Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » SS water heater
| SS water heater [message #367231] |
Sun, 17 October 2021 08:20  |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Well had no hot water on our camping outing at a local state park outside of KC. I think it was certainly our doing. We still have the light switch power switch for the hot water that I think we forgot to turn off. The waterheater is the round SS tank that Jim K sells. Very well made tank! So my question are, is the heating element something I can get at the local hardware store? I checked Jim’s web page and did not see anything on it. Second, is there a way you guys setup your water heater to come on only when the temp of water is needed. Doing that might help with not burning a element up when I forget to shut it off.
Thanks,
TG
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: SS water heater [message #367232 is a reply to message #367231] |
Sun, 17 October 2021 11:42  |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Pretty much all the parts for that waterheater other then the tank itself and the blue ends, can be bought cheap at hardware or big box home improvement store. Many people buy a 220v element.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: SS water heater [message #367233 is a reply to message #367231] |
Sun, 17 October 2021 12:18 |
rvanwin
Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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tgeiger wrote on Sun, 17 October 2021 08:20Well had no hot water on our camping outing at a local state park outside of KC. I think it was certainly our doing. We still have the light switch power switch for the hot water that I think we forgot to turn off. The waterheater is the round SS tank that Jim K sells. Very well made tank! So my question are, is the heating element something I can get at the local hardware store? I checked Jim’s web page and did not see anything on it. Second, is there a way you guys setup your water heater to come on only when the temp of water is needed. Doing that might help with not burning a element up when I forget to shut it off.
Thanks,
TG
Tom, The element can be obtained at any hardware or big box store. The hot water heater should have a thermostat that will control the level of heat only running the element when it calls for a heat cycle. When you take the cover off of the front of the water heater you can get at the element. Also, you can check to make sure you have the thermostat. The wiring should go to a set of terminals above the element with wires that then connect up to the element. If the main wires go directly to the element then perhaps someone removed or failed to install the thermostat (a no, no). The most common issue that I have experienced with the element burning out is to turn the hot water heater after I have winterized by draining the tank. The element will not survive if energized with no water.
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
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| Re: SS water heater [message #367234 is a reply to message #367233] |
Sun, 17 October 2021 12:22 |
rvanwin
Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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rvanwin wrote on Sun, 17 October 2021 12:18tgeiger wrote on Sun, 17 October 2021 08:20Well had no hot water on our camping outing at a local state park outside of KC. I think it was certainly our doing. We still have the light switch power switch for the hot water that I think we forgot to turn off. The waterheater is the round SS tank that Jim K sells. Very well made tank! So my question are, is the heating element something I can get at the local hardware store? I checked Jim’s web page and did not see anything on it. Second, is there a way you guys setup your water heater to come on only when the temp of water is needed. Doing that might help with not burning a element up when I forget to shut it off.
Thanks,
TG
Tom, The element can be obtained at any hardware or big box store. The hot water heater should have a thermostat that will control the level of heat only running the element when it calls for a heat cycle. When you take the cover off of the front of the water heater you can get at the element. Also, you can check to make sure you have the thermostat. The wiring should go to a set of terminals above the element with wires that then connect up to the element. If the main wires go directly to the element then perhaps someone removed or failed to install the thermostat (a no, no). The most common issue that I have experienced with the element burning out is to turn the hot water heater after I have winterized by draining the tank. The element will not survive if energized with no water.
I replaced the light switch for the hot water heater with a timer turning it on prior to needing hot water then it turns off automatically.
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
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| [GMCnet] Re: SS water heater [message #367235 is a reply to message #367234] |
Sun, 17 October 2021 13:13 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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All you need is to call us as we get back to all with technical assistance.
you guys make it sound as thou were only good for parts.
Being Sunday, I already assisted three people solve some technical issues.
You do not get that from any other suppliers.
