Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Cadillac 500 Tips for Ken
| Cadillac 500 Tips for Ken [message #70182] |
Sat, 09 January 2010 12:26  |
g.winger
Messages: 792
Registered: February 2008
Location: Warrenton,Missouri
Karma: 0
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Ken and R.M.{down under} Getting close to rolling my galvanized frame 507 w/Hubler conv. under my 78. If you ore doing the build yourself make sure you debur the block really well. Cut my hands up bad, soft wet skin and all. Also, debur the block around the cam bore. Very, very important!!!!! I wrecked two bearings and had to buy another set, AND clean the block a second time. It shaved the OUTSIDE of the bearing!!! One mod I made was a 3/8 water tube from the back of the heads. Cad manifolds are dry. The coolant runs into the block, up into the head and then back down into the block, then forward. ??????? Look on the Cadillac Power Forum for good fotos. You can always plug them if you don,t like it later. One of these days I'll post fotos, got to gret the kids to help. The serpentine belt worked durring breakin. But the alt. and AC were not under load, but nothing flew off. I also drained the oil on my 500. Put the motor on a stand and removed the pan and found 3/4 inch of SLUDGE that didn't drain overnite. Glad I didn't run it first. Spent over 4 hours on cleaning and painting just the pan.
Good Luck,,,Paul{cant wait to finish} Leavitt
PS,,,,,,,,-5 today,,4 inches of snow on the ground and I won't be able to close the MH door untill the clip is all the way in!!!!
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cadillac 500 Tips for Ken [message #70184 is a reply to message #70182] |
Sat, 09 January 2010 12:37  |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Paul,
Thanks for the hints -- they're some I don't think anyone else has
mentioned. I won't burden you with questions right now -- you need to get
that clip in. I hope you've got two come-alongs -- one on each side between
the crossmembers will pull the clip into place very easily.
Ken H.
On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Paul Leavitt <leavittpaul@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ken and R.M.{down under} Getting close to rolling my galvanized frame 507
> w/Hubler conv. under my 78. If you ore doing the build yourself make sure
> you debur the block really well. Cut my hands up bad, soft wet skin and all.
> Also, debur the block around the cam bore. Very, very important!!!!! I
> wrecked two bearings and had to buy another set, AND clean the block a
> second time. It shaved the OUTSIDE of the bearing!!! One mod I made was a
> 3/8 water tube from the back of the heads. Cad manifolds are dry. The
> coolant runs into the block, up into the head and then back down into the
> block, then forward. ??????? Look on the Cadillac Power Forum for good
> fotos. You can always plug them if you don,t like it later. One of these
> days I'll post fotos, got to gret the kids to help. The serpentine belt
> worked durring breakin. But the alt. and AC were not under load, but nothing
> flew off. I also drained the oil on my 500. Put the motor on a stand and
> removed the pan and found 3/4 inch of
> SLUDGE that didn't drain overnite. Glad I didn't run it first. Spent over
> 4 hours on cleaning and painting just the pan.
> Good Luck,,,Paul{cant wait to finish} Leavitt
> PS,,,,,,,,-5 today,,4 inches of snow on the ground and I won't be
> able to close the MH door untill the clip is all the way in!!!!
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: Cadillac 500 Tips for Ken [message #70217 is a reply to message #70182] |
Sat, 09 January 2010 14:26 |
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a quick question, whats the average MPG with the caddy motor? is it about the same as the olds 455? hows drivability compared to the 455?
73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cadillac 500 Tips for Ken [message #70221 is a reply to message #70219] |
Sat, 09 January 2010 14:38 |
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why not talk about it? i'd like to know cause I may toss one in if the hit isn too bad...
| GMCWiperMan wrote on Sat, 09 January 2010 14:29 |
Since I don't yet have mine, don't know the true answer, but from the
little I've heard, I think the answer is a curt, "We don't talk about that."
Ken H.
On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Shan Rose <defconfx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> a quick question, whats the average MPG with the caddy motor? is it about
> the same as the olds 455? hows drivability compared to the 455?
> _______________________________________________
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73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
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| Re: Cadillac 500 Tips for Ken [message #70224 is a reply to message #70182] |
Sat, 09 January 2010 15:11 |
g.winger
Messages: 792
Registered: February 2008
Location: Warrenton,Missouri
Karma: 0
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Ken, go ahead and ask. Also, some of the guys on the Cadillac Power forum had problems with oil pumps. NO OIL PRESSURE. They would remove the pump and the plunger would be stuck open. I spent 2.5 hours on the pump. Noticed that te edges of the gears would "catch" if I rotated it in my hand. I took a needle file too the sharp edges of each gear, then 1500, 2000. Also noticed marks on the block from the edges of the gears. Gasked should be .007 thou... Used 1500 on a slotted dowel in a drill motor on the plunger bore until very smooth. Cleaned each time of course. When priming I got 70psi with the drill on low speed{18v}. Took awhile too get oil up the push rods. If your AL original pump has no scores in the housing, go with it.,,,,I'll think of more later. Toes are warmed up,, working on the stainless,braided new brake lines,,,,
good luck,,,,PL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cadillac 500 Tips for Ken [message #70226 is a reply to message #70182] |
Sat, 09 January 2010 15:17 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Paul,
Thanks, Mate!
