Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Is 142 MPH possible?
| Is 142 MPH possible? [message #360514] |
Fri, 04 December 2020 17:32  |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
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Ok, i'm at the end of COVID recovery with no energy and bored stupid.
So the GMC dominates motorhome speed record for a long time and then some guy puts a toilet and a bed in FIAT minivan and goes 141 MPH.
That just seems WRONG.
So what would it take to move a GMC that quickly? THe previous contenders were 26 footers- so a 23 would be able to shed some weight.
A stock Toronado could go 135- how hard could it be ?
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
[Updated on: Fri, 04 December 2020 17:34] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is 142 MPH possible? [message #360517 is a reply to message #360514] |
Fri, 04 December 2020 17:47  |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
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I don’t think it’s the weight.
Also, the longer boundary length of the 26 foot coach may increase aerodynamic efficiency.
1400 hp at the wheels should get it north of 150
Dolph Santorine
DE AD0LF
Wheeling, West Virginia
1977 ex-Palm Beach TZE167V100820
Howell EFI/EBL , Reaction Arms, Manny Transmission
> On Dec 4, 2020, at 6:33 PM, dave silva via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Ok, i'm at the end of COVID recovery with no energy and bored stupid.
>
> So the GMC dominates motorhome speed record for a long time and then some guy puts a toilet and a bed in FIAT minivan and goes 141 MPH.
>
> That just seems WRONG.
>
> So what would it take to move a GMC that quickly? THe previous contenders were 26 footers- so a 23 would be able to shed some weight.
>
>
> --
> Dave & Ellen Silva
>
> 1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: Is 142 MPH possible? [message #360518 is a reply to message #360514] |
Fri, 04 December 2020 18:23 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
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I agree... Weight does not have an effect on top speed. Acceleration, yes. But as long as you can get the rig up to speed on the runup at Bonneville, (which is several miles, I believe) you only have drag to contend with.... So rolling resistance, drivetrain losses and aerodynamic drag.
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is 142 MPH possible? [message #360520 is a reply to message #360515] |
Fri, 04 December 2020 18:21 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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A few years ago, there was a racer with a debilitating progressive disease
that mounted a serious attempt at the Real Motorhome Record, and to bring
some publicity to his disease at the same time. Jim K. was one of his major
sponsors, and he was successful in boosting the record. Don't know if he
ever ran both directions in the allotted time or not. It wasn't for lack of
trying. But, that is a tall order. His motorhome was a GMC, but I don't
recall if it was a 23 or 26. The 26 is a bit more streamlined than the 23.
There also a couple of racers that owned a shop in Sequim, Washington
that did Chevrolet 454 conversions in GMC's that drove their coach from
Washington to Bonneville, raced and then drove it back home. They held the
record for a while. Don't know if sufficient interest still exists to have
another go at it. I might contribute a few bucks towards the effort, if it
was serious. What do you guys think?
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Fri, Dec 4, 2020, 3:55 PM Vadim Jitkov via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I agree - a Fiat van with a toilet and a bed is total cheating. :x
>
> I have no experience in speed record setting department, but it seems like
> we need a 23' GMC with a 455 and a right kind of final drive ratio.
> Probably no PowerDrive ether in order to spin the transmission faster. If
> we need an extra oomph from the engine to go faster we can bolt on a turbo
> or a supercharger onto it.
> The question is: should we have a community effort to make this happen to
> retake OUR rightful place in the records department? If there is someone out
> here with a know how and ability to undertake this, we can set up a
> GoFundMe to pull some $$ together for this project. With all the brains
> and brawn
> out here, I'm sure it is possible.
> At completion, it would be fun to have a GMC meet up on the Bonneville
> Salt Flats to see the actual speed run happening.
> Any takers?
