Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Help with Temp. Gauge
| Help with Temp. Gauge [message #74260] |
Thu, 18 February 2010 15:23  |
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WD0AFQ
Messages: 7111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Dexter, Mo.
Karma: 207
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I have lost the temperature gauge. It worked on our test run. Did not work yesterday.
There are two sending units on the front of intake, one on driver's side, I think is the gauge, and one on the passenger side that I have no clue what it is. Goes up into the wiring harness.
I am working with one on the driver's side. My gauge is an old analog, aftermarket, with no name. I can not get to it in the dash without a major tear down. Funny thing to me is that the "wire" is not a wire. It is a very small, insulated, copper tube. Has hole in the thing. Makes no sense to me, but I broke it trying to pull it out of the sending unit. Do we have a gauge expert among us. This is driving me nuts.
Thanks,
Dan
3 In Stainless Exhaust Headers
One Ton All Discs/Reaction Arm
355 FD/Quad Bag/Alum Radiator Manny Tran/New eng.
Holley EFI/10 Tire Air Monitoring System
Solarized Coach/Upgraded Windows
Satelite TV/On Demand Hot Water/3Way Refer
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| Re: [GMCnet] Help with Temp. Gauge [message #74262 is a reply to message #74260] |
Thu, 18 February 2010 15:31  |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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sounds like an oil presssure sender, are you sure
gene
On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 1:23 PM, Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I have lost the temperature gauge. It worked on our test run. Did not work
> yesterday.
> There are two sending units on the front of intake, one on driver's side, I
> think is the gauge, and one on the passenger side that I have no clue what
> it is. Goes up into the wiring harness.
> I am working with one on the driver's side. My gauge is an old analog,
> aftermarket, with no name. I can not get to it in the dash without a major
> tear down. Funny thing to me is that the "wire" is not a wire. It is a very
> small, insulated, copper tube. Has hole in the thing. Makes no sense to me,
> but I broke it trying to pull it out of the sending unit. Do we have a gauge
> expert among us. This is driving me nuts.
> Thanks,
> Dan
> --
> Dan & Teri Gregg
>
> danandteri.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> ///Halon Automatic Fire Extinguishers
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
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Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Help with Temp. Gauge [message #74263 is a reply to message #74260] |
Thu, 18 February 2010 15:35 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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I was wondering if it could be a ground issue. You have the new aluminum manifold, and I would guess that it's grounding through the bolts to the block, but is it painted, or could something be causing the ground to fail? Could the sending unit have been installed with Teflon tape, or similar that is preventing it from completing the circuit?
Is there any value in bolting a ground wire between the manifold and the block, or would that be just silly overkill?
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Gregg" <gregg_dan@hotmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 1:23:39 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [GMCnet] Help with Temp. Gauge
I have lost the temperature gauge. It worked on our test run. Did not work yesterday.
There are two sending units on the front of intake, one on driver's side, I think is the gauge, and one on the passenger side that I have no clue what it is. Goes up into the wiring harness.
I am working with one on the driver's side. My gauge is an old analog, aftermarket, with no name. I can not get to it in the dash without a major tear down. Funny thing to me is that the "wire" is not a wire. It is a very small, insulated, copper tube. Has hole in the thing. Makes no sense to me, but I broke it trying to pull it out of the sending unit. Do we have a gauge expert among us. This is driving me nuts.
Thanks,
Dan
--
Dan & Teri Gregg
danandteri.blogspot.com
///Halon Automatic Fire Extinguishers
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: Help with Temp. Gauge [message #74264 is a reply to message #74260] |
Thu, 18 February 2010 15:58 |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
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Dan,
If its a tiny copper tube, then its doesn't work on electricity, but by heat making pressure inside the tube. The pressure moves your gauge.
I'm not up on the latest gauges but those type were popular down on the farm when I was growing up.
Its likely to be a sealed system and if you broke the tube off, then its toast. The tube could have got kinked and developed small hole while your engine was being changed.