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Paul Leavitt
Sent: Sunday, 10 January 2010 5:27 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Cadillac 500 Tips for Ken
Ken and R.M.{down under} Getting close to rolling my galvanized frame 507
w/Hubler conv. under my 78. If you ore doing the build yourself make sure
you debur the block really well. Cut my hands up bad, soft wet skin and all.
Also, debur the block around the cam bore. Very, very important!!!!! I
wrecked two bearings and had to buy another set, AND clean the block a
second time. It shaved the OUTSIDE of the bearing!!! One mod I made was a
3/8 water tube from the back of the heads. Cad manifolds are dry. The
coolant runs into the block, up into the head and then back down into the
block, then forward. ??????? Look on the Cadillac Power Forum for good
fotos. You can always plug them if you don,t like it later. One of these
days I'll post fotos, got to gret the kids to help. The serpentine belt
worked durring breakin. But the alt. and AC were not under load, but nothing
flew off. I also drained the oil on my 500. Put the motor on a stand and
removed the pan and found 3/4 inch of
SLUDGE that didn't drain overnite. Glad I didn't run it first. Spent over 4
hours on cleaning and painting just the pan.
Good Luck,,,Paul{cant wait to finish} Leavitt
PS,,,,,,,,-5 today,,4 inches of snow on the ground and I won't be
able to close the MH door untill the clip is all the way in!!!!
_______________________________________________
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cadillac 500 Tips for Ken [message #70231 is a reply to message #70182] |
Sat, 09 January 2010 15:42 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Paul,
I'm going to intersperse questions with your comments:
On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Paul Leavitt <leavittpaul@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ken and R.M.{down under} Getting close to rolling my galvanized frame 507
> w/Hubler conv. under my 78. If you ore doing the build yourself make sure
> you debur the block really well. Cut my hands up bad, soft wet skin and all.
Is it the casting flashings you're referring to, or the edges of machined
surfaces?
> Also, debur the block around the cam bore. Very, very important!!!!! I
> wrecked two bearings and had to buy another set, AND clean the block a
> second time. It shaved the OUTSIDE of the bearing!!!
So you're saying to radius the edges of the camshaft bore to let the
bushings slide in easier?
> One mod I made was a 3/8 water tube from the back of the heads. Cad
> manifolds are dry. The coolant runs into the block, up into the head and
> then back down into the block, then forward. ??????? Look on the Cadillac
> Power Forum for good fotos. You can always plug them if you don,t like it
> later.
Where does this tube run -- from a port at the rear of the head, outside to
the front (where)? I'm a little confused, probably because I'm thinking
back to old flathead engines, like my '39 Oldsmobile, with brass tubes
running down through the block with squirt holes below the valve seats.
You're not talking about running through the heads like that, are you?
One of these days I'll post fotos, got to gret the kids to help.
That would be GREAT -- Rob and I are textually challenged -- we need
pictures! :-)
The serpentine belt worked durring breakin. But the alt. and AC were not
> under load, but nothing flew off.
Tell me about the serpentine belt: Is it your design or where did you get
it? I've got a serpentine belt on the 455 and REALLY like it. If I can't
use one on the 500, I'll have to find a replacement for the pulley on my
Seltec (Sanden clone) A/C compressor -- I'm NOT going to give that up.
> I also drained the oil on my 500. Put the motor on a stand and removed the
> pan and found 3/4 inch of
SLUDGE that didn't drain overnite. Glad I didn't run it first. Spent over 4
> hours on cleaning and painting just the pan.
>
That's AFTER you rebuilt it??? Where do you figure it was trapped?
Thanks for the info. Hope you got the clip dried (warmed) in today.
I'll ask more in a reply to your follow up message.
Ken
> Good Luck,,,Paul{cant wait to finish} Leavitt
> PS,,,,,,,,-5 today,,4 inches of snow on the ground and I won't be
> able to close the MH door untill the clip is all the way in!!!!
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cadillac 500 Tips for Ken [message #70233 is a reply to message #70224] |
Sat, 09 January 2010 15:56 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Paul,
Seems as if Cadillac put the oil pump where it could be removed for a good
reason! A good friend (& excellent mechanic) lost the oil pump on his
native voyage with his 500. Luckily he had an electric fuel pump powered
through an oil pressure switch which shut the engine down before it was
damaged.