> --
> Vadim Jitkov
> '76 Glenbrook 26'
> Pullman, WA
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is 142 MPH possible? [message #360522 is a reply to message #360519] |
Fri, 04 December 2020 18:39 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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At least it needs the original engine type and make. The largest problem
with the 455 is the 2-bolt main bearing caps. When you add "power
enhancers" the lower end doesn’t like it very much. The 454 Chev bug blocks
are robust in the crank, but the rest of the engine has a well earned
nickname, the Tonawanda Turd". Longevity is a big factor at Bonneville.
Long stretches of wide open throttle will separate the men from the boys
rather quickly. You will need a whole race trailer full of spare engines to
be successful. I have several friends that make the annual pilgrimage to
UTAH with high expectations, only to make that long lonely ride home with a
bunch of broken parts, and one hell of a sunburn to show for their effort.
But, they keep going back. Hope springs eternal, they say that there is
always next year.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Fri, Dec 4, 2020, 4:25 PM Paul Nadel via Gmclist
wrote:
> Bonneville Salt Flats is over 4000ft. elevation. The 26 ft GMC has less
> wind resistance than the 23 footer.
>
> How about an American made Allison V-12? Get rid of all the unnecessary
> weight. Reshape the nose.
> Lower it down about 3 inches. 2.73 gears. Replace all that heavy glass
> with Lexan. We could go on.
>
> If that doesn’t work I say use a G.E. out of an F-14 and stick it in the
> back.
>
> For my money it has to be stock, or it don’t count!
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is 142 MPH possible? [message #360523 is a reply to message #360522] |
Fri, 04 December 2020 19:34 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Since we were one of the major Sponsor for the World Land Speed record, we
know some things.
In some way it is a 1 mile drag race and speed taken at the end.
Having done Drag racing in my younger days, I know one need to
accelerate rapidly when the wind drag
increases exponentially.
We had a Chevrolet engine that was designed to peak around 6500 rpm.
My issue is that our transmission would shift up at 2500rpm in first gear
and 4,000rpm in second .
WE tried to fool the transmission , but not successful.
We need a trans that can hold max rpm at 6000-6500 then shift up.
Manny can make that happen, but he is telling me that when it shift up, the
gear cannot take the sudden jerk, so we need a stronger special gear for
second and drive.
The coach is for sale and I can tell you that it is all about gearing the
engine.
I know I can go 100mph, but not in one mile.
Spending one week at Bonneville was a great experience.
The track is so white, it looks more like snow.
On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 4:40 PM James Hupy via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> At least it needs the original engine type and make. The largest problem
> with the 455 is the 2-bolt main bearing caps. When you add "power
> enhancers" the lower end doesn’t like it very much. The 454 Chev bug blocks
> are robust in the crank, but the rest of the engine has a well earned
> nickname, the Tonawanda Turd". Longevity is a big factor at Bonneville.
> Long stretches of wide open throttle will separate the men from the boys
> rather quickly. You will need a whole race trailer full of spare engines to
> be successful. I have several friends that make the annual pilgrimage to
> UTAH with high expectations, only to make that long lonely ride home with a
> bunch of broken parts, and one hell of a sunburn to show for their effort.
> But, they keep going back. Hope springs eternal, they say that there is
> always next year.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020, 4:25 PM Paul Nadel via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Bonneville Salt Flats is over 4000ft. elevation. The 26 ft GMC has less
>> wind resistance than the 23 footer.
>>
>> How about an American made Allison V-12? Get rid of all the unnecessary
>> weight. Reshape the nose.
>> Lower it down about 3 inches. 2.73 gears. Replace all that heavy glass
>> with Lexan. We could go on.
>>
>> If that doesn’t work I say use a G.E. out of an F-14 and stick it in the
>> back.
>>
>> For my money it has to be stock, or it don’t count!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is 142 MPH possible? [message #360524 is a reply to message #360514] |
Fri, 04 December 2020 19:42 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
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It might not be a GMC Motorhome - but saying it's "a toilet and a bed in a FIAT minivan" is FAKE news...
https://rvshare.com/blog/fastest-motorhome-sets-new-world-record/
https://blog-cdn.rvshare.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/interior2.jpg
It looks like you could sleep in it AND make breakfast.
