Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Resto GMC? Perhaps it is time
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| Re: [GMCnet] Resto GMC? Perhaps it is time [message #73294 is a reply to message #73283] |
Mon, 08 February 2010 18:33   |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Gary,
It was the backers for the DeLorean Motor Co. Jim Espey is the
President and I delivered it to him in Humble, TX. That's when I
asked and told what it was for.
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Steve;
>
> Was that Jim B or JimK that got the front clip??
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I delivered a front clip to Jim a couple of years ago that he said was
>> going to be used in a project that would ultimately end in finding a
>> newer power plant for GMCs.
>
>
> --
> Gary and PoohBear
> 73 CL Stretch in CA
> _______________________________________________
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--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Resto GMC? Perhaps it is time [message #73312 is a reply to message #73294] |
Mon, 08 February 2010 21:53 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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I can tell you it will take considerable amount of funds to do these .
If you have not worked on these units, your not going to be able to succeed.
I would certainly hire someone like Max Pardy to have as a consultant
as he has experience and is semi retired.
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gary,
> Â It was the backers for the DeLorean Motor Co. Â Jim Espey is the
> President and I delivered it to him in Humble, TX. Â That's when I
> asked and told what it was for.
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey Steve;
>>
>> Â Was that Jim B or JimK that got the front clip??
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I delivered a front clip to Jim a couple of years ago that he said was
>>> going to be used in a project that would ultimately end in finding a
>>> newer power plant for GMCs.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gary and PoohBear
>> 73 CL Stretch in CA
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Ferguson
> '76 EII
> Sierra Vista, AZ
> Urethane bushing source
> www.bdub.net/ferguson/
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Resto GMC? Perhaps it is time [message #73326 is a reply to message #73283] |
Tue, 09 February 2010 07:03 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
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Another thread I may not have what it's all about but with a title "Resto" I freel I might be able to help out the direction a bit.
You guys know I am one of the "lousey butchers" when it comes to retrofitting a GMC. I'm damn proud of some of the machines we have transformed our classic coach into and the idea or updating and upgrading the GMC to new technologies, materials, ideas and such is at the core of what we do here---- but (man, don;t you just love it when someone says that!) Repowering the GMC is not something that I see is cost effective or a prudent part of a useable, retro classic coach.
I have 2 machines at my shop right now that I will tell you is a wild departure on a GMC that some will gown at while others gawk on! Not just changing the power plant, not just the drive train, not just the front clip, not just the brakes, frame, wheels but all of it. Throw the baby out with the bath water, tear down the house, scoop up the dirt and lay down a new bedrock-- a Workhorse, chassis 22,ooo GVW with a Duramax turbo diesel, Allison 1000 transmission like the one Steve F. Patriot sports, 19.5" rims, 19" ABS disc brakes and an all wheel air ride suspension. Ok so now, what was it you wanted to modify? The outcome is an awesome machine to some and a stupid morphodite to others but you can't take away the fact you have a highly modified state of the art vehicle. Over the top doesn;t quite describe it.
Are these machine cost effective---not on your life. Are they awesome, you betcha and why were they concieved and created-- because we wanted to and we could do it! If thats what you want-- damn the topedos-- lets write some big checks well then give me a call cuase I am your Huckleberry!
OK, so I'm also going another way, I have a 23e' 73 coach with a 350 Olds motor in it-- one of Jim K. 4:10 diffs with a cam that just might shoot the pistons right through the heads-- as many people feel but next month we'll break this baby in on the drag strip here in Orlando so come on down if you wanna see that!
I'm seeking economy at 60 MPH with this mod. It is a bolt in swap to the 425 and the original frame-- a cheap retrofit. The motor sounds mighty sitting at the shop with 3" Jim K. pipes. The mane of the machine is the "Tin Soldier" and I'm out to prove out his heart.
Through all of this the truth I think I have found is chenging any thing from the original design causes so many "unexpected results" from places you never considered. Look at the 454 mod, man now that is an involved thing that has been perfectly executed but what you should walk away from that with is you must be dedicated to put that puppy in! Do you have what it take, do you wanna give what it takes, be sure before you spend $.
We can bat the idea around and have fun with it very cheap and I think that might just be the most fun you can have with it because when you leave the diving board into that pool make sure your head doesn;t wack the bottom of the pool! I have the scares to prove I've done it!
Lets keep talking about this and give credit to those that jump in, alote of credit. I am in awe on Dave L. and the unbelievable work he did on his 454 mod. It took serious moxy to do all that just to do it and see what happened. If I had stayed out of the pool I think my business would be in a better financial position but here I am and I love it. Keep talking but beware, if you ask for it you just might get it!
Jim Bounds
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| Re: [GMCnet] Resto GMC? Perhaps it is time [message #73332 is a reply to message #73326] |
Tue, 09 February 2010 07:50 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
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Senior Member |
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Just got a call with what the thread was about-- sorry biout some of the last verbage.
If you are suggesting having a standard package on mechanicals creating a running core platform beware! After 30+ years you never know what will be needed even if your say do it all. What is the goal of this idea?
