Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Lower Steering Shaft Removal
| Lower Steering Shaft Removal [message #344914] |
Thu, 04 July 2019 22:14  |
Stu Rasmussen
Messages: 130
Registered: January 2019
Location: Silverton, OR
Karma: 0
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Greetings all,
I need to remove the lower steering shaft and didn't find any information on how to do it in a search of the forums. (Why, you ask? Because the upper steering shaft lower bearing is in the wrong place according to the diagrams and the shaft / CV joint are wobbly when stopped and noisy while driving)
It appears from the diagrams that once the upper spline retaining bolt is removed the telescoping shaft elements should have enough room to allow the CV joint to slide off the splined shaft of the steering column.
After removing the retaining bolt and applying some muscle to the telescoping shaft trying to press it downward there was no movement.
Does this mean the telescoping members are probably rusted together or am I doing the whole thing wrong?
If I am on the right track and the telescoping shafts are rusted would injecting grease at the Zerk possibly let it slide or is this a fool's errand?
I thought about trying to take the CV joint apart but the bolt heads didn't match up with any of my wrenches: 7/16", 1/2", 11mm & 12mm. What size are they?
Thanks for any information -
Stu
Stu Rasmussen W7QJ
Silverton, OR
'77 Birchaven
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower Steering Shaft Removal [message #344915 is a reply to message #344914] |
Thu, 04 July 2019 22:32  |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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You must mark the parts so you put it back exactly the same as there is a
gemetric fit that must be observed so one does not end up going off phase
On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 8:15 PM Stu Rasmussen via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> I need to remove the lower steering shaft and didn't find any information
> on how to do it in a search of the forums. (Why, you ask? Because the upper
> steering shaft lower bearing is in the wrong place according to the
> diagrams and the shaft / CV joint are wobbly when stopped and noisy while
> driving)
>
> It appears from the diagrams that once the upper spline retaining bolt is
> removed the telescoping shaft elements should have enough room to allow the
> CV joint to slide off the splined shaft of the steering column.
>
> After removing the retaining bolt and applying some muscle to the
> telescoping shaft trying to press it downward there was no movement.
>
> Does this mean the telescoping members are probably rusted together or am
> I doing the whole thing wrong?
>
> If I am on the right track and the telescoping shafts are rusted would
> injecting grease at the Zerk possibly let it slide or is this a fool's
> errand?
>
> I thought about trying to take the CV joint apart but the bolt heads
> didn't match up with any of my wrenches: 7/16", 1/2", 11mm & 12mm. What
> size are
> they?
>
> Thanks for any information -
>
> Stu
> --
> Stu Rasmussen W7QJ
> Silverton, OR
> gutted '74 Eleganza II (for sale now)
> '77 Birchaven
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower Steering Shaft Removal [message #344916 is a reply to message #344915] |
Thu, 04 July 2019 22:45 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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The bolts are SAE, you need to bring the lip down so the socket edges
catch.
Call me for guidance
On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 8:32 PM Jim Kanomata , wrote:
> You must mark the parts so you put it back exactly the same as there is a
> gemetric fit that must be observed so one does not end up going off phase
>
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 8:15 PM Stu Rasmussen via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> I need to remove the lower steering shaft and didn't find any information
>> on how to do it in a search of the forums. (Why, you ask? Because the upper
>> steering shaft lower bearing is in the wrong place according to the
>> diagrams and the shaft / CV joint are wobbly when stopped and noisy while
>> driving)
>>
>> It appears from the diagrams that once the upper spline retaining bolt is
>> removed the telescoping shaft elements should have enough room to allow the
>> CV joint to slide off the splined shaft of the steering column.
>>
>> After removing the retaining bolt and applying some muscle to the
>> telescoping shaft trying to press it downward there was no movement.
>>
>> Does this mean the telescoping members are probably rusted together or am
>> I doing the whole thing wrong?
>>
>> If I am on the right track and the telescoping shafts are rusted would
>> injecting grease at the Zerk possibly let it slide or is this a fool's
>> errand?
>>
>> I thought about trying to take the CV joint apart but the bolt heads
>> didn't match up with any of my wrenches: 7/16", 1/2", 11mm & 12mm. What
>> size are
>> they?