The previous GMC MH attempt vehicle was a long ways from my Royale!
It doesn't even look like it has a toilet OR a bed:
http://www.myrideisme.com/Blog/racing-rv-at-2013-bonneville-speed-week/
https://www.doityourselfrv.com/custom-gmc-motorhome-land-speed-record/
Rob
76 Royale Twin Beds, Dry Bath
Victoria, BC
> On Dec 4, 2020, at 3:32 PM, dave silva via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Ok, i'm at the end of COVID recovery with no energy and bored stupid.
>
> So the GMC dominates motorhome speed record for a long time and then some guy puts a toilet and a bed in FIAT minivan and goes 141 MPH.
>
> That just seems WRONG.
>
> So what would it take to move a GMC that quickly? THe previous contenders were 26 footers- so a 23 would be able to shed some weight.
>
>
> --
> Dave & Ellen Silva
>
> 1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
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Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is 142 MPH possible? [message #360531 is a reply to message #360523] |
Sat, 05 December 2020 01:27 |
Olly Schmidt
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
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Senior Member |
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I agree with Rob regarding the Fiat not just being a shell and stuff. It
is way more of a motorhome than the GMC during its speed run was.
If gearing is an issue, and the only rule that applies is the rule that
it has to have a similar type of engine, why not encouraging Hal StClair
with his endeavors of bringing a different engine and engine location
into the mix, thereby eliminating the transmission issue all along.
Might even have enough to power to have some resemblance of a motorhome
interior in it :-)
--
Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP KeyID: 0x4196BF22
'76a 26' Eleganza II - Virginia, US
'73 23' Sequoia - Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
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Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is 142 MPH possible? [message #360533 is a reply to message #360518] |
Sat, 05 December 2020 07:41 |
Randy Hecht
Messages: 93
Registered: March 2019
Location: Roswell, GA
Karma: -5
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I’ll help out, sounds like a worthy mission.
Randy Hecht
Roswell, GA
1974 Canyon Lakes GMC Motor-coach
> On Dec 4, 2020, at 19:24, Mark Sawyer via Gmclist wrote:
>
> I agree... Weight does not have an effect on top speed. Acceleration, yes. But as long as you can get the rig up to speed on the runup at
> Bonneville, (which is several miles, I believe) you only have drag to contend with.... So rolling resistance, drivetrain losses and aerodynamic drag.
> --
> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
> Howell Injection,
> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
> Fort Worth, TX
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: Is 142 MPH possible? [message #360534 is a reply to message #360514] |
Sat, 05 December 2020 08:12 |
6cuda6
Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019
Karma: -6
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Senior Member |
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All it takes is power....the bigger the mass the more power it takes....if i remember correctly its a 100hp for every mph over 100mph and i think its exponential as you go faster (the engineering folk in the group can probably elaborate on this).
Building a motor to make the power and all the parts can be done...it just takes cubic money....lots and lots of it.
The only limitimg factor i see here is time.....it takes alot of trial and error (i know and im sure Jim H can tell you as well how many destroyed parts happened before the right combo came along to make it all work correctly)
Rich Mondor,
Brockville, ON
77 Hughes 2600
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| Re: Is 142 MPH possible? [message #360537 is a reply to message #360535] |
Sat, 05 December 2020 11:51 |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
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Matt Colie wrote on Sat, 05 December 2020 08:54
Matt - a compendium of useless information
Definitely not useless.
Great perspective though.
Still, i just want to know what it would look like.
Is 130 or so the realistic limit for a 26 foot brick??
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is 142 MPH possible? [message #360541 is a reply to message #360537] |
Sat, 05 December 2020 12:38 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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There is no absolutes in land speed racing. About the time you set the
record so high that YOU think that is a record that will never be broken,
someone else comes along and proves otherwise. I personally think that is
one of attractions of BONNEVILLE SALT FLATS. (Other than the sunburns in
places you didn't even know you had). Cause? Reflections off that white,
white salt. My brother got bitten by the Salt Bug, and he and some of my
friends made that annual pilgrimage with a salt crusted 1953 Studebaker
Starlight Coupe with various engines in it for a long, long time.