If it's doing all the mechanical cheaper-- sorry that will not do it. If you think going arounf Jim K. , Miguel, myself or others that do this trying to pay the bills you will find you cannot do the job cheaper-- no way. Setting up a shop with the overhead, infrastructure, tools, parts & expertice we have put together and have under our belts collectitely would break you.
If you think you can do the work better-- no prize because all we have learned over the years messing with these-- that learning curve would start from ")" so mayne in a couple of years-- or decades you might be up with us so you will not realize valuer from doing that.
If you hate Jim K., myself and other specialty dealers and want to flush us down your toilet, go for it cause if you do that we will not be here to take up your slack-- good luck on getting the specialty parts cause we will not be here to help you. We are here now and can offer you value NOW-- why would you tear down the awesome parts and services network. You cannot be an island and expect to keep the GMC on the road. Reality is if you think so you are wrong!
So what does it take/ What does it need! If you have good rails, great-- if you need them tack on @ $10K for the parts and labor. You say you will not charge labor to make it break even-- your bank account will tell you how long you can do that! Build your own motor from you own idea, a local shade tree guy and install it yourself with buddies-- good luck doing that more than once!
Guys, what are you saying, what are you thinking, where do you think that idea will go? This niche market is not big enough to not support eachother and to not support those that are offering those special parts you rely upon especially if you are looking to totally renovate a chassis-- you will find parts you just cannot find. If anyone currently in the GMC dealer community supports such an idea, go for it. let me know so I can find something else to get into, right now my fingernails are getting tired.
This is what I do, I do not charge a pile of labor to do it, I have the equipement, expertice and the will to take on a 12,000 pound turd-- are you!
Sorry, but you started the thread!
Jim Bounds
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| Re: [GMCnet] Resto GMC? Perhaps it is time [message #73342 is a reply to message #73332] |
Tue, 09 February 2010 10:36 |
Oldngray
Messages: 544
Registered: August 2009
Location: Punta Gorda Florida
Karma: 0
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Hello Jim, perhaps you did not see or read the original Post in this thread. It mentions just what you already do, I do not believe Michael was taking shots at you or our other great vendors. My take on the original thread was a method to revive the GMC.
Best Regards
Notice the price of motorhomes lately? Even the 10 year old used ones are in the $50s and up.
Why not do as Jim Bounds advocates and begin putting GMCs back on the road. Jim talks about how a $70k GMC is competitive with the new motorhomes they build now, maybe even better.
How about with rebuilt engine, Manny transmission, 3.21, 3.42 or 3.46 final drive, new appliances(not the high end ones), a full size bed in back, two chairs and a table for dining, the OEM couch that makes a bunk bed, 7 Alcoas, Frank Elkins fiberglass parts as needed, a mimimum but effective paint job, new windshields and whatever used parts that are functional and/or no longer available, using other parts from GMC vendors as appropriate and retail for $50-$60,000.
How about it JimB, Jeff Sirum, Leigh Harrison? Time to branch out? What competition is there in that price range? Heck, the little diesel Sprinter chassis Class Cs are $65-100k! JimK could do it but he does not have any room.
I think it is worthy of serious discussion and the GMC is the perfect brand because it was and is still advanced in design and construction. There are a large number of them sitting around rotting away and could be brought back to life, perhaps even better than original by using better insulation and fixing some of whatever the inherent problems were/are-like using the two air bag system per side(not the 4-bag which could be an option), 15k btu A/C; Vintage Air dash A/C, better interior materials and more.
Once a prototype is built and decisions made about final equipment and materials, and suppliers lined up, production would be straight forward. There are people around like Caspro who did the restorations and could lend valuable advice about the pit falls and good things in undertaking this enterprise.
We don't want to reproduce the GMC but to reintroduce it as a modern RV priced toward the entry level side where there is only competition from used motorhomes which are overly priced and, in many cases, not as good as the GMC.
Reliability, using the tried and true mechanical and other OEM systems plus updates where needed and modern but inexpensive furnishings is the concept.
We already have engine builders, carburetor builder, transmission builder, final drive builder, suspension builder, fiberglass parts builder, electric w/s wiper and cruise control builders, custom builders, intake manifold builder, header builder, CV joint builders, radiator builder, a Vintage Air dash A/C that has been successfully installed and more. Cinnabar produces many new parts as well.
There would only be one basic model, a 26 foot coach, and it would not change from year to year though the buyers could purchase some options like 2 vs 1 roof A/C, but only one model generator would be offered like a 5.5kw modern Onan. I would suggest only one fuel tank(saves weight) and two holding tanks(1 for grey and 1 for black water). With one fuel tank you get about, what, 200 miles and no fuel transfer switch. You can leave the grey tank hooked up and open while in the park hook up site. Of course, a macerator could be an option.
Who else thinks of this wacky stuff at 1a.m. besides me??