I think you're only fix is to replace the gauge.
Also, if you have EFI, you are likely to have another temperature sensor for that system. That could be the other sensor you see. My OEM sensor is at the front driver side. The EFI sensor is on the front passenger side of the intake manifold.
Just my 2 cents.
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
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| Re: Help with Temp. Gauge [message #74265 is a reply to message #74260] |
Thu, 18 February 2010 16:03 |
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wally
Messages: 643
Registered: August 2004
Location: Omaha Nebraska
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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| WD0AFQ wrote on Thu, 18 February 2010 15:23 |
I have lost the temperature gauge. It worked on our test run. Did not work yesterday.
There are two sending units on the front of intake, one on driver's side, I think is the gauge, and one on the passenger side that I have no clue what it is. Goes up into the wiring harness.
I am working with one on the driver's side. My gauge is an old analog, aftermarket, with no name. I can not get to it in the dash without a major tear down. Funny thing to me is that the "wire" is not a wire. It is a very small, insulated, copper tube. Has hole in the thing. Makes no sense to me, but I broke it trying to pull it out of the sending unit. Do we have a gauge expert among us. This is driving me nuts.
Thanks,
Dan
|
If it is a mechanical gage the tube had fluid/gas in it that changed pressure when the sensing bulb changed temperature. The tube routed the pressure change to the gage which was calibrated in temperature. If the fluid is gone the gage is no good. The other sender is probably for the fuel injection control. Been through tube failing and no temperature indication on a mechanical gage before.
HTH
Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook
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| Re: Help with Temp. Gauge [message #74266 is a reply to message #74260] |
Thu, 18 February 2010 16:27 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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| WD0AFQ wrote on Thu, 18 February 2010 16:23 |
I have lost the temperature gauge. It worked on our test run. Did not work yesterday.
There are two sending units on the front of intake, one on driver's side, I think is the gauge, and one on the passenger side that I have no clue what it is. Goes up into the wiring harness.
I am working with one on the driver's side. My gauge is an old analog, aftermarket, with no name. I can not get to it in the dash without a major tear down. Funny thing to me is that the "wire" is not a wire. It is a very small, insulated, copper tube. Has hole in the thing. Makes no sense to me, but I broke it trying to pull it out of the sending unit. Do we have a gauge expert among us. This is driving me nuts.
Thanks,
Dan
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Pictures Dan...
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Help with Temp. Gauge [message #74268 is a reply to message #74260] |
Thu, 18 February 2010 16:36 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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On Feb 18, 2010, at 2:23 PM, Dan Gregg wrote:
>
>
> I have lost the temperature gauge. It worked on our test run. Did
> not work yesterday.
> There are two sending units on the front of intake, one on driver's
> side, I think is the gauge, and one on the passenger side that I
> have no clue what it is. Goes up into the wiring harness.
> I am working with one on the driver's side. My gauge is an old
> analog, aftermarket, with no name. I can not get to it in the dash
> without a major tear down. Funny thing to me is that the "wire" is
> not a wire. It is a very small, insulated, copper tube. Has hole in
> the thing. Makes no sense to me, but I broke it trying to pull it
> out of the sending unit. Do we have a gauge expert among us. This is
> driving me nuts.
> Thanks,
> Dan
> --
> Dan & Teri Gregg
>
If its not a wire then you have a mechanical temperature gauge. You
cannot disconnect the capillary tube from the gauge or from the
sender. They are a sealed unit. If you pulled out the tube you have
ruined it and the whole thing will have to be replaced. To put one in
you would have to push the sensor through the dash gauge hole and
thread it and the tube down to the engine and turn it in while just
letting the tubing twist. I suspect that it would be a whole lot
easier to just buy an electric gauge and sensor and run a wire down to
the engine. Note: your original wire might still be in place but just
disconnected at each end.
