| Re: [GMCnet] ride height adjustment [message #30723 is a reply to message #30719] |
Wed, 17 December 2008 13:05   |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Dear Wifey/Santa....
| Rick Denney wrote on Wed, 17 December 2008 12:31 |
Keith V writes...
> It looks like I need to get a copy of the repair manual.
> I keep hearing about it..
Yes, these are a must have. But get the electronic versions that Tom
Lins scanned from originals. Many of the modern reproductions that
come in hard copy used too much contrast in the copy work, making the
figures often unreadable black smudges.
http://www.bdub.net/tomlins/index.html
Rick "the CD's are about 10% of the price of hard copies, too" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ride Height Adjustment [message #87918 is a reply to message #87916] |
Thu, 10 June 2010 08:21 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Ken,
I am sure you know -- but for any others reading, it is always good to take the load off the torsion bar before turning the adjustment screw.
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN 38138-2066
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: ken hugelier <kahugelier@sbcglobal.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thu, Jun 10, 2010 8:10 am
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ride Height Adjustment
I think it was within the last week or two, someone posted a statement
ndicating how many turns on the torsion bar adjuster equaled one inch movement
n the coach height. I thought it was in the "Why is the front ride higher than
he rear of my GMC" thread, but I could not find it in the archives.
Ken B.- A friend of mine has a tire/front end shop not far from me with a pit. I
ill go there and lower the front end a bit using your suggestion of equal turns
n each side. The above requested info will just save a little time. I'm
ondering if the "lumpy" feeling I get on take off could be the CV joints
ttempting to wear in to a new grove due to the new height setting?
have not heard from anyone else who's coach height was adjusted at Hamilton,
ou?
ken hugelier 77 PB Det. Mich.
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MCnet mailing list
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ride Height Adjustment [message #87919 is a reply to message #87916] |
Thu, 10 June 2010 08:26 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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| kenneth hugelier wrote on Thu, 10 June 2010 09:10 |
I think it was within the last week or two, someone posted a statement indicating how many turns on the torsion bar adjuster equaled one inch movement in the coach height. I thought it was in the "Why is the front ride higher than the rear of my GMC" thread, but I could not find it in the archives.
Ken B.- A friend of mine has a tire/front end shop not far from me with a pit. I will go there and lower the front end a bit using your suggestion of equal turns on each side. The above requested info will just save a little time. I'm wondering if the "lumpy" feeling I get on take off could be the CV joints attempting to wear in to a new grove due to the new height setting?
I have not heard from anyone else who's coach height was adjusted at Hamilton, you?
ken hugelier 77 PB Det. Mich.
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6 turns = 1 inch
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ride Height Adjustment [message #88022 is a reply to message #87916] |
Fri, 11 June 2010 00:30 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| kenneth hugelier wrote on Thu, 10 June 2010 08:10 |
I think it was within the last week or two, someone posted a statement indicating how many turns on the torsion bar adjuster equaled one inch movement in the coach height. I thought it was in the "Why is the front ride higher than the rear of my GMC" thread, but I could not find it in the archives.
Ken B.- A friend of mine has a tire/front end shop not far from me with a pit. I will go there and lower the front end a bit using your suggestion of equal turns on each side. The above requested info will just save a little time. I'm wondering if the "lumpy" feeling I get on take off could be the CV joints attempting to wear in to a new grove due to the new height setting?
I have not heard from anyone else who's coach height was adjusted at Hamilton, you?
ken hugelier 77 PB Det. Mich.
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Byron said he was very happy with his. Also Chuck said he was happy with his that we did a week earlier at Bean Station. I came home and did mine. It turned out mine was low all the way around. After adjusting the rears to the exact correct height, (The rears were 3/4 low before I started), the fronts were also correct. So no front adjustment was done to my fronts. I'm happy with mine.
What bothers me about this whole discussion is the talk about level axles in front. If they are indeed suppose to be level then the numbers in the GMC manual are way off when using the 2.25x75 R16's even though the revolutions per mile and tire heights are almost exactly the same.
I wish we could find some GM authoritative source that said that the front axles should be level. Another possibility would be to find someone with 16.5 bias ply tires that have their front ride height set correctly to the book specs. Then we could put a level on their axles and verify if they are suppose to be level. Good luck on finding that one.
If you want to try level axles then I would drop the front (equally) until they are level. Then I would measure the amount of drop from book spec. Then I would reduce the rears by that same amount drop. I have no idea how much that would be.
I measured one of the coach's axles with a level at Hamilton. I do not remember which one it was. On that coach the axles were nowhere near level even though the front ride heights were correct by the book.
Please let me know what you do and how it works out. I am very interested in your results.
Note:
I used 65 PSI all the way around when checked mine. I usually run 65 front and about 60 in the rears. I go to 65 rear when I hang my 500 pound motorcycle on my rear Blaine Merrell through the bumper trailer hitch.
