Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Avion Wanted
| Re: [GMCnet] Avion Wanted [message #265261 is a reply to message #265234] |
Sat, 01 November 2014 17:11   |
cadelec
Messages: 303
Registered: September 2011
Location: Brisbane Australia
Karma: 1
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USAussie wrote on Sat, 01 November 2014 21:02Trevor,
2) If Guy's brother in law lives in California the 1976 Edgemont will have to be smogged, the 1975 Avion won't have to be.
Smog must be a pain
Trevor
Brisbane Australia
Siesta Koala 76 Edgemont (old Bobby Moores)
71 Cadillac Eldo Convert
58 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham Project
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| Re: [GMCnet] Avion Wanted [message #265262 is a reply to message #265166] |
Sat, 01 November 2014 17:14 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
Karma: 1
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>Smog must be a pain
ANYTHING involving a DMV is a pain.
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Avion Wanted [message #265263 is a reply to message #265262] |
Sat, 01 November 2014 17:46 |
stick miller
Messages: 1036
Registered: March 2010
Location: Americus, Georgia
Karma: 0
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Isn't this sort of like buying a restored antique car vs doing the restoration yourself? I figure you almost always save money letting someone else spend the big bucks and you enjoying the depreciated value.
Of course