I noticed when we tore the engine down that there were light score marks
from the gears -- no bad for a 75,000+ mile engine, but enough that I
noticed them. I'll pay more attention & perhaps follow your lead. What do
you think of Cad Co's Gold Series pump? Do we even need it?
I don't even want to THINK about temperatures like you've got -- the 41*F
we've got right now is far below my tolerance level. :-)
Thanks,
Ken
On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Paul Leavitt <leavittpaul@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ken, go ahead and ask. Also, some of the guys on the Cadillac Power forum
> had problems with oil pumps. NO OIL PRESSURE. They would remove the pump and
> the plunger would be stuck open. I spent 2.5 hours on the pump. Noticed that
> te edges of the gears would "catch" if I rotated it in my hand. I took a
> needle file too the sharp edges of each gear, then 1500, 2000. Also noticed
> marks on the block from the edges of the gears. Gasked should be .007
> thou... Used 1500 on a slotted dowel in a drill motor on the plunger bore
> until very smooth. Cleaned each time of course. When priming I got 70psi
> with the drill on low speed{18v}. Took awhile too get oil up the push rods.
> If your AL original pump has no scores in the housing, go with it.,,,,I'll
> think of more later. Toes are warmed up,, working on the stainless,braided
> new brake lines,,,,
>
> good luck,,,,PL
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: Cadillac 500 Tips for Ken [message #70238 is a reply to message #70182] |
Sat, 09 January 2010 16:38 |
g.winger
Messages: 792
Registered: February 2008
Location: Warrenton,Missouri
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ken,,,#1 Deburing the block,,,,
Yes, I debured ALOT on the outside of the block and heads,,,Yes,,the surface's of the machined bottom end is what cut up my hands. Brushes wern't long enough.
#2,,,Cam bore Deburing,,,,Yes,,,when I put in the cam bearings in it shaved off babbit off the OUTSIDE of the bearing. Posted a Q. on the Cadillac power Forum and one guy said to take it back and hove the machinist do it. Some one else said they had the same problem. Debured all around two of them AND debured MORE in the crankcase area so when I cleaned it it woud be kinder on my hands. Also I used Simple Green in a flower waterer the first time but its hard to pour 2 gal. and scrub at the same time. 2nd time and this summer when my daughter spun 2 rod bearings on a 3.8 ford I used S>G> in a fetilizer sprayer strait. Hooked up to hot out of the washer hookup, set sprayer on high and scrubed. Sprayer works great but its really a 2 man job. Got alot of crud out of the oil gallerys. I also drilled and tapped the plugs in the lifter valley. Don't run those plugs in too deep.
#3 Search the Cadillac Forum for water bypass. The tube runs from the back of the heads ,up high to the front. I teed the 2 togeather with 3/8 tubing. Ran it into a raised thermo housing after the thermostat.
#4 Made my own from scratch. Details later,,no pics yet.
#5 Sludge. Remove Engine,trans,diff from a 72 eldo conv. mounted engine to stand and BENT the stand. Drained oil. {overnite},,removed pan,,,oil gone,,1/2 to 3/4 inch of sludge in pan. Would of destroyed motor i'm sure. cleaned,remove rust and painted. Getting the crud out from under the front sump baffle was tough.
#6 Don't have an opinion on gold pumps, no info on them.
PL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cadillac 500 Tips for Ken [message #70242 is a reply to message #70219] |
Sat, 09 January 2010 16:49 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Also the long oil pick up tube need a O ring . Lot of people neglect
it and have low pressure with air bubbles into the system.
Thrust bearings can use little modification to let some oil bleed through.
On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Ken Henderson <ken0henderson@gmail.com> wrote:
> Since I don't yet have mine, I don't know the true answer, but from the
> little I've heard, I think the answer is a curt, "We don't talk about that."
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Shan Rose <defconfx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> a quick question, whats the average MPG with the caddy motor? is it about
>> the same as the olds 455? hows drivability compared to the 455?
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
> _______________________________________________
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>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cadillac 500 Tips for Ken [message #70265 is a reply to message #70251] |
Sat, 09 January 2010 19:24 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
This is interesting; Steve noted that the bearings in the Caddy 500 he built
did not have the notches but the one I had did. It also had chamfered edges
where the bearing halves joined. I am reasonably confident the engine had
not been rebuilt.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Sunday, 10 January 2010 10:49 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cadillac 500 Tips for Ken
Jim,
When we tore the 500 down Larry was particularly interested in the state of
the thrust bearing because his first 500 failed there. This one had notches
in the thrust face of the bearing similar to those we put in the 455's.
I'll remember to be sure the oil pick up is properly sealed.
