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Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney
[GMCnet] Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #362962] Mon, 22 March 2021 22:04 Go to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Or, how I’ve been spending my Covid home time.

Plan:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68107-new-shop.html

Rear:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68105-new-shop.html

Front:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68106-new-shop.html

No more losing screws in the gravel driveway.

Pre-construction meeting tomorrow. Permit issued on Friday.

You don’t even want to know how much this costs in Northern Virginia.

Radiant heat in the floor, 2” of sprayed-on closed cell foam insulation.

“Loading Dock” inspired by Ken H.

Rick “ready to get back in circulation” Denney

--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #362966 is a reply to message #362962] Tue, 23 March 2021 07:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
Senior Member
Future work rallies will be held at Chez Denney

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
Re: [GMCnet] Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #362970 is a reply to message #362966] Tue, 23 March 2021 09:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard RV   United States
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
Senior Member
jhbridges wrote on Tue, 23 March 2021 05:53
Future work rallies will be held at Chez Denney

--johnny
... and everyone will be parked inside! 😉

Looks good, Rick!

Richard


'77 Birchaven TZE...777; '76 Palm Beach under construction; ‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
Re: [GMCnet] Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #362971 is a reply to message #362962] Tue, 23 March 2021 09:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   Canada
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
Senior Member
Rick,

I won't say I'm not somewhat jealous, I do have a heatable barn that I can get the coach into. It is nothing like that.

In the past, I did build a pole barn shop and severely modify a large garage as a workspace, I will make a few very important suggestions that are cheap at this point but will save you endless grief down the road.

Plan underground services to the structure now. Have the concrete guy put at least two 4" pipes up through the slab inside the "projected" wall and with the elbows aimed at the dwelling. These are for: the electric service to the shop, Cat6 for the WAP in there, city water, compressed air back to the dwelling, a phone line (maybe not important any more), RG6 for the TV in the shop.

Run at least 100A service to the shop if the dwelling service will accommodate it, 200 would be better. Put the breaker panel for it out there.
Wire the lights on two circuits on opposite sides of the phase. (This makes it much tougher to put out all the lights. This is a BTDT.) Buy a box with space for more circuits than you can possibly imagine ever wanting.

You can open the big door with a normal plain-jane door operator, but you will have to look up the extension kit.

If I think of anything else, I will try to remember to get it to you.

I lost my father over thirty years ago and I still miss him. I hope the cleanup is not too tough.

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #362972 is a reply to message #362962] Tue, 23 March 2021 10:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rvanwin is currently offline  rvanwin   United States
Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Richard Denney wrote on Mon, 22 March 2021 22:04
Or, how I’ve been spending my Covid home time.

Plan:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68107-new-shop.html

Rear:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68105-new-shop.html

Front:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68106-new-shop.html

No more losing screws in the gravel driveway.

Pre-construction meeting tomorrow. Permit issued on Friday.

You don’t even want to know how much this costs in Northern Virginia.

Radiant heat in the floor, 2” of sprayed-on closed cell foam insulation.

“Loading Dock” inspired by Ken H.

Rick “ready to get back in circulation” Denney


I spent my COVID time in a similar fashion but just a bit ahead of your schedule. This is my dream barn. I had an Amish crew doing the work but I was able to do a lot of the work myself including excavation, plumbing, electrical, and the inside break-room construction. I did have the exterior walls sprayed with 2" closed-cell foam and plan on filling the remaining cavities with fiberglass blow-in insulation for additional R-value. And the last major finish-up project is to "finish" the shop floor.

I saw KenH's setup for working under the coach but I didn't have the terrain for that approach so I went with a 4-post lift. Greatest thing I ever did - no more crawling around on the floor underneath with little room to do what needs doing.

Here are some pics of my "COVID project". Be happy to share any experiences if you have questions.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qhUtmMLxgz6Twyy28


Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
Re: [GMCnet] Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #362974 is a reply to message #362962] Tue, 23 March 2021 10:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carl S. is currently offline  Carl S.   United States
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
Senior Member

Nice!

Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
[GMCnet] Re: Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #362976 is a reply to message #362972] Tue, 23 March 2021 11:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
richshoop is currently offline  richshoop
Messages: 190
Registered: April 2017
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Be sure to label all those valves for your radiant heating system. If not for yourself, then for your family. Us techies forget that not everyone has a technical bent. Labelling has to be explained enough that a 10 - 12 year old can adjust things.