On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 10:22 AM Randy Van Winkle
wrote:
> rvanwin wrote on Sun, 17 October 2021 12:18
>> tgeiger wrote on Sun, 17 October 2021 08:20
>>> Well had no hot water on our camping outing at a local state park
> outside of KC. I think it was certainly our doing. We still have the light
>>> switch power switch for the hot water that I think we forgot to turn
> off. The waterheater is the round SS tank that Jim K sells. Very well made
>>> tank! So my question are, is the heating element something I can get
> at the local hardware store? I checked Jim’s web page and did not see
>>> anything on it. Second, is there a way you guys setup your water
> heater to come on only when the temp of water is needed. Doing that might
> help
>>> with not burning a element up when I forget to shut it off.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> TG
>>
>> Tom, The element can be obtained at any hardware or big box store. The
> hot water heater should have a thermostat that will control the level of
>> heat only running the element when it calls for a heat cycle. When you
> take the cover off of the front of the water heater you can get at the
>> element. Also, you can check to make sure you have the thermostat. The
> wiring should go to a set of terminals above the element with wires that
>> then connect up to the element. If the main wires go directly to the
> element then perhaps someone removed or failed to install the thermostat (a
> no,
>> no). The most common issue that I have experienced with the element
> burning out is to turn the hot water heater after I have winterized by
> draining
>> the tank. The element will not survive if energized with no water.
>
> I replaced the light switch for the hot water heater with a timer turning
> it on prior to needing hot water then it turns off automatically.
>
> --
> Randy & Margie
> '77 Eleganza II '403'
> Battlefield, MO
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Re: SS water heater [message #367236 is a reply to message #367235] |
Sun, 17 October 2021 15:55 |
cadelec
Messages: 303
Registered: September 2011
Location: Brisbane Australia
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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If replacing with a 220 volt element make sure it is a approximately 4000 Watts
Trevor
Brisbane Australia
Siesta Koala 76 Edgemont (old Bobby Moores)
71 Cadillac Eldo Convert
58 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham Project
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| [GMCnet] Re: SS water heater [message #367238 is a reply to message #367237] |
Sun, 17 October 2021 17:53 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Mac,
I'm glad that some of you are still on the ball and able to recall the
basic physics and apply them.
In the last 12 years, I found myself buying into some theory that was
opposite of what we knew in engineering.
At least at 79 , I'm still moving around.😃
On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 3:22 PM D C _Mac_ Macdonald
wrote:
> Ohm's Law will tell you that with half voltage
> applied, half current will result. That means
> approximately 1000 Watts of heating will occur.
> That is plenty enough to heat your water and
> give a far greater lifespan of the heating element,
> probably at least ten times as long as a 120 Volt
> element.
>
> You still can't run your electric water heater without
> water in it!
>
> D C "Mac" Macdonald
> 19076 ex-Palm Beach
> Oklahoma City, OK
>
> Member GMCMI and GMC Classics
>
> ________________________________
> From: Trevor Pordage
> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 15:55
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] Re: SS water heater
>
> If replacing with a 220 volt element make sure it is a approximately 4000
> Watts
> --
> Trevor
> Brisbane Australia
> Siesta Koala 76 Edgemont (old Bobby Moores)
> 71 Cadillac Eldo Convert
> 58 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham Project
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| [GMCnet] Re: SS water heater [message #367239 is a reply to message #367238] |
Sun, 17 October 2021 18:16 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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Hi, Jim.
I'm 83 and my wife Judy is 81! Still kicking around here!
D C "Mac" Macdonald
Amateur Radio K2GKK
Since 30 November '53
USAF and FAA, Retired
Member GMCMI & Classics
Oklahoma City, OK
"The Money Pit"
TZE166V101966
'76 ex-Palm Beach
k2gkk + hotmail dot com
________________________________
From: Jim Kanomata
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 17:53
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Re: SS water heater
Mac,
I'm glad that some of you are still on the ball and able to recall the
basic physics and apply them.
In the last 12 years, I found myself buying into some theory that was
opposite of what we knew in engineering.
At least at 79 , I'm still moving around.😃
On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 3:22 PM D C _Mac_ Macdonald
wrote:
> Ohm's Law will tell you that with half voltage
> applied, half current will result. That means
> approximately 1000 Watts of heating will occur.
> That is plenty enough to heat your water and
> give a far greater lifespan of the heating element,
> probably at least ten times as long as a 120 Volt
> element.
>
> You still can't run your electric water heater without
> water in it!
>
> D C "Mac" Macdonald
> 19076 ex-Palm Beach
> Oklahoma City, OK
>
> Member GMCMI and GMC Classics
>
> ________________________________
> From: Trevor Pordage
> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 15:55
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] Re: SS water heater
>
> If replacing with a 220 volt element make sure it is a approximately 4000
> Watts
> --
> Trevor
> Brisbane Australia
> Siesta Koala 76 Edgemont (old Bobby Moore's)
> 71 Cadillac Eldo Convert
> 58 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham Project
> _______________________________________________
--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| [GMCnet] Re: SS water heater [message #367240 is a reply to message #367239] |
Sun, 17 October 2021 20:45 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Mac,
Keep it up.