Thanks,
Ken H.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cadillac 500 Tips for Ken [message #70267 is a reply to message #70233] |
Sat, 09 January 2010 19:31 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
The Big Inch Cadillac (BIC) book gives instructions on how to modify the oil
pump. I'd scan it for you but it's in Double Trouble's clothes closet in
Humble!
I asked the Cad Co if I needed their Gold Series pump for the low revving
LPG engine or if I could just follow the instructions to modify the stock
one as per the BIC book and was told that the guy that built that Caddy
didn't know what he was doing!
Jerry Potter asked if I needed an oil pump and I told him I was going to
modify it as per the BIC book and he said that would be fine for my
application.
See why I listen to Jerry!
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Sunday, 10 January 2010 8:57 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cadillac 500 Tips for Ken
Paul,
Seems as if Cadillac put the oil pump where it could be removed for a good
reason! A good friend (& excellent mechanic) lost the oil pump on his
native voyage with his 500. Luckily he had an electric fuel pump powered
through an oil pressure switch which shut the engine down before it was
damaged.
I noticed when we tore the engine down that there were light score marks
from the gears -- no bad for a 75,000+ mile engine, but enough that I
noticed them. I'll pay more attention & perhaps follow your lead. What do
you think of Cad Co's Gold Series pump? Do we even need it?
I don't even want to THINK about temperatures like you've got -- the 41*F
we've got right now is far below my tolerance level. :-)
Thanks,
Ken
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cadillac 500 Tips for Ken [message #70293 is a reply to message #70233] |
Sat, 09 January 2010 22:15 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
To twist an old phrase; Friends don't let friends buy from Cadco.
There are basically only two sources of oil pumps for a Cadillac.
Aluminum pumps are original equipment(no longer available) and
the replacements are cast iron(all from the same source) and most
of the iron ones are fornicated vertically. Take the piston out
and
polish it hone the bore slightly and work with the die grinder on
anything in there that looks like it could hang the piston. I
didn't
learn this until my first motor only lasted about ten minutes
into
the cam break-in. I made sure the second one was good.
A little shim down in the bottom of the piston adds a little
spring
tension and oil pressure. Actually, get a copy of Doc
Frohmader's
book "the Big Inch Cadillac" and you'll find a lot of good-sense
tips. One of my favorites was replacing all the cup plugs in the
oiling system with screw-in pipe plugs.
The Cad only has 1/8" pipe plugs for water drains which is not
a good idea, in my opinion. I drilled and tapped them to 1/4"
and
screwed in a 45° street ell and then a 1/4" valve, so I could
drain .
By the way, Paul described the water flow backwards. It goes in
the normal flow until it gets back to the front of the head,
where it
drops down into the block for the crossover. Water never flows
into the intake manifold. which is nice.
Back to the oil pump, Cadillac uses the longest gears in the
industry,
so it is impossible to have an increased volume oil pump. The
guy
that started that BS is the same guy who ground the name off of
an
Edelbrock intake, painted it black and charged an exorbitant
price
as his own supertrick special.
Gary Kosier
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Henderson" <ken0henderson@gmail.com>
To: "gmclist" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cadillac 500 Tips for Ken
> Paul,
>
> Seems as if Cadillac put the oil pump where it could be removed
> for a good
> reason! A good friend (& excellent mechanic) lost the oil pump
> on his
> native voyage with his 500. Luckily he had an electric fuel
> pump powered
> through an oil pressure switch which shut the engine down
> before it was
> damaged.
>
> I noticed when we tore the engine down that there were light
> score marks
> from the gears -- no bad for a 75,000+ mile engine, but enough
> that I
> noticed them. I'll pay more attention & perhaps follow your
> lead. What do
> you think of Cad Co's Gold Series pump? Do we even need it?
>
> I don't even want to THINK about temperatures like you've
> got -- the 41*F
> we've got right now is far below my tolerance level. :-)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken
>
> On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Paul Leavitt
> <leavittpaul@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Ken, go ahead and ask. Also, some of the guys on the
>> Cadillac Power forum
>> had problems with oil pumps. NO OIL PRESSURE. They would
>> remove the pump and
>> the plunger would be stuck open. I spent 2.5 hours on the
>> pump. Noticed that
>> te edges of the gears would "catch" if I rotated it in my
>> hand. I took a
>> needle file too the sharp edges of each gear, then 1500, 2000.
>> Also noticed
>> marks on the block from the edges of the gears. Gasked should
>> be .007
>> thou... Used 1500 on a slotted dowel in a drill motor on the
>> plunger bore
>> until very smooth. Cleaned each time of course. When priming I
>> got 70psi
>> with the drill on low speed{18v}. Took awhile too get oil up
>> the push rods.
>> If your AL original pump has no scores in the housing, go with
>> it.,,,,I'll
>> think of more later. Toes are warmed up,, working on the
>> stainless,braided
>> new brake lines,,,,
>>
>> good luck,,,,PL
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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