> On 03/23/2021 8:09 AM Randy Van Winkle wrote:
>
>
> Richard Denney wrote on Mon, 22 March 2021 22:04
>> Or, how I’ve been spending my Covid home time.
>>
>> Plan:
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68107-new-shop.html
>>
>> Rear:
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68105-new-shop.html
>>
>> Front:
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68106-new-shop.html
>>
>> No more losing screws in the gravel driveway.
>>
>> Pre-construction meeting tomorrow. Permit issued on Friday.
>>
>> You don’t even want to know how much this costs in Northern Virginia.
>>
>> Radiant heat in the floor, 2” of sprayed-on closed cell foam insulation.
>>
>> “Loading Dock” inspired by Ken H.
>>
>> Rick “ready to get back in circulation” Denney
>
> I spent my COVID time in a similar fashion but just a bit ahead of your schedule. This is my dream barn. I had an Amish crew doing the work but I was
> able to do a lot of the work myself including excavation, plumbing, electrical, and the inside break-room construction. I did have the exterior walls
> sprayed with 2" closed-cell foam and plan on filling the remaining cavities with fiberglass blow-in insulation for additional R-value. And the last
> major finish-up project is to "finish" the shop floor.
>
> I saw KenH's setup for working under the coach but I didn't have the terrain for that approach so I went with a 4-post lift. Greatest thing I ever did
> - no more crawling around on the floor underneath with little room to do what needs doing.
>
> Here are some pics of my "COVID project". Be happy to share any experiences if you have questions.
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/qhUtmMLxgz6Twyy28
>
> --
> Randy & Margie
> '77 Eleganza II '403'
> Battlefield, MO
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
Re: [GMCnet] Re: Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #362981 is a reply to message #362976] Tue, 23 March 2021 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rjw   United States
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
Senior Member
I am envious as well. My new garage/shop pales in comparison to the ones just mentioned.

I am still finishing my 28x32 GMC garage. That was the maximum I could do on my 1 1/2 acre lot due to terrain, easements and zoning. I still had to get a zoning variance to be able to build it.

It is stick build, since the neighbors or city would not allow a pole barn. I built it with 10' side walls, scissor trusses that provide a 12 foot ceiling over the coach. 10' x 10' insulated garage door with opener, 3 large double hung windows and 2 skylights plus one "man Door". I installed 10" fiberglass insulation in the ceiling and 4" in the walls behind fire code drywall.

It has radiant tubing in the floor that is currently not hooked up to a heat source. I do have a 80,000 BTU forced air furnace hung from the ceiling. I have a wall air conditioner/heat pump that so far does the trick in the summer. 100 amp service with many 120 and 240 volt outlets as well as 30 and 50 amp for the coach. Also, I installed plumbing for water and sewer with a dump station inside and outside. I have 2 2" conduits that run from the shop to the attic in my house for the Ethernet(4 POE security cameras, computers, streaming TV and WIFI access point}and coax for cable/antenna TV. I hung 14 4FT LED Utility Shop Light from the ceiling. Those are really bright.

This past winter I did not winterize the coach for the first time in 22 years. That was a nice plus. I keep the heat set to 42F when I am not out there working. When I want to work, I use my PC or iPhone to set the temp to 65 via Nest thermostat. In the winter it only takes 20 minutes or so before it becomes comfortable enough to work with short sleeves.

Its so nice to be working on a GMC project and not have to worry about the weather (will it or won't it rain) and play beat the clock putting my tools away if it does start to rain.


Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com

Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
Re: [GMCnet] Re: Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #362983 is a reply to message #362981] Tue, 23 March 2021 13:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
C Boyd is currently offline  C Boyd   United States
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
Senior Member
Hi Rick, I’ll pass along what Blaine Merrel told me. “ it ain’t big enough!”
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5110-detached-garage.html




rjw wrote on Tue, 23 March 2021 14:43
I am envious as well. My new garage/shop pales in comparison to the ones just mentioned.

I am still finishing my 28x32 GMC garage. That was the maximum I could do on my 1 1/2 acre lot due to terrain, easements and zoning. I still had to get a zoning variance to be able to build it.

It is stick build, since the neighbors or city would not allow a pole barn. I built it with 10' side walls, scissor trusses that provide a 12 foot ceiling over the coach. 10' x 10' insulated garage door with opener, 3 large double hung windows and 2 skylights plus one "man Door". I installed 10" fiberglass insulation in the ceiling and 4" in the walls behind fire code drywall.