>>
>> Thanks for any information -
>>
>> Stu
>> --
>> Stu Rasmussen W7QJ
>> Silverton, OR
>> gutted '74 Eleganza II (for sale now)
>> '77 Birchaven
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower Steering Shaft Removal [message #344930 is a reply to message #344916] |
Fri, 05 July 2019 09:49 |
Stu Rasmussen
Messages: 130
Registered: January 2019
Location: Silverton, OR
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I think I'm guilty of providing TMI.
Essence of my question: Can I get the CV joint and lower steering shaft disconnected from the steering column without disassembling the CV joint? Should it just slide off the spline after loosening the clamp?
Thanks!
Stu
Stu Rasmussen W7QJ
Silverton, OR
'77 Birchaven
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower Steering Shaft Removal [message #344940 is a reply to message #344930] |
Fri, 05 July 2019 16:24 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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The blue splined shaft should be able to move a couple of inches to
accommodate body motion. Disconnected at either end, the shaft should
separate there into two parts. So, yes, after REMOVING (not loosening) the
lower clamp bolt the shaft should compress enough for the u-joint to come
off of the steering box input shaft.
Unless you're VERY careful, you'll likely reassemble the upper CV joint in
one of the 5 incorrect positions rather than the one correct one, leaving
your steering wheel cocked. Nonetheless, removing both the upper and
lower clamp bolts, removing the complete lower steering shaft, and
refurbishing/lubricating the whole thing is a good idea. The lower U-joint
is VERY difficult to grease while in place (can't remember WHEN I did
mine). And the blue shaft probably doesn't get hit with grease nearly
often enough.
As we've said before, MARK THE CV JOINT carefully before disassembling it.
And after you've cleaned it, I STRONGLY recommend that you lubricate it
ONLY with Valvoline Synpower grease (for which we were given a new name
here recently). Other greases MAY cause binding in that device.
Ken H.
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 10:50 AM Stu Rasmussen via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I think I'm guilty of providing TMI.
>
> Essence of my question: Can I get the CV joint and lower steering shaft
> disconnected from the steering column without disassembling the CV joint?
> Should it just slide off the spline after loosening the clamp?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Stu
> --
> Stu Rasmussen W7QJ
> Silverton, OR
> gutted '74 Eleganza II (for sale now)
> '77 Birchaven
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Lower Steering Shaft Removal [message #344941 is a reply to message #344914] |
Fri, 05 July 2019 18:04 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Your blue area is probably galled and frozen. Grease it through the fitting, then try a rubber mallet to knock the top part further in to get clearance to remove. That's what I did. Then it was stuck in short mode so I wrapped 1/8 wire rope through the endeds and around thee base and sadfle of a 2 ton floor jack to pull it apart for proper cleaning and lubing. If it has not been sliding that takes out the lower column bearing. When you mate the intermediate shaft coupling on reassembly to the lower spline of main column, be sure it is full homed so bolt fits in relief cut. Lenzi found like 5 coaches on inspection day where that was improperly installed.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Lower Steering Shaft Removal [message #344945 is a reply to message #344941] |
Fri, 05 July 2019 20:01 |
Bill Van Vlack
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
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Senior Member |
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John,
When you say 'fully homed', I assume you mean that the coupling is slid on enough that the bolt fits easily through the coupling and recess in the shaft. Rather than 'all the way up and touching the upper (main) steering column bearing.
That bearing, by the way, is a tapered cone bearing and the cone is loose enough that it can fall by gravity and allow the main column spline to wiggle. My new one wiggles worse than the old one. When my good mechanic and GMC owner buddy saw that, he suggested some sort of narrow set screw collar with a bellville washer to hold the cone up.
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
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| Re: Lower Steering Shaft Removal [message #344977 is a reply to message #344945] |
Sat, 06 July 2019 13:24 |
Silvernort
Messages: 95
Registered: June 2019
Location: Rock Springs, WI
Karma: 0
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For an alternate take on replacing the intermediate steering shaft, go to Youtube to see a vid Jim Fawcett did a few years ago. Here's the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxgtqSMwjgQ
I did this change and so far works great. I called Borgeson (860-482-8283); actually asked for the James Fawcett special, explaining what it was; they looked up his old order and sent that to me. The U joints are part Nos 015240 and 014349. I think the telescoping shaft was No 450024 but not sure on that one. They can look it up. Total cost wast about $260 as I recall.
I will say this does require some modifications and you have to be very careful about measuring and so on. Take a look at the video to see if this if for you.