Thx, Michael at GEMRECS
[Updated on: Sun, 07 February 2010 02:08]
Richard MacDonald
Punta Gorda, Florida
Sold our TZE April 2015
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| Re: [GMCnet] Resto GMC? Perhaps it is time [message #73417 is a reply to message #73342] |
Wed, 10 February 2010 06:08 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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See that, see what happens when you don;t read an entire thread and also see what happens when you don;t reread crap you plunk down? Of course Michael is not taking shots at us, heck he's one of us! I screwed up and got lost in my own tangent blowing along like I did. Alaso, I was called by a good friend who told me I got matter on my head on that post that I missed the point entirely. Sorry bout that folks!
Being custom, personal machines as these GMC's are to most everyone who has one, it would be a waste of time coming up with a standard spec. to follow. Like the italian waiter who says "good selection" as each person at your table orders-- everyone has their own ideas as to what they see is a good thing for their coach. I listen to ones "kings list", give suggestions on what they see as their baby and when the dust clears and they jump up in the seat, the smile they have pulling away from the shop makes it all worthwhile.
I tell folks up front when we start talking that their job is to download all of their ideas to me and to that my job is to enlighten them as to what is possible and the end result could be based on my past experiences. Someone really wants something and by golly I'm here to give it to them. Some thngs people ask for I must differ with insistently because I might know it will not work, usually people will listen because I will do my best to explain why I feel the way I do on issues but in the end it is their coach. Some things I will in the end refuse to do and the customer has the decision then to do it themselves and then the American way kicks in and I'm happy they could have what they wanted-- just not from me.
There are just so many ways to do things and the way I do them is just one. I will keep an open mind but I have found that history is a very good teacher, sometimes can save you from black hole you don;t see. Remember, if you press an issue just because you think it looks good that you will have to live with the outcome if you refuse to consider others comments Keep your eye on the end game and don;t get bogged down. If you want to drive then build a machine for that, if you wanna play then go for it but keep the wallet open.
Jim Bounds
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----- Original Message ----
From: Richard MacDonald <rm1936@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 11:36:10 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Resto GMC? Perhaps it is time
Hello Jim, perhaps you did not see or read the original Post in this thread. It mentions just what you already do, I do not believe Michael was taking shots at you or our other great vendors. My take on the original thread was a method to revive the GMC.
Best Regards
Notice the price of motorhomes lately? Even the 10 year old used ones are in the $50s and up.
Why not do as Jim Bounds advocates and begin putting GMCs back on the road. Jim talks about how a $70k GMC is competitive with the new motorhomes they build now, maybe even better.
How about with rebuilt engine, Manny transmission, 3.21, 3.42 or 3.46 final drive, new appliances(not the high end ones), a full size bed in back, two chairs and a table for dining, the OEM couch that makes a bunk bed, 7 Alcoas, Frank Elkins fiberglass parts as needed, a mimimum but effective paint job, new windshields and whatever used parts that are functional and/or no longer available, using other parts from GMC vendors as appropriate and retail for $50-$60,000.
How about it JimB, Jeff Sirum, Leigh Harrison? Time to branch out? What competition is there in that price range? Heck, the little diesel Sprinter chassis Class Cs are $65-100k! JimK could do it but he does not have any room.
I think it is worthy of serious discussion and the GMC is the perfect brand because it was and is still advanced in design and construction. There are a large number of them sitting around rotting away and could be brought back to life, perhaps even better than original by using better insulation and fixing some of whatever the inherent problems were/are-like using the two air bag system per side(not the 4-bag which could be an option), 15k btu A/C; Vintage Air dash A/C, better interior materials and more.
Once a prototype is built and decisions made about final equipment and materials, and suppliers lined up, production would be straight forward. There are people around like Caspro who did the restorations and could lend valuable advice about the pit falls and good things in undertaking this enterprise.
We don't want to reproduce the GMC but to reintroduce it as a modern RV priced toward the entry level side where there is only competition from used motorhomes which are overly priced and, in many cases, not as good as the GMC.
Reliability, using the tried and true mechanical and other OEM systems plus updates where needed and modern but inexpensive furnishings is the concept.
We already have engine builders, carburetor builder, transmission builder, final drive builder, suspension builder, fiberglass parts builder, electric w/s wiper and cruise control builders, custom builders, intake manifold builder, header builder, CV joint builders, radiator builder, a Vintage Air dash A/C that has been successfully installed and more. Cinnabar produces many new parts as well.
There would only be one basic model, a 26 foot coach, and it would not change from year to year though the buyers could purchase some options like 2 vs 1 roof A/C, but only one model generator would be offered like a 5.5kw modern Onan. I would suggest only one fuel tank(saves weight) and two holding tanks(1 for grey and 1 for black water). With one fuel tank you get about, what, 200 miles and no fuel transfer switch. You can leave the grey tank hooked up and open while in the park hook up site. Of course, a macerator could be an option.
Who else thinks of this wacky stuff at 1a.m. besides me??
Thx, Michael at GEMRECS
[Updated on: Sun, 07 February 2010 02:08]
--
Richard MacDonald
Punta Gorda, Florida
76 Edgemonte
94 K2500 6.5 Turbo Diesel Silverado
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