The other temperatrue gauge on the passenger side is probably the one
that came with your TBI system and the wire in it goes back to the ECU
for your TBI system.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Help with Temp. Gauge [message #74272 is a reply to message #74260] |
Thu, 18 February 2010 17:13 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Dan,
A copper tube means it is a mechanical Bourdon tube gage. The copper tube is
connected to a "bulb" in the manifold and a Bourdon tube in the gage. It is
a sealed system and as the temp goes up the fluid in the bulb expands and
the volume increases which in turn makes the gage go up.
http://tinyurl.com/yzgkfal
http://knowledgepublications.com/doe/images/DOE_Instrumentation_Bourdon_Tube
.gif
IIRC the temp sensor on the drivers side in Double Trouble goes to the water
temperature gage in the GMC Fuel - Temp - Oil Pressure gage cluster to the
right of the Speedo on the dash. Does yours work?
I think the easiest thing for you to do would be to install an electrical
water temp gage.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Gregg
Sent: Friday, 19 February 2010 8:24 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Help with Temp. Gauge
I have lost the temperature gauge. It worked on our test run. Did not work
yesterday.
There are two sending units on the front of intake, one on driver's side, I
think is the gauge, and one on the passenger side that I have no clue what
it is. Goes up into the wiring harness.
I am working with one on the driver's side. My gauge is an old analog,
aftermarket, with no name. I can not get to it in the dash without a major
tear down. Funny thing to me is that the "wire" is not a wire. It is a very
small, insulated, copper tube. Has hole in the thing. Makes no sense to me,
but I broke it trying to pull it out of the sending unit. Do we have a gauge
expert among us. This is driving me nuts.
Thanks,
Dan
--
Dan & Teri Gregg
danandteri.blogspot.com
///Halon Automatic Fire Extinguishers
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Help with Temp. Gauge [message #74274 is a reply to message #74272] |
Thu, 18 February 2010 17:19 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Senior Member |
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Dan
Did you say you burned 2 quarts of oil in 500 miles??
Mike in NS
On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 7:13 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> Dan,
>
> A copper tube means it is a mechanical Bourdon tube gage. The copper tube
> is
> connected to a "bulb" in the manifold and a Bourdon tube in the gage. It is
> a sealed system and as the temp goes up the fluid in the bulb expands and
> the volume increases which in turn makes the gage go up.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yzgkfal
>
>
> http://knowledgepublications.com/doe/images/DOE_Instrumentation_Bourdon_Tube
> .gif
>
> IIRC the temp sensor on the drivers side in Double Trouble goes to the
> water
> temperature gage in the GMC Fuel - Temp - Oil Pressure gage cluster to the
> right of the Speedo on the dash. Does yours work?
>
> I think the easiest thing for you to do would be to install an electrical
> water temp gage.
>
> Regards,
> Rob Mueller
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Gregg
> Sent: Friday, 19 February 2010 8:24 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] Help with Temp. Gauge
>
>
>
> I have lost the temperature gauge. It worked on our test run. Did not work
> yesterday.
> There are two sending units on the front of intake, one on driver's side, I
> think is the gauge, and one on the passenger side that I have no clue what
> it is. Goes up into the wiring harness.
> I am working with one on the driver's side. My gauge is an old analog,
> aftermarket, with no name. I can not get to it in the dash without a major
> tear down. Funny thing to me is that the "wire" is not a wire. It is a very
> small, insulated, copper tube. Has hole in the thing. Makes no sense to me,
> but I broke it trying to pull it out of the sending unit. Do we have a
> gauge
> expert among us. This is driving me nuts.
