, 27 February 2010 11:58 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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The whole idea of a supplimental vacuum system in my eyes is to give you something to help ride the coach to the side of the road if the motor fails. This might never happen but when it does the system needs to do it's job automatically-- no switches to flip, nothing to do but press the brake. As someone said, you need something failsafe, something simple, uncomplicated with as few parts to break as possible. The only actual additional component with the vacuum tanks is a second check valce. This set up is certainly not rocket science but it will do the intended job whenever the condition occures.
Sorry, I do not recommend adding the vacuum motor pumps mainly because I do not want to complicte the brake system for many reasons. If the motor fails, you need to safely get to the side of the road, all the other features are just that-- other features. All I really want is a safe way to stop the coach and that is not hard to do.
There has always been 2 camps on this subject and thats fine but understand that you must compare apples. I will tell you this, if you were to have some catestrophic accident and the brakes were to blame-- I would not show the police or the insurance adjuster the wired in vacuum pump and some complicated pile of hoses, switches, wire & motors. I want someone to back me and call me chicken if you like but modifying brakes is not a smart thing to do-- sorry.
Even the vacuum tanks are a modify I know but at least it is so simple they may not totally shut you doen and you can show it is a positive thing to have it. Again sorry but wiring in pumps and stuff can only be an issue in that situation. You never think about that side of the wall until you hit it, I see stuff like that often being where I am and I want no part of the problem.
You can bat this idea all over the place and there are some other issues I may respectfully differ with but my opinions are based on actually doing the repairs, not just speculations and opinions. I do not come up with contrasting opinions for arguments sake and I ususally don;t say anything about these issues of different opinion unless someone asks me or I feel a thread is getting offbase. On this subject while it may be fun to bat around ideas, there are some here on the net, many lurkers who listen to some of this and go out and actually do it. Those folks need to think about all sides of the issue, not just an interesting idea. You must consider it all and safety mst always be the number 1 consideration.
The piece that was written about vacuum pumps being more reliable than a tank with 1 check valve is in my opinion a dangerous concept. Adding a vacuum pump, plumbing and wiring to make it work is not a safe thing to do-- sorry but my opinion and that is why I took exception and posted something contrasting to that idea.
Do what you want, this is America but be darn sure you know your risk in doing something with brakes. Recently, we had a coach in here with all disc which simply would not stop the coach. I discovered many unique things having to do with changing out the rear brakes to disc. I found the problems and they were things that simply you should not expose yourself to-- at least thats how I feel.
If you want reliable, good brakes, bring your brake system to original, replace all the components and if you like add a sensatized booster, bleed it all down well, adjust the shoes and you will have good brakes. If you do not, go back to basics and you will find the problem. The original brakes on the GMC were NOT deficient, the GM attorney group would not have produced a machine with faulty or inadiquite brakes-- I just have to reject that notion so if that is true, all these mods only go to complicate the world. back to basics brother and you will be happy. I may be the only one saying this and it might not be a popular platform but I know it is a safe one and thats what it's all about at the end of the day.
Jim Bounds
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jim Bounds - Vacuum Resevoir Tanks [message #75093 is a reply to message #75076] |
Sat, 27 February 2010 13:59 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
Karma: 0
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I hear some that say their's comes on everytime they hit the brake. That is a sign of a problem. The pump should sit there and mind it's own buisness until you need it.
__________________________________________________________
YUP. Well, mine almost comes on every time I stop.
I have the engine vacuum hooked to the vac pump exh port but the engine does not seem to have the negative pressure to such anything through the vac pump.
This is another test I need to do this summer, pull the fuse to the vac pump and see if I still have brakes the normal way.
maybe I need to change it with some check valves????
It never ends.
LarC ( not one to change a factory design but the vac pump idea has its merits )
Alien Encounter Official Trailor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaCMfYTMHhA
Alien Encounter - The Tribute
http://vimeo.com/2454089
WDW Transportation - A History
http://vimeo.com/2442105
Kitchen Kabert - The Tribute
http://vimeo.com/2307524
World of Motion - The Tribute
http://vimeo.com/2305696
Horizons - Ultimate Tribute
http://vimeo.com/2241516
Muppetvision 3D Ultimate Tribute
http://vimeo.com/2191613
The Haunted Mansion WDW 2007
http://vimeo.com/2187422
Gatsbys' CRUISER 08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
_
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jim Bounds - Vacuum Resevoir Tanks [message #75094 is a reply to message #74884] |
Sat, 27 February 2010 14:30 |
Luvn737s
Messages: 1106
Registered: June 2007
Karma: 2
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I have to agree with Jim Bounds on this. If the engine quits, you do not immediately lose brake boost. My unscientific testing showed that I get one complete vacuum assist and at least one partial brake assist (that is, pumps of brake pedal).
My emergency brake drill is to step on the brake and don't let up until the coach is stopped and in park.
Randy
1973 26' Painted Desert
Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jim Bounds - Vacuum Resevoir Tanks [message #75270 is a reply to message #75076] |
Mon, 01 March 2010 09:55 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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> I put it on in Quartzsite, while Ken B and Carl S watched.
Hey, come on, Dan. That should be "while Ken B and Carl S HELPED".
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jim Bounds - Vacuum Resevoir Tanks [message #75278 is a reply to message #75270] |
Mon, 01 March 2010 11:59 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| Carl S. wrote on Mon, 01 March 2010 09:55 |
> I put it on in Quartzsite, while Ken B and Carl S watched.
Hey, come on, Dan. That should be "while Ken B and Carl S HELPED".
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If it hadn't been for us the booster would still be in the box it came in.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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