It has radiant tubing in the floor that is currently not hooked up to a heat source. I do have a 80,000 BTU forced air furnace hung from the ceiling. I have a wall air conditioner/heat pump that so far does the trick in the summer. 100 amp service with many 120 and 240 volt outlets as well as 30 and 50 amp for the coach. Also, I installed plumbing for water and sewer with a dump station inside and outside. I have 2 2" conduits that run from the shop to the attic in my house for the Ethernet(4 POE security cameras, computers, streaming TV and WIFI access point}and coax for cable/antenna TV. I hung 14 4FT LED Utility Shop Light from the ceiling. Those are really bright.

This past winter I did not winterize the coach for the first time in 22 years. That was a nice plus. I keep the heat set to 42F when I am not out there working. When I want to work, I use my PC or iPhone to set the temp to 65 via Nest thermostat. In the winter it only takes 20 minutes or so before it becomes comfortable enough to work with short sleeves.

Its so nice to be working on a GMC project and not have to worry about the weather (will it or won't it rain) and play beat the clock putting my tools away if it does start to rain.


C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
[GMCnet] Re: Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #362984 is a reply to message #362976] Tue, 23 March 2021 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Oooh--just the thing I usually forget to do. Good advice..

Rick "nine branches in the radiant heat systems" Denney

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 12:23 PM RICHARD/MARLI SHOOP
wrote:

> Be sure to label all those valves for your radiant heating system. If not
> for yourself, then for your family. Us techies forget that not everyone has
> a technical bent. Labelling has to be explained enough that a 10 - 12 year
> old can adjust things.
>
>
>

--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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[GMCnet] Re: Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #362985 is a reply to message #362972] Tue, 23 March 2021 13:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Randy, that's awesome. You have parking for two coaches--I didn't want to
make that a possibility so I used shorter doors for the rest of it.

I'm not doing the excavation--I just don't have time. I will put down the
radiant heat Pex, and I will do the electrical work. I'm not closing the
door to a lift, but I also see it as reducing flexibility.

I did not mention before--the design uses attic-box roof trusses that will
provide an 8-foot ceiling room that is 16x60 feet. Eventually, I'll enclose
that a bit more deliberately and air-condition it. Yes, stairs...but better
that than wasting that space. I'll probably rig up a cargo lift using a
power winch.

14-foot ceiling in the main space.

Rick "will call if I run into issues" Denney


I spent my COVID time in a similar fashion but just a bit ahead of your
> schedule. This is my dream barn. I had an Amish crew doing the work but I
> was
> able to do a lot of the work myself including excavation, plumbing,
> electrical, and the inside break-room construction. I did have the exterior
> walls
> sprayed with 2" closed-cell foam and plan on filling the remaining
> cavities with fiberglass blow-in insulation for additional R-value. And the
> last
> major finish-up project is to "finish" the shop floor.
>
> I saw KenH's setup for working under the coach but I didn't have the
> terrain for that approach so I went with a 4-post lift. Greatest thing I
> ever did
> - no more crawling around on the floor underneath with little room to do
> what needs doing.
>
> Here are some pics of my "COVID project". Be happy to share any
> experiences if you have questions.
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/qhUtmMLxgz6Twyy28
>
> --
> Randy & Margie
> '77 Eleganza II '403'
> Battlefield, MO
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>


--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:

[GMCnet] Re: Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #362986 is a reply to message #362971] Tue, 23 March 2021 14:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Matt, I have a power-company hub transformer in my yard, 35 feet from the
corner of this barn. I will be paying an electrician just enough to install
a 300-amp panel and add a separately metered service from the power
company. I'll run all the branches myself. I have no interior finish on the
walls, so I can attach conduit runs wherever I want them. I'll be able to
go through walls as needed, too. I'm planning two 30-amp RV ports outside,
one inside, plus another two for bigger tools, and yet another one for a
compressor. Then, maybe five 20-amp branches, one for the attic, a 240V
20-amp branch for the attic, and lighting (I plan to use large LED bay
lights, maybe 8 of them). The heading system requires two 60's and a 30. I
just don't see how less than 300 amps could make me happy :)

But I think I can go through the walls for all that. The power company will
want the meter can on the outside in any case, and then punch through the
wall to an interior panel.