On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 4:16 PM D C _Mac_ Macdonald
wrote:
> Hi, Jim.
>
> I'm 83 and my wife Judy is 81! Still kicking around here!
>
> D C "Mac" Macdonald
> Amateur Radio K2GKK
> Since 30 November '53
> USAF and FAA, Retired
> Member GMCMI & Classics
> Oklahoma City, OK
> "The Money Pit"
> TZE166V101966
> '76 ex-Palm Beach
> k2gkk + hotmail dot com
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jim Kanomata
> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 17:53
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] Re: SS water heater
>
> Mac,
> I'm glad that some of you are still on the ball and able to recall the
> basic physics and apply them.
> In the last 12 years, I found myself buying into some theory that was
> opposite of what we knew in engineering.
> At least at 79 , I'm still moving around.😃
>
> On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 3:22 PM D C _Mac_ Macdonald
> wrote:
>
>> Ohm's Law will tell you that with half voltage
>> applied, half current will result. That means
>> approximately 1000 Watts of heating will occur.
>> That is plenty enough to heat your water and
>> give a far greater lifespan of the heating element,
>> probably at least ten times as long as a 120 Volt
>> element.
>>
>> You still can't run your electric water heater without
>> water in it!
>>
>> D C "Mac" Macdonald
>> 19076 ex-Palm Beach
>> Oklahoma City, OK
>>
>> Member GMCMI and GMC Classics
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Trevor Pordage
>> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 15:55
>> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: [GMCnet] Re: SS water heater
>>
>> If replacing with a 220 volt element make sure it is a approximately 4000
>> Watts
>> --
>> Trevor
>> Brisbane Australia
>> Siesta Koala 76 Edgemont (old Bobby Moore's)
>> 71 Cadillac Eldo Convert
>> 58 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham Project
>> _______________________________________________
> --
> Jim Kanomata ASE
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> 1-800-752-7502
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: SS water heater [message #367241 is a reply to message #367231] |
Mon, 18 October 2021 02:29 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I think you guys are getting confused by the various switches and thermostats available and used in electric water heaters.
First, the normal light switch type not mounted on the heater itself and is for completely turning off the heater. If you do not do this when the tank is drained (empty) you willl burn uo the heating element.
Second, there are two types that are mounted directly to the heater'e shell. They monitor the water and heater shell temperature. They are usually called high and low temp switches.
The high temp switch is a safety device and usually shuts off the electric if the temperature exceeds 180F degrees and usually has a push button reset. You do NOT want one of these installed if you have the engine coolant also heating your water. This is especially true if you have a 195F engine thermostat. (I use a 180 in mine.) So if you have a reset button, throw it away and replace it with the following type.
The last type is the low temperature type. This one turns on when the water temp is too cold allowing the heater element to run and heat your water. (It does not have a reset button) This one turns on when the water is below it's set temperature and usually heats the water to 120 to 135 degrees. Then it shuts off. Some brands allow some temperature adjustment. So you definitely want a low temperature type mounted against the tank of your water heater.
You can get these at your local Lowes, Home Depot, and Menards stores. I just saw a refresh kit on line at Lowes that included two 4000 watt 220v elements, and both switches for $29.00 (Throw the high temp switch away.)
I believe it takes a 1.5" socket to replace the element.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: SS water heater [message #367242 is a reply to message #367234] |
Mon, 18 October 2021 07:51 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Randy, I will have to take the bathroom hot water cover off to get a look at the end of it. I’m pretty sure I was the cause of this and will more likely have to replace the element. I would like to put a timer on the power switch because I just forget. I do have the engine heater hose running back to it and I believe I have a 195 thermostat. I guess I’m not understanding the 220v upgrade? If it requires a 50amp source I thought our coaches are 120v 30amp? Not sure I want to exceed the original design intent of the wiring of the coach. I’m not a electrical guy which makes me more cautious of electrical changes. The current element gave plenty of hot hot water.
Thanks all,
TG
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: SS water heater [message #367244 is a reply to message #367242] |
Mon, 18 October 2021 09:17 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Notes are in line...
tgeiger wrote on Mon, 18 October 2021 08:51Thanks Randy, <SNIP>
I guess I’m not understanding the 220v upgrade? **You aren't changing the voltage, just the element rating.
If it requires a 50amp source I thought our coaches are 120v 30amp? **You won't use it with 220V - Just the 120 that is there.