Shane
Shane Harvey
1973 26' "Packer Backer", 1976 Palm Beach, 1965 Dart
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| Re: Lower Steering Shaft Removal [message #344989 is a reply to message #344914] |
Sat, 06 July 2019 17:59 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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That lower column bearing (the one held in with that horseshoe type wire keeper) has a touch of slop even new. Same as used in GM vehicles of the era. Saddly it is not sealed. I clean and repack when I have that section apart. Yes the pinch bolt needs to line up with the relief. That is then the correct depth on the splines. The ones we observed as wrong were about 1/2" or so shy of being installed far enough. Felt they could fall of driving. That meant the pinch bolt was over the splines near the tip and not centered over the relief. I would try a different bearing. I think the Corvette one with tilt is the same. Should be available at any of the big Corvette vendors.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower Steering Shaft Removal [message #344990 is a reply to message #344989] |
Sat, 06 July 2019 18:10 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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And be darned sure you use the original size bolt in the upper and lower
clamps, else, substituting a smaller bolt, you may be off 1 spline CW or
CCW, causing misalignment of the steering wheel. Trying to correct that
may lead to mis-adjusting the steering box and consequent poor steering.
Ken H.
On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 7:00 PM John R. Lebetski via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> That lower column bearing (the one held in with that horseshoe type wire
> keeper) has a touch of slop even new. Same as used in GM vehicles of the
> era. Saddly it is not sealed. I clean and repack when I have that
> section apart. Yes the pinch bolt needs to line up with the relief. That is
> then
> the correct depth on the splines. The ones we observed as wrong were
> about 1/2" or so shy of being installed far enough. Felt they could fall of
> driving. That meant the pinch bolt was over the splines near the tip and
> not centered over the relief. I would try a different bearing. I think the
> Corvette one with tilt is the same. Should be available at any of the big
> Corvette vendors.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Lower Steering Shaft Removal [message #345001 is a reply to message #344914] |
Sun, 07 July 2019 00:12 |
Bill Van Vlack
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
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Senior Member |
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Shane,
I did that to mine last winter and like it. It just seems smoother. I have a story about that swap....
This spring I had some work done on the coach, including replacing the steering box, and when driving home the steering just didn't seem right - too much play. Expected more of an improvement with a new box. I didn't have time to check it out before our next rally and suffered with it until we got there, where I wiggled things around and finally figured out that the spring between the D shafts was missing.
This was a small(ish) town and I thought maybe a hot rod shop would have some Borgeson parts. I called a couple and was referred to a shop that I then phoned. The owner said he didn't have any Borgeson parts but remembered that they'd used Ford brake springs in a pinch and to come over and he'd look at it. I did, and he took it apart and went looking for a spring. Found one, snipped the attachment ends off, slipped it into the Double D shaft, put the lower coupling on and tightened the set screw and away we went. Took 15 minutes, he wouldn't let me pay him, and the coach steered great all the way home. I phoned Borgeson when I got home and they sent me one, no charge. I'll put it in 'sometime' but that Ford spring is working just fine.
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
[Updated on: Sun, 07 July 2019 00:14] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower Steering Shaft Removal [message #345005 is a reply to message #344990] |
Sun, 07 July 2019 08:07 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Ken Henderson wrote on Sat, 06 July 2019 19:10And be darned sure you use the original size bolt in the upper and lower clamps, else, substituting a smaller bolt, you may be off 1 spline CW or CCW, causing misalignment of the steering wheel. Trying to correct that may lead to mis-adjusting the steering box and consequent poor steering.
Ken H.
It is possible to get the correct size (maybe even OE) bolt in there when it is a tooth off, you just have to hammer it a little. This will do some minor damage to the fastener threads, but it must have been possible to drive the nut home.
Prior to my acquisition (and I hope since), my coach was apparently conscientiously and diligently maintained. I suspect that the owner turned it over to a less than competent shop at one time for some reason unknown to me.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower Steering Shaft Removal [message #345015 is a reply to message #345005] |
Sun, 07 July 2019 13:59 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I know how sensitive this is as Alex Ferrara has proven that most are off
and thus you have slop that cannot be corrected till it is done right.
On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 6:08 AM Matt Colie via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Ken Henderson wrote on Sat, 06 July 2019 19:10
>> And be darned sure you use the original size bolt in the upper and lower
> clamps, else, substituting a smaller bolt, you may be off 1 spline CW or
>> CCW, causing misalignment of the steering wheel. Trying to correct that
> may lead to mis-adjusting the steering box and consequent poor steering.
>>
>> Ken H.
