Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » yet another dash AC question
Re: [GMCnet] yet another dash AC question [message #274550 is a reply to message #274546] |
Sun, 29 March 2015 14:13 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442 Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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OK. So where do you buy it for $5.62 a can?
That is cheaper than where I have been buying it.
Emery Stora
> On Mar 29, 2015, at 1:04 PM, John Wright wrote:
>
> Emery,
> You are again correct, I was on the wrong line.
> J.R. Wright
> 30' Buskirk Stretch
> Michigan
> On Location in Tucson
>
>> On Mar 29, 2015, at 11:50 AM, Emery Stora wrote:
>>
>> John
>> I just clicked on the link you provider and they say their price is $89.88 per case of 12 plus shipping. That comes to $7.49 plus shipping per can. A lot higher than the $5.82 that you say in your email.
>>
>> Emery Stora
>>
>>> On Mar 29, 2015, at 12:20 PM, John Wright wrote:
>>>
>>> Karen,
>>> You don’t have your location on a general area where you live and that would be very helpful in getting you to the right place to buy stuff.
>>>
>>> http://www.duracool.com
>>>
>>> Best Place to buy Duracool. I always buy by the case which runs 5.82 a can and if I have any left over I sell to my GMC friends.
>>>
>>> J.R. Wright
>>> 30' Buskirk Stretch
>>> Michigan
>>> On Location in Tucson
>>>
>>>> On Mar 29, 2015, at 9:25 AM, KB wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Roy, I really appreciate the help. I bought the compressor from Applied, so they'll most likely
>>>> provide a replacement. Finally found the old expansion valve this morning,
>>>> so when I get back might try putting it back in first. I only took it out because "your supposed to".
>>>> While it's not too likely I got two defective brand new expansion valves in a row, it is possible.
>>>> Too bad I'm out of refrigerant or I'd try it now.
>>>>
>>>> I think I'll also switch to real Duracool though it's more expensive. I'm suspicious of the murky green color in the oil,
>>>> but can't figure out what it could be other than dye. While my understanding that Enviro-Safe is equivalent, I suspect they've
>>>> changed their formula (I ordered Glacier Gold originally, but Enviro-Safe is what they sent for whatever reason).
>>>>
>>>> thanks again,
>>>>
>>>> Karen
>>>> 1975 26'
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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Re: [GMCnet] yet another dash AC question [message #274551 is a reply to message #274539] |
Sun, 29 March 2015 14:34 |
roy1
Messages: 2126 Registered: July 2004 Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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KB wrote on Sun, 29 March 2015 09:25Thanks Roy, I really appreciate the help. I bought the compressor from Applied, so they'll most likely
provide a replacement. Finally found the old expansion valve this morning,
so when I get back might try putting it back in first. I only took it out because "your supposed to".
While it's not too likely I got two defective brand new expansion valves in a row, it is possible.
Too bad I'm out of refrigerant or I'd try it now.
I think I'll also switch to real Duracool though it's more expensive. I'm suspicious of the murky green color in the oil,
but can't figure out what it could be other than dye. While my understanding that Enviro-Safe is equivalent, I suspect they've
changed their formula (I ordered Glacier Gold originally, but Enviro-Safe is what they sent for whatever reason).
thanks again,
Karen
1975 26'
The problem you are experiencing is tough to be totally sure of the cause especially for those of us that not there with you. Generally with a full charge of refrigerant or more the suction pressure would be more than 20 lbs unless there is a restriction between the condenser outlet and the evap coil. The liquid line,expansion valve and drier would be in this section. You would have noticed the temperature drop in the exposed areas. You measured the oil charge so it can't oil logged. You know the coil is clean and the air moving over it is good and the heat damper is shut so you are pretty much down to a problem with the compressor but the fact that the suction pressure is low makes it harder to say yeah it's the compressor for sure. I wouldn't have changed the old expansion valve it it had been working ok heck I still have the original dryer in mine even though I should have changed it awhile ago. I agree with your thoughts to try the old valve and a known good refrigerant before you pull the compressor just to be sure.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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Re: yet another dash AC question [message #274588 is a reply to message #274435] |
Mon, 30 March 2015 07:47 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447 Registered: October 2006 Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Low pressures and little cooling. Has to be lack of pumping, lack of charge or lack of restriction at expansion valve . Dumb question as new compressor---is rotation direction correct? And clutch is staying engaged?
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Re: yet another dash AC question [message #274604 is a reply to message #274588] |
Mon, 30 March 2015 17:51 |
KB
Messages: 1262 Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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How could I tell? Got it at Applied as a direct replacement, so I assume the rotation is correct.
I can tell by watching the pressures that the compressor is staying engaged, and I verified it was operating by
pulling the pressure switch connection temporarily so I could hear it click off and on.
Adding more refrigerant increases the low side but does little for the high side and nothing for cooling.
I've tried it with both the recommended three 6oz cans, and with up to 5 cans, and it's no good either way, so pretty sure the charge is not the problem.
And of course I've tried two different brand new expansion valves, and blew out both the condenser and evaporator, so no blockages there.
And as an aside, I think the green color in the oil I'm seeing is almost certainly dye -- it's about the same shade
as the dye laced oil you can buy at the Duracool site. The Glacier Gold I used before was a nice cheery fluorescent yellow color,
which I found more reassuring.
thanks,
Karen
1975 26'
JohnL455 wrote on Mon, 30 March 2015 05:47Low pressures and little cooling. Has to be lack of pumping, lack of charge or lack of restriction at expansion valve . Dumb question as new compressor---is rotation direction correct? And clutch is staying engaged?
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Re: yet another dash AC question [message #274697 is a reply to message #274659] |
Tue, 31 March 2015 22:30 |
Adrien G.
Messages: 474 Registered: May 2008 Location: Burns Flat, OK 73624
Karma: 1
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KB wrote on Tue, 31 March 2015 12:22where?? I went through the whole document and didn't find it. The only troubleshooting is for blissfield/tecumseh/york
compressors and just says "low discharge and suction pressures": check for low refrigerant charge (already did that) and
leak check compressor. I don't see any leaks at the compressor and it's brand new.
Was there something else you found??
Karen
1975 26'
Adrien G. wrote on Mon, 30 March 2015 20:25Karen,
Take a look at AC info in this site. Your problem is mentioned there.
http://www.meicorporation.com/pdfs/Comp09.pdf
Some simple things can be so frustrating.
Karen, The first page #211, scroll down to page #212 (trouble shooting chart) at "improper cooling" section. High suction pressure & low discharge pressure.
Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild
Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
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Re: yet another dash AC question [message #274707 is a reply to message #274435] |
Wed, 01 April 2015 09:36 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447 Registered: October 2006 Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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If I remember my GM history correctly cycling clutch started in 77. So your comp should stay engaged unless low or high pressure switches open as protection. So far so good. Lack of differential pressure points to the valve. They changed types and name for expansion valve or POA over the years. Obviously adding refigerant will raise the pressures low and high side. How does the low side site glass look as you charge it? Can you see vapor rushing past it? If so I would guess comp is ok. I think Emery said the glass is not accurate as a charge guide with HC12. If it goes clear liquid it is overcharged, unlike w R12. Sounds like you never reach a good point as you added and monitored charge so charge amount would have been good and cold at some point. I would refer to the FSM for your year to understand and diagnose your year's valve system. I think there is a bleed tube and temp sensing to control the throttling of the valve. In other words it's an active valving component, unlike the fixed orifice size and temp control done by cycling the comp on the later years. I'm guessing there is not enough pressure building across the valve. You should hear an RPM drop as you cycle from vent to AC, if only slight then the pump isn't using any horsepower to do work against the restriction. Do Jim Ks techs have any insights using this comp on your year with HC12?
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Re: yet another dash AC question [message #274726 is a reply to message #274707] |
Wed, 01 April 2015 12:45 |
KB
Messages: 1262 Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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I replaced the low pressure switch and adjusted the thermostat down slightly and that seems to have fixed the cycling problems I was seeing before.
However, as you note, I'm not hearing much RPM change, though I can tell by the pressure change that it's engaging when I disconnect and reconnect
the pressure switch.
When we get back, I'll try putting back the original (likely good) expansion valve and charging with real Duracool so we have an apples to apples comparison.
If it still doesn't work, then I'll start bugging JimK about it.
Thanks everyone for all the help. This has been a real tough problem for a complete AC novice like me.
Karen
1975 26'
JohnL455 wrote on Wed, 01 April 2015 07:36If I remember my GM history correctly cycling clutch started in 77. So your comp should stay engaged unless low or high pressure switches open as protection. So far so good. Lack of differential pressure points to the valve. They changed types and name for expansion valve or POA over the years. Obviously adding refigerant will raise the pressures low and high side. How does the low side site glass look as you charge it? Can you see vapor rushing past it? If so I would guess comp is ok. I think Emery said the glass is not accurate as a charge guide with HC12. If it goes clear liquid it is overcharged, unlike w R12. Sounds like you never reach a good point as you added and monitored charge so charge amount would have been good and cold at some point. I would refer to the FSM for your year to understand and diagnose your year's valve system. I think there is a bleed tube and temp sensing to control the throttling of the valve. In other words it's an active valving component, unlike the fixed orifice size and temp control done by cycling the comp on the later years. I'm guessing there is not enough pressure building across the valve. You should hear an RPM drop as you cycle from vent to AC, if only slight then the pump isn't using any horsepower to do work against the restriction. Do Jim Ks techs have any insights using this comp on your year with HC12?
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Re: yet another dash AC question [message #274771 is a reply to message #274707] |
Wed, 01 April 2015 23:13 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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JohnL455 wrote on Wed, 01 April 2015 08:36If I remember my GM history correctly cycling clutch started in 77. So your comp should stay engaged unless low or high pressure switches open as protection. So far so good. Lack of differential pressure points to the valve. They changed types and name for expansion valve or POA over the years. Obviously adding refigerant will raise the pressures low and high side. How does the low side site glass look as you charge it? Can you see vapor rushing past it? If so I would guess comp is ok. I think Emery said the glass is not accurate as a charge guide with HC12. If it goes clear liquid it is overcharged, unlike w R12. Sounds like you never reach a good point as you added and monitored charge so charge amount would have been good and cold at some point. I would refer to the FSM for your year to understand and diagnose your year's valve system. I think there is a bleed tube and temp sensing to control the throttling of the valve. In other words it's an active valving component, unlike the fixed orifice size and temp control done by cycling the comp on the later years. I'm guessing there is not enough pressure building across the valve. You should hear an RPM drop as you cycle from vent to AC, if only slight then the pump isn't using any horsepower to do work against the restriction. Do Jim Ks techs have any insights using this comp on your year with HC12?
John, I think all of our coaches have thermostats on the evaporator which means they are all cycling compressor systems. My memory is that all GM systems were cycling systems until the Da5 variable displacement compressor came out in 1983 or somewhere in there.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: yet another dash AC question [message #274865 is a reply to message #274435] |
Fri, 03 April 2015 08:46 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447 Registered: October 2006 Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Bob, I have a 76 Grand Lemans and that has the non cyclling A6 I had a 77 Monte Carlo and that had the 'new' cycling A6 system. The cycling system would then coincide with the final HVAC desigb in the MH for 77. I remember owners manual explanation to make people aware of the cycling feel and state that it was normal. I could be wrong on the MH if they introduced the cycling clutch pre 77.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Re: yet another dash AC question [message #274913 is a reply to message #274865] |
Fri, 03 April 2015 16:08 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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JohnL455 wrote on Fri, 03 April 2015 07:46Bob, I have a 76 Grand Lemans and that has the non cyclling A6 I had a 77 Monte Carlo and that had the 'new' cycling A6 system. The cycling system would then coincide with the final HVAC desigb in the MH for 77. I remember owners manual explanation to make people aware of the cycling feel and state that it was normal. I could be wrong on the MH if they introduced the cycling clutch pre 77.
I think that we may be talking about two different things as far as the whole design of the refrigerant loop and you are right. I think the so called non-cycling system will still cycle under certain conditions like WOT switch (not on the motorhome), and the evaporator thermostat.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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