Not sure I want to exceed the original design intent of the wiring of the coach. **You will actually be reducing the power draw of the heater.
I’m not a electrical guy which makes me more cautious of electrical changes. **Read what KenB or KenH write it is good.
The current element gave plenty of hot hot water. **If you install the 4K@240V element, you will still get nearly the same amount of hot water.
Thanks all,
TG
So, go for it
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
[Updated on: Mon, 18 October 2021 09:18] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: SS water heater [message #367252 is a reply to message #367242] |
Mon, 18 October 2021 19:45 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Without confusing you with the math. If you install the 240 volt 4000 watt element it will only consume 1/4 of the power it is designed to handle (1000 watts) when connected to 120 volts.
They cost about the same and are more robust and less likely to ever burn up. The thing is designed to generate 4000 watts of heat and is only being used at 1/4 (1000 watt) capacity.
It Will probably still burn up if you try to operate without water in the tank very long because it relies on the water in the tank to carry away the heat it generates.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: SS water heater [message #367255 is a reply to message #367252] |
Mon, 18 October 2021 21:12 |
Silvernort
Messages: 95
Registered: June 2019
Location: Rock Springs, WI
Karma: 0
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BTW on a non-electrical note; when you install the heating element, look at the seat on the tank. The SS one I got from JimK had a conical seat. The heating element Menards sold included a square section O ring. That is for a flat seat, if you have the conical seat you need a round section O ring and it can't be too big in section. I don't remember the size anymore, so just measure the width of the seat and use a (very) little faucet grease or similar so the heating elements gland nut will compress it into the seat. Square section O ring will probably blow out with water pressure as will a round section that is too large.
Yeah, learned this the hard way...
Cheers
Shane Harvey
1973 26' "Packer Backer", 1976 Palm Beach, 1965 Dart
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| Re: SS water heater [message #367257 is a reply to message #367231] |
Tue, 19 October 2021 05:15 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Shane, lol it was like you were standing over my shoulder watching me struggle with this heating element not sealing. Hope you plugged your ears. Anyhow, very timely post cause that is exactly the trouble I was encountering. So I’ll pull the tank back out and remove the element and check that.
So just a note on the comment on changing out the thermostat to a lower thermostat. The one I bought from Lowes did not match up with mounting plate of the old one. The old thermostat mounting plate seemed to be mounted to tank by some kind of adhesive RTV rather than a couple of screws like the new Lowes thermo does. So I read the way to test the thermo with a meter and I got a 0 reading on resistance on the old one so I think its fine. So I’m going to chase down this o-ring issue on the heating element. This does bring to mind having a red light added to the interior area of the water heater area to indicate power still being delivered to the water heater?? This might help me remember its on and a quick verification power is getting over there. Anyhow, thought it might help.
This might also be the time to replace the 5/8” engine heating hoses now I’m in there. Is it best to feed the new hose from the bathroom back out or from outside up into the bathroom? I remember Jim K said to get some double barbed hose couplings to help with the hose pull through those rough areas.
Thanks,
TG
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: SS water heater [message #367259 is a reply to message #367231] |
Tue, 19 October 2021 08:46 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Went back to my postings and found this from Emery.
Thanks Emery!
egistered: January 2011
Karma: 3
Senior Member
add to buddy list
ignore all messages by this user
Tom
I disconnected it from the water heater in the bathroom and then drilled a small hole through the hose about 1/2” from the end. I drilled the holes into the new hose. I put a piece of wire through the holes and attached the two hoses together with the wire. I then wrapped it with duct tape and then pulled the hose through the wall by pulling the old hose from below while feeding in the new hose in the bathroom. If you just tape it without using the wire it will probably pull apart inside the wall.
Emery Stora
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: SS water heater [message #367264 is a reply to message #367231] |
Tue, 19 October 2021 16:23 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Is it just me or does Menards have the best plumbing department? I went to Westlakes, Lowes & HomeDepo but found what I needed at Menards. The heating element had the square type washer but this brand had it aside inside the package so that you could use another type of washer. It turned out to be a round 1 1/4” ID rubber washer that worked. I have other slight leaking issues that I’ll have to clean up. PO used a bunch of threaded adaptors that multiplied they chance of leakage, which it does so must have been done before Sharkbite came along. Best stuff in plumbing IMHO. Anyhow, have the water-heater working again. Will finish up the plumbing tomorrow with Sharkbite stuff if I can.
Thanks all,
TG
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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