>
> It is possible to get the correct size (maybe even OE) bolt in there when
> it is a tooth off, you just have to hammer it a little. This will do some
> minor damage to the fastener threads, but it must have been possible to
> drive the nut home.
>
> Prior to my acquisition (and I hope since), my coach was apparently
> conscientiously and diligently maintained. I suspect that the owner turned
> it
> over to a less than competent shop at one time for some reason unknown to
> me.
>
> Matt
>
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower Steering Shaft Removal [message #345017 is a reply to message #345005] |
Sun, 07 July 2019 15:01 |
Will Albers
Messages: 183
Registered: November 2017
Location: Detroit MI (Belleville)
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Matt, yes it can go on with force. I just went through a replacement with
alex f assistance and purposely experimented to see how far off you can go
before there is an issue.
I used the drill bit trick as well and found the bit went through off a
tooth. There was more resistance, where force was required, but it would
go through off a tooth.
-Will
On Sun, Jul 7, 2019, 9:08 AM Matt Colie via Gmclist
wrote:
> Ken Henderson wrote on Sat, 06 July 2019 19:10
>> And be darned sure you use the original size bolt in the upper and lower
> clamps, else, substituting a smaller bolt, you may be off 1 spline CW or
>> CCW, causing misalignment of the steering wheel. Trying to correct that
> may lead to mis-adjusting the steering box and consequent poor steering.
>>
>> Ken H.
>
> It is possible to get the correct size (maybe even OE) bolt in there when
> it is a tooth off, you just have to hammer it a little. This will do some
> minor damage to the fastener threads, but it must have been possible to
> drive the nut home.
>
> Prior to my acquisition (and I hope since), my coach was apparently
> conscientiously and diligently maintained. I suspect that the owner turned
> it
> over to a less than competent shop at one time for some reason unknown to
> me.
>
> Matt
>
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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1978 Palm Beach.
Detroit Michigan
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| [GMCnet] Re: Lower Steering Shaft Removal [message #366000 is a reply to message #365995] |
Mon, 09 August 2021 00:19 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Call me and I will send you several pages and we can discuss.
It is lot tricky than it looks.
Be sure and mark ALL as it is tricky.
On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 10:12 PM Eric Schmidt wrote:
> It was touched on, but not discussed... if the steering box is set at the
> high point, and the steering wheel is straight ahead and the clamp bolts are
> positioned as they should be but the cv joint bolt holes do not line up,
> how does one adjust it? My coach wasn't right when I got it, and I am trying
> to get it right. How and what do I index so that it is right? As it is
> right now, the cv joint screw holes are off about 30 degrees. Anyone? Thank
> you!
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: Lower Steering Shaft Removal [message #366004 is a reply to message #344914] |
Mon, 09 August 2021 07:38 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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I’ve got a simple question on all this, or rather a couple questions. Mine is seeming to be working fine and I’ve used a grease gun on the zirt there till it oozed out at the ends but the grease was not the recommended grease and my joints have not got boots around the joints. First question, will I need to take apart the shafts to be able to clean and regrease the joints and get the new boots installed? And second question, has someone found a good part number say at NAPA for the upper and lower boot cover?
Thanks,
TG
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: [GMCnet] Re: Lower Steering Shaft Removal [message #366072 is a reply to message #366000] |
Wed, 11 August 2021 12:23 |
EricWaS
Messages: 7
Registered: August 2020
Location: Spokane, WA
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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jimk wrote on Mon, 09 August 2021 00:19Call me and I will send you several pages and we can discuss.
It is lot tricky than it looks.
Be sure and mark ALL as it is tricky.
On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 10:12 PM Eric Schmidt wrote:
> It was touched on, but not discussed... if the steering box is set at the
> high point, and the steering wheel is straight ahead and the clamp bolts are
> positioned as they should be but the cv joint bolt holes do not line up,
> how does one adjust it? My coach wasn't right when I got it, and I am trying
> to get it right. How and what do I index so that it is right? As it is
> right now, the cv joint screw holes are off about 30 degrees. Anyone? Thank
> you!
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Thanks for the offer of the call Jim! I will try to call when I am standing in from of my moho. Is any time any better than another? PM me?
The real problem is that it has been apart before by a PO, and I believe it wasn't assembled correctly at that time. The documents that I could find rely on everything being marked as they are dis-assembled. The steering shaft came from another vendor when he was clearing out his inventory, and the cv joint binds a little, so it possibly is not clocked the same as it came apart?
Thanks, Eric
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