Please let me know what do and what happens.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ride Height Adjustment [message #88050 is a reply to message #88027] |
Fri, 11 June 2010 10:09 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Fri, 11 June 2010 01:17 |
Ken,
I am going to call Ken Frey tonight (Friday morning in PA) and ask him about
this. From what has been discussed here I suspect I misheard or
misunderstood what he told me!
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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You probably heard correctly since Emery stated the same thing. Both of these people are very knowledgeable on the GMC and people I trust. I would just like to see this in writing from GM.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ride Height Adjustment [message #88071 is a reply to message #88051] |
Fri, 11 June 2010 13:32 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Fri, 11 June 2010 10:22 |
Ken B.,
I just got off the phone with Ken F. and I got it somewhat wrong or right
depends on how you look at it.
Ken said he sets up the coach level. He starts by setting the rear ride
height so that a line extending from the center of rear axle spindle going
forward intersects with the center of the two bogie pivots and through the
center of the middle axle spindle.
He then adjusts the torsion bars to set the frame level.
He says that this will "just about" make the front axles level or the inner
CV joints will be a bit higher than the outer as long as the engine mounts
are not shot.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Burton
You probably heard correctly since Emery stated the same thing. Both of
these people are very knowledgeable on the GMC and people I trust. I would
just like to see this in writing from GM.
--
Ken Burton
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Interesting.
So, He is eliminating the 1+ inch difference in frame height between the front and the rear. That sure is not by the book. I wonder what effect (good or bad) the 1+" front end drop has on handling, CV joints, and ride.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ride Height Adjustment [message #88081 is a reply to message #88022] |
Fri, 11 June 2010 14:40 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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""I wish we could find some GM authoritative source that said that the front axles should be level. Another possibility would be to find someone with 16.5 bias ply tires that have their front ride height set correctly to the book specs. Then we could put a level on their axles and verify if they are suppose to be level. Good luck on finding that one. ""
Ken, for the life of me I just don't understand where that all came from. I never worked on the GMC but I was a chassis engineer on almost all of GM's FWD cars and unless it was by accident, there was never any need or requirement to have the axle shafts level while at ride height. Ride height is the driver to everything else associated with it. Much more important than drive shaft angles is the toe change curve and where you are within that curve at normal driving speed. Yes the front inner CV joints have a limited range of acceptable angles, but if the ride height is to spec, everything else will be, not the other way around.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] ride height adjustment [message #88082 is a reply to message #88079] |
Fri, 11 June 2010 14:51 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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No offense Bruce, but there are probably just as many that aren't level. You only see specs on any vehicle for ride height at specific points for that vehicle. If it was necessary for them to be level, you would find specs accordingly. Realize also that level to ground is not the only angle a joint sees--it is a composite angle that also includes fore-aft positioning, and many many vehicles also have a significant fore-aft angle as well. All of that is driven by complex packaging issues such as component clearances, ground clearance, total ride travel, ratio of jounce vs rebound travel, and of course joint angular cababilities. Very few vehicles use the tripot inner joints because they are sensitive to angles. If you look at true CV joints that are also utilized at the outboard ends, they are capable of very high angles under all operating conditions. And no, the joint angles do not affect torque steer.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ride Height Adjustment [message #88087 is a reply to message #88060] |
Fri, 11 June 2010 15:43 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Ken,
No, I didn't ask him that. I just asked him how he set the ride height and I
parroted what he said to me.
You’re welcome.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of ken hugelier
Sent: Saturday, 12 June 2010 2:17 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ride Height Adjustment
Bob,
Did Ken Frey say what the front frame measurements were? Do we assume
he used the ones in the manual? In any case, I believe that method would
lower my coach all around.
Thanks for checking.
ken hugelier 77 PB Det. Mich.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ride Height Adjustment [message #88094 is a reply to message #88081] |
Fri, 11 June 2010 16:30 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Bob de Kruyff wrote on Fri, 11 June 2010 14:40 |
""I wish we could find some GM authoritative source that said that the front axles should be level. Another possibility would be to find someone with 16.5 bias ply tires that have their front ride height set correctly to the book specs. Then we could put a level on their axles and verify if they are suppose to be level. Good luck on finding that one. ""
Ken, for the life of me I just don't understand where that all came from. I never worked on the GMC but I was a chassis engineer on almost all of GM's FWD cars and unless it was by accident, there was never any need or requirement to have the axle shafts level while at ride height. Ride height is the driver to everything else associated with it. Much more important than drive shaft angles is the toe change curve and where you are within that curve at normal driving speed. Yes the front inner CV joints have a limited range of acceptable angles, but if the ride height is to spec, everything else will be, not the other way around.
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Thanks Bob. Now I do not know what to think about the whole thing. I guess I'll leave mine where it is at the book recommended specs. I know that is also what Jim K. uses in his shop.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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