> Thanks,
> Dan
> --
> Dan & Teri Gregg
>
> danandteri.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> ///Halon Automatic Fire Extinguishers
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
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| Re: [GMCnet] Help with Temp. Gauge [message #74275 is a reply to message #74274] |
Thu, 18 February 2010 17:51 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Yeah Dan,
As several others have stated, that's a mechanical gage. My '53 Willys Jeep had one of those on the original engine. As usual, I'm chiming in late on this one as I see you are already on your way to Safford to get a new one. That should fix the problem.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] Help with Temp. Gauge [message #74301 is a reply to message #74260] |
Thu, 18 February 2010 21:21 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Some of the early temp gauges had a capillary tube coming from the
engine to the gauge. If the tube is ruptured anywhere, it won't work.
A lot of aftermarket oil pressure gauges are the same. Just get a
new gauge, you can't replace the capillary tube on a temp gauge, but
you can on an oil pressure gauge.
On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I have lost the temperature gauge. It worked on our test run. Did not work yesterday.
> There are two sending units on the front of intake, one on driver's side, I think is the gauge, and one on the passenger side that I have no clue what it is. Goes up into the wiring harness.
> I am working with one on the driver's side. My gauge is an old analog, aftermarket, with no name. I can not get to it in the dash without a major tear down. Funny thing to me is that the "wire" is not a wire. It is a very small, insulated, copper tube. Has hole in the thing. Makes no sense to me, but I broke it trying to pull it out of the sending unit. Do we have a gauge expert among us. This is driving me nuts.
> Thanks,
> Dan
> --
> Dan & Teri Gregg
>
> danandteri.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> ///Halon Automatic Fire Extinguishers
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Help with Temp. Gauge [message #74331 is a reply to message #74324] |
Fri, 19 February 2010 01:06 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| WD0AFQ wrote on Thu, 18 February 2010 23:40 |
The bottom cable had a pretty sharp kink in it up near the cruise. I will email you.
It shifts good.
Thanks Manny.
Dan
|
If the bottom cable is not burned up you can replace just the center of it. NAPA has a universal kit you can buy and cut to length. I broke one up near Larry Weidner's place headed north a few years back. I stopped at NAPA in St Paul, got the kit and replaced it in the parking lot. The end of most of those cables is plastic or nylon and designed to shear off if the cable is jammed.
I think I read that you have an OEM cruise control and BOTH the CC and the speedo do not work. If this is true then the lower cable or the speedo gear is broken. If you have one of those speed reduction devices because of your non-standard final drive ratio, the problem could also be in there.
Undo the cable at the trans and turn it by hand. You the can watch to see if the cable turns on the other end at the CC and also at the Speedo.
I'll bet the cable is broken. If you do buy the kit, keep the extra cable you will have left over when you are done. I need a piece of speedo cable to make an oil dipstick out of.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Help with Temp. Gauge [message #74341 is a reply to message #74331] |
Fri, 19 February 2010 07:31 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Senior Member |
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Ken
You're getting creative again...tell us about the 'dipstick' with speedo
cable. <g>
Mike in NS
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:06 AM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> WD0AFQ wrote on Thu, 18 February 2010 23:40
> > The bottom cable had a pretty sharp kink in it up near the cruise. I will
> email you.
> > It shifts good.
> > Thanks Manny.
> > Dan
>
> If the bottom cable is not burned up you can replace just the center of it.
> NAPA has a universal kit you can buy and cut to length. I broke one up
> near Larry Weidner's place headed north a few years back. I stopped at NAPA
> in St Paul, got the kit and replaced it in the parking lot. The end of most
> of those cables is plastic or nylon and designed to shear off if the cable
> is jammed.
>
> I think I read that you have an OEM cruise control and BOTH the CC and the
> speedo do not work. If this is true then the lower cable or the speedo gear
> is broken. If you have one of those speed reduction devices because of your
> non-standard final drive ratio, the problem could also be in there.
>
> Undo the cable at the trans and turn it by hand. You the can watch to see
> if the cable turns on the other end at the CC and also at the Speedo.
>
> I'll bet the cable is broken. If you do buy the kit, keep the extra cable
> you will have left over when you are done. I need a piece of speedo cable
> to make an oil dipstick out of.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
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