Rick "those LED bay lights are BRIGHT" Denney

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 10:36 AM Matt Colie wrote:

> Rick,
>
> I won't say I'm not somewhat jealous, I do have a heatable barn that I can
> get the coach into. It is nothing like that.
>
> In the past, I did build a pole barn shop and severely modify a large
> garage as a workspace, I will make a few very important suggestions that are
> cheap at this point but will save you endless grief down the road.
>
> Plan underground services to the structure now. Have the concrete guy put
> at least two 4" pipes up through the slab inside the "projected" wall and
> with the elbows aimed at the dwelling. These are for: the electric
> service to the shop, Cat6 for the WAP in there, city water, compressed air
> back
> to the dwelling, a phone line (maybe not important any more), RG6 for the
> TV in the shop.
>
> Run at least 100A service to the shop if the dwelling service will
> accommodate it, 200 would be better. Put the breaker panel for it out
> there.
> Wire the lights on two circuits on opposite sides of the phase. (This
> makes it much tougher to put out all the lights. This is a BTDT.) Buy a box
> with space for more circuits than you can possibly imagine ever wanting.
>
> You can open the big door with a normal plain-jane door operator, but you
> will have to look up the extension kit.
>
> If I think of anything else, I will try to remember to get it to you.
>
> I lost my father over thirty years ago and I still miss him. I hope the
> cleanup is not too tough.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL,
> GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum
> Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>


--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
[GMCnet] Re: Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #362987 is a reply to message #362983] Tue, 23 March 2021 14:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Chuck--it will never be big enough. That's a given. My first requirement
was being able to perform test drives in the motorhome without having to
use reverse gear. But even six acres wasn't enough for that one.

But--4999 square feet or less of disturbed soil does not require a grading
permit or solid and erosion control plan.

And maximum height above grade of 35 feet--I'm right at that limit given
the extra 3.5 feet of exposed foundation wall on the back.

And $80 a square foot does give one pause.

The primary use for this structure will be agricultural. We will be keeping
bees and producing honey. We will also be developing a garden, and will use
the GMC as for garden sales in the local farmer's market. Yup.
(Agricultural buildings in Virginia are exempt from building codes.)

Rick "Green Acres" Denney

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 2:54 PM Charles Boyd
wrote:

> Hi Rick, I’ll pass along what Blaine Merrel told me. “ it ain’t big
> enough!”
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5110-detached-garage.html
>
>
>
>
> rjw wrote on Tue, 23 March 2021 14:43
>> I am envious as well. My new garage/shop pales in comparison to the
> ones just mentioned.
>>
>> I am still finishing my 28x32 GMC garage. That was the maximum I could
> do on my 1 1/2 acre lot due to terrain, easements and zoning. I still had
>> to get a zoning variance to be able to build it.
>>
>> It is stick build, since the neighbors or city would not allow a pole
> barn. I built it with 10' side walls, scissor trusses that provide a 12
>> foot ceiling over the coach. 10' x 10' insulated garage door with
> opener, 3 large double hung windows and 2 skylights plus one "man Door". I
>> installed 10" fiberglass insulation in the ceiling and 4" in the walls
> behind fire code drywall.
>>
>> It has radiant tubing in the floor that is currently not hooked up to a
> heat source. I do have a 80,000 BTU forced air furnace hung from the
>> ceiling. I have a wall air conditioner/heat pump that so far does the
> trick in the summer. 100 amp service with many 120 and 240 volt outlets as
>> well as 30 and 50 amp for the coach. Also, I installed plumbing for
> water and sewer with a dump station inside and outside. I have 2 2"
> conduits
>> that run from the shop to the attic in my house for the Ethernet(4 POE
> security cameras, computers, streaming TV and WIFI access point}and coax for
>> cable/antenna TV. I hung 14 4FT LED Utility Shop Light from the
> ceiling. Those are really bright.
>>
>> This past winter I did not winterize the coach for the first time in 22
> years. That was a nice plus. I keep the heat set to 42F when I am not out
>> there working. When I want to work, I use my PC or iPhone to set the
> temp to 65 via Nest thermostat. In the winter it only takes 20 minutes or so
>> before it becomes comfortable enough to work with short sleeves.
>>
>> Its so nice to be working on a GMC project and not have to worry about
> the weather (will it or won't it rain) and play beat the clock putting my
>> tools away if it does start to rain.
>
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont
> East Tennessee
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>


--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
Re: [GMCnet] Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #362988 is a reply to message #362962] Tue, 23 March 2021 16:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
Senior Member
You guys need to seriously consider your heating options before you start construction. We have a great comparison of an overhead furnace, in the concrete floor radiant, and overhead radiant heat. All in the same well insulated and sealed 54'x54'x14' building.

In the first building after the extremely high gas bills over a few years with poor heat distribution the furnace was scrapped and we installed overhead radiant heat. In a 14'x54'x14' addition we added we installed in the floor hot water radiant heat but the owner did not listen to me and follow proper concrete floor to ground insulation. Can't change it now as it is all underground and the concrete floor.

In am adjacent 54'x54'x20' similarly insulated building we installed properly insulated concrete slab in floor radiant heat. It's cost to operate is siumilar to the high miunted radiant heat system installed next door.

Conlusions:

All of this is natural gas powered and expect the rates to go up with the Fed govt's current attitude on any kind of energy usage.

1. Forget the furnace. It's monthly cost is triple the other solutions. From overhead it distributes the heat poorly to where you need it.

2. In floor radiant works very well with some drawbacks.
2a. It is extremely expensive to install and must be done at building construction time. It takes a long time to bring a concrete slab up to desired temperature so If you want to run a timer thermostat do no expect quick changes in temperature.
2b. The system looses a lot of heat into the ground if the below floor and vertical side insulation is not done properly.

3. Over head radiant heating. It heats objects, not air, so loss to outside air is greatly reduced compared to other system. Can be retrofitted later. Usage costs are similar to a properly insulated in floor system. Can be idled to a lower temp to save energy and recovers quickly when needed.



Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] Re: Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #362989 is a reply to message #362987] Tue, 23 March 2021 16:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
C Boyd is currently offline  C Boyd   United States
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
Senior Member
Wow. Ag is exempt from building codes.. I guess I shoulda checked on that since I am zoned ag.. but I guess I shoulda checked if there was a difference in barn codes and house codes too. I do have a certificate of occupancy and 6030 sq ft of living space added to my property taxes.. I do look good on paper.




Richard Denney wrote on Tue, 23 March 2021 15:20
Chuck--it will never be big enough. That's a given. My first requirement
was being able to perform test drives in the motorhome without having to
use reverse gear. But even six acres wasn't enough for that one.

But--4999 square feet or less of disturbed soil does not require a grading
permit or solid and erosion control plan.

And maximum height above grade of 35 feet--I'm right at that limit given
the extra 3.5 feet of exposed foundation wall on the back.

And $80 a square foot does give one pause.

The primary use for this structure will be agricultural. We will be keeping
bees and producing honey. We will also be developing a garden, and will use
the GMC as for garden sales in the local farmer's market. Yup.
(Agricultural buildings in Virginia are exempt from building codes.)

Rick "Green Acres" Denney

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 2:54 PM Charles Boyd
wrote:

> Hi Rick, I’ll pass along what Blaine Merrel told me. “ it ain’t big
> enough!”
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5110-detached-garage.html
>
>
>
>
> rjw wrote on Tue, 23 March 2021 14:43
>> I am envious as well. My new garage/shop pales in comparison to the
> ones just mentioned.
>>
>> I am still finishing my 28x32 GMC garage. That was the maximum I could
> do on my 1 1/2 acre lot due to terrain, easements and zoning. I still had
>> to get a zoning variance to be able to build it.
>>
>> It is stick build, since the neighbors or city would not allow a pole
> barn. I built it with 10' side walls, scissor trusses that provide a 12
>> foot ceiling over the coach. 10' x 10' insulated garage door with
> opener, 3 large double hung windows and 2 skylights plus one "man Door". I
>> installed 10" fiberglass insulation in the ceiling and 4" in the walls
> behind fire code drywall.
>>
>> It has radiant tubing in the floor that is currently not hooked up to a
> heat source. I do have a 80,000 BTU forced air furnace hung from the
>> ceiling. I have a wall air conditioner/heat pump that so far does the
> trick in the summer. 100 amp service with many 120 and 240 volt outlets as
>> well as 30 and 50 amp for the coach. Also, I installed plumbing for
> water and sewer with a dump station inside and outside. I have 2 2"
> conduits
>> that run from the shop to the attic in my house for the Ethernet(4 POE
> security cameras, computers, streaming TV and WIFI access point}and coax for
>> cable/antenna TV. I hung 14 4FT LED Utility Shop Light from the
> ceiling. Those are really bright.
>>
>> This past winter I did not winterize the coach for the first time in 22
> years. That was a nice plus. I keep the heat set to 42F when I am not out
>> there working. When I want to work, I use my PC or iPhone to set the
> temp to 65 via Nest thermostat. In the winter it only takes 20 minutes or so
>> before it becomes comfortable enough to work with short sleeves.
>>
>> Its so nice to be working on a GMC project and not have to worry about
> the weather (will it or won't it rain) and play beat the clock putting my
>> tools away if it does start to rain.
>
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont
> East Tennessee
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>


--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
Re: [GMCnet] Re: Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #362990 is a reply to message #362987] Tue, 23 March 2021 16:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TR 1 is currently offline  TR 1   United States
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
Senior Member
Ahh... Nothing better than a Garage-Mahal...

Lots of good suggestions above, but I will throw in a couple more from having built 2 shops over the years:

If you are planning on a lift, one thing I've always wanted is in floor lighting...
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5588882&postcount=742

I ran Pex all over the shop for air lines... Been 12 years, and not a single problem, and easy to reconfigure if need be...

Also, when we did our current shop, the HOA made us "Do something interesting" with the roofline. What we settled on, was what I believe is called a split gable roof:
https://www.summergardenbuildings.co.uk/images/products/L/LOG-CABIN-11105445/p1m_LOG-CABIN-11105445.jpg

The upper windows let in a ton of light, without taking up floor/wall space for tools and shelves and stuff. They are less likely to leak than a skylight, and if you install windows that can open, they do a nice job of evacuating heat from the shop. Was pissed at the HOA at first for the additional cost, but I'm thankful now as I love what those windows do.


Mark S. '73 Painted Desert, Manny 1 Ton Front End, Howell Injection, Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes, Fort Worth, TX
Re: [GMCnet] Re: Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #362992 is a reply to message #362986] Tue, 23 March 2021 16:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rvanwin is currently offline  rvanwin   United States
Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Richard Denney wrote on Tue, 23 March 2021 14:10
Matt, I have a power-company hub transformer in my yard, 35 feet from the
corner of this barn. I will be paying an electrician just enough to install
a 300-amp panel and add a separately metered service from the power
company. I'll run all the branches myself. I have no interior finish on the
walls, so I can attach conduit runs wherever I want them. I'll be able to
go through walls as needed, too. I'm planning two 30-amp RV ports outside,
one inside, plus another two for bigger tools, and yet another one for a
compressor. Then, maybe five 20-amp branches, one for the attic, a 240V
20-amp branch for the attic, and lighting (I plan to use large LED bay
lights, maybe 8 of them). The heading system requires two 60's and a 30. I
just don't see how less than 300 amps could make me happy Smile

But I think I can go through the walls for all that. The power company will
want the meter can on the outside in any case, and then punch through the
wall to an interior panel.

Rick "those LED bay lights are BRIGHT" Denney


Rick,

I used 3 of these 200W Bay Lights in the shop area (roughly 1300 sq ft) where I wanted more light. Still have to use some task lighting under the coach because of shadows. I used 2 of the larger 250W lights in the Cold Storage (48 x 48) which gives plenty of light in there - I'm not doing any long term work in that area.

I've had them in about 6 months and they work great! I have switches at every walk-thru door. Lots of wire but worth doing in my opinion.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V9HC5SD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I was curious about how you were going to heat water. Based on your last post, sounds like you may be using an electric boiler? I'm using a hot water heater and it has been working great - got me through the polar vortex with temps below freezing for a week and well below zero during 2 or 3 nights. At that time, I was seeing about keeping the rooms at 70 degrees with just the floor and it maintained that temp while only cycling 2 or 3 times during the real cold part. I have decided to have the floor run at about 60 degrees which is OK for working in the shop and use the mini-splits to raise the temps in the break room - unfortunately, I probably will spend most of my time there hoping the work gets done. Next winter I will experiment with this more - maybe even keeping the floor down at 50 degrees and see how the mini-splits do pulling up the heat. I really only need the higher heat when I'm out there in the barn and can't see paying for the heat other times. I have looked into air-to-water heat pumps to heat the water which is an excellent way to go. Unfortunately, the US is way behind Asia and Europe with this technology and use so prices are fairly steep. I got my mini-splits at Menards and installed them myself so that did not cost much and will provide cooling in the summer.

Better than that would be geo-thermal with a heat pump to exchange heat into the water. Probably would be the most efficient approach. I have a geo-thermal system at my current home with heat and air through regular air ducts. Quite efficient but the barn, heating about the same square footage and more volume because of the high ceilings cost slightly less than my house.

Enough rambling!


Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
[GMCnet] Re: Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #362998 is a reply to message #362992] Tue, 23 March 2021 18:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Randy—the radiant heat company (Radiantec out of Vermont) recommended a
small boiler instead of a water heater for this application. It’s actually
much smaller that a water heater that would be big enough. My target is 55
degrees in the winter. I can use portable electric space heaters to
spot-warm a workspace if I’m out there.

My house was original built for hearing using a water-sourced geothermal
heat pump, but the well couldn’t deliver enough water, even with a
3500-gallon holding tank. The house is forced-air now, and it’s not
optimal.

Ken B—the radiant floor system is actually quite cheap if installed during
construction. For 2400 square feet of heated floor, the system is a little
over $6000 including the boiler. The barn has no plumbing, so the system
will be filled with antifreeze and operated closed. The only gas I have is
propane—too expensive—not doing that at all. The foundation contractor will
install 2” of insulated panels below the slab.

When I enclose the attic space, a minisplit is probably how I’ll go. That
comes later.

Rick “might have to drive two states over to find a Menards” Denney

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 5:46 PM Randy Van Winkle wrote:

>
> Rick,
>
> I used 3 of these 200W Bay Lights in the shop area (roughly 1300 sq ft)
> where I wanted more light. Still have to use some task lighting under the
> coach because of shadows. I used 2 of the larger 250W lights in the Cold
> Storage (48 x 48) which gives plenty of light in there - I'm not doing any
> long term work in that area.
>
> I've had them in about 6 months and they work great! I have switches at
> every walk-thru door. Lots of wire but worth doing in my opinion.
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V9HC5SD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>
> I was curious about how you were going to heat water. Based on your last
> post, sounds like you may be using an electric boiler? I'm using a hot
> water heater and it has been working great - got me through the polar
> vortex with temps below freezing for a week and well below zero during 2 or
> 3
> nights. At that time, I was seeing about keeping the rooms at 70 degrees
> with just the floor and it maintained that temp while only cycling 2 or 3
> times during the real cold part. I have decided to have the floor run at
> about 60 degrees which is OK for working in the shop and use the mini-splits
> to raise the temps in the break room - unfortunately, I probably will
> spend most of my time there hoping the work gets done. Next winter I will
> experiment with this more - maybe even keeping the floor down at 50
> degrees and see how the mini-splits do pulling up the heat. I really only
> need the
> higher heat when I'm out there in the barn and can't see paying for the
> heat other times. I have looked into air-to-water heat pumps to heat the
> water which is an excellent way to go. Unfortunately, the US is way
> behind Asia and Europe with this technology and use so prices are fairly
> steep.
> I got my mini-splits at Menards and installed them myself so that did not
> cost much and will provide cooling in the summer.
>
> Better than that would be geo-thermal with a heat pump to exchange heat
> into the water. Probably would be the most efficient approach. I have a
> geo-thermal system at my current home with heat and air through regular
> air ducts. Quite efficient but the barn, heating about the same square
> footage and more volume because of the high ceilings cost slightly less
> than my house.
>
> Enough rambling!
> --
> Randy & Margie
> '77 Eleganza II '403'
> Battlefield, MO
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
[GMCnet] Re: Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #363009 is a reply to message #362998] Wed, 24 March 2021 05:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GMC.LES is currently offline  GMC.LES   United States
Messages: 505
Registered: April 2014
Karma: -2
Senior Member
Rick,
I’m extremely curious to know more about your failed geothermal system. I’m in the planning/designing stages for a well-sourced (open loop) system here at home, and have been researching the subject. Knowing more about your system might help me avoid a few issues with mine.

From your description, it sounds as though your well would run out of water. This is typically caused by no return line back to the source. A simple solution would be to return the water used by the geothermal back into the same well. By doing so, the well never runs dry, and the water table is usually large enough that the water temp is barely affected. This is becoming a common practice in some areas, but most installers prefer closed-loop due to higher profits and lower maintenance for the owner.

If you are willing to discuss this in more detail, We can continue here, take it to email, or even a phone call.
Just let me know.

Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'


> On Mar 23, 2021, at 7:31 PM, Richard Denney wrote:
>
> Randy—the radiant heat company (Radiantec out of Vermont) recommended a
> small boiler instead of a water heater for this application. It’s actually
> much smaller that a water heater that would be big enough. My target is 55
> degrees in the winter. I can use portable electric space heaters to
> spot-warm a workspace if I’m out there.
>
> My house was original built for hearing using a water-sourced geothermal
> heat pump, but the well couldn’t deliver enough water, even with a
> 3500-gallon holding tank. The house is forced-air now, and it’s not
> optimal.
>
> Ken B—the radiant floor system is actually quite cheap if installed during
> construction. For 2400 square feet of heated floor, the system is a little
> over $6000 including the boiler. The barn has no plumbing, so the system
> will be filled with antifreeze and operated closed. The only gas I have is
> propane—too expensive—not doing that at all. The foundation contractor will
> install 2” of insulated panels below the slab.
>
> When I enclose the attic space, a minisplit is probably how I’ll go. That
> comes later.
>
> Rick “might have to drive two states over to find a Menards” Denney
>
>> On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 5:46 PM Randy Van Winkle wrote:
>>
>>
>> Rick,
>>
>> I used 3 of these 200W Bay Lights in the shop area (roughly 1300 sq ft)
>> where I wanted more light. Still have to use some task lighting under the
>> coach because of shadows. I used 2 of the larger 250W lights in the Cold
>> Storage (48 x 48) which gives plenty of light in there - I'm not doing any
>> long term work in that area.
>>
>> I've had them in about 6 months and they work great! I have switches at
>> every walk-thru door. Lots of wire but worth doing in my opinion.
>>
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V9HC5SD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>>
>> I was curious about how you were going to heat water. Based on your last
>> post, sounds like you may be using an electric boiler? I'm using a hot
>> water heater and it has been working great - got me through the polar
>> vortex with temps below freezing for a week and well below zero during 2 or
>> 3
>> nights. At that time, I was seeing about keeping the rooms at 70 degrees
>> with just the floor and it maintained that temp while only cycling 2 or 3
>> times during the real cold part. I have decided to have the floor run at
>> about 60 degrees which is OK for working in the shop and use the mini-splits
>> to raise the temps in the break room - unfortunately, I probably will
>> spend most of my time there hoping the work gets done. Next winter I will
>> experiment with this more - maybe even keeping the floor down at 50
>> degrees and see how the mini-splits do pulling up the heat. I really only
>> need the
>> higher heat when I'm out there in the barn and can't see paying for the
>> heat other times. I have looked into air-to-water heat pumps to heat the
>> water which is an excellent way to go. Unfortunately, the US is way
>> behind Asia and Europe with this technology and use so prices are fairly
>> steep.
>> I got my mini-splits at Menards and installed them myself so that did not
>> cost much and will provide cooling in the summer.
>>
>> Better than that would be geo-thermal with a heat pump to exchange heat
>> into the water. Probably would be the most efficient approach. I have a
>> geo-thermal system at my current home with heat and air through regular
>> air ducts. Quite efficient but the barn, heating about the same square
>> footage and more volume because of the high ceilings cost slightly less
>> than my house.
>>
>> Enough rambling!
>> --
>> Randy & Margie
>> '77 Eleganza II '403'
>> Battlefield, MO
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>
> --
> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Northern Virginia
> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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Re: [GMCnet] Guess what’s coming to Chez Denney [message #363013 is a reply to message #362962] Wed, 24 March 2021 07:59 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
lqqkatjon is currently offline  lqqkatjon   United States
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
Senior Member
working for an underground company, I agree with Matt, you can't have enough conduits exiting the facility.

what people do forget to install, and if you are using steel siding for sure, is run a conduits for low voltage. even just a 1" pvc under the concrete to go from one side of the building accross to the other.

I have ran conduit out of a steel building a few times to a simple telephone pole. that way, you can put a wi-fi access point external to the steel structure in order for wireless cameras, and other items to work. have installed many weboost wireless repeaters on steel pole barns, so you have cell signal inside.



Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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