I promised my first wife that I would cease all racing activities in
exchange for remaining married back in the late 1960's, and it is a promise
I still keep. Racing is a powerful narcotic, I know this for a fact. Once
you go back, it all rushes relentlessly home.
But, I still have the urges, I just have managed them. (I grew up).
I did build engines for a variety of go fast stuff from go karts,
motorcycles, drag racing gassers and slingshot dragsters, and a Bonneville
car or two. I did have to test them out for the owners. But, I dropped my
NHRA dragster drivers license many years ago.
A while back I was watching an interview with Don Prudhome on TV where
the interviewer asked him if he ever felt like strapping into a funny car
again. He replied, "Hell no, I can't even back out of my driveway without
running over my neighbors garbage cans. I've got no business in a funny
car!". That just about fits it.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 9:52 AM dave silva via Gmclist
wrote:
> Matt Colie wrote on Sat, 05 December 2020 08:54
>> Matt - a compendium of useless information
>
>
> Definitely not useless.
>
> Great perspective though.
>
> Still, i just want to know what it would look like.
>
> Is 130 or so the realistic limit for a 26 foot brick??
>
> --
> Dave & Ellen Silva
>
> 1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is 142 MPH possible? [message #360543 is a reply to message #360537] |
Sat, 05 December 2020 14:21 |
richshoop
Messages: 190
Registered: April 2017
Karma: 0
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Calling a GMC MH a brick is a bit harsh. I recall that when they put the model in the wind tunnel, the CV was something like 0.31, hardly a brick.
> On 12/05/2020 9:51 AM dave silva via Gmclist wrote:
>
>
> Matt Colie wrote on Sat, 05 December 2020 08:54
>> Matt - a compendium of useless information
>
>
> Definitely not useless.
>
> Great perspective though.
>
> Still, i just want to know what it would look like.
>
> Is 130 or so the realistic limit for a 26 foot brick??
>
> --
> Dave & Ellen Silva
>
> 1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is 142 MPH possible? [message #360544 is a reply to message #360541] |
Sat, 05 December 2020 14:55 |
LNelson
Messages: 335
Registered: December 2008
Location: Springfield, MO
Karma: 0
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Jim, when I used the term "slingshot" to my son in law, he looked at me like I had two heads. We were watching NHRA on the tube. I had to explain.
Larry Nelson Springfield, MO
Ex GMC'er, then GM Busnut
now '77 Eleganza ARS WB0JOT
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is 142 MPH possible? [message #360545 is a reply to message #360544] |
Sat, 05 December 2020 15:38 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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A few years ago, I was in B.C. Canada visiting some of my Canadian GMC
friends, and we attended a car show at Abbotsford, B.C. You might imagine
my surprise over walking into the competition car section and almost
falling over when I encountered a slingshot dragster that I used to pilot
when it was owned by a car club in Oregon. I always kinda wondered what
ever became of it. The current owner bought it at a auction, and didn't
have any history of the car. I filled him in on some of it while I was
driving it. It was in eventually the same condition as it was when I drove
it. A blast from the past, for sure. It had an injected DeSoto Hemi for
power, Ran in the high 140's - low 150's Can't remember the E.T.'s, but it
was competitive for the time.
I would guesstimate that for a GMC to run in the 140 mph speed, that
it would have to sustain 1400 - 1500 horsepower through the measured mile
at Bonneville. A tall task for an Oldsmobile in my opinion.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 12:56 PM Larry Nelson via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Jim, when I used the term "slingshot" to my son in law, he looked at me
> like I had two heads. We were watching NHRA on the tube. I had to explain.
> --
> Larry Nelson Springfield, MO
> Ex GMC'er, then GM Busnut
> now '77 Eleganza ARS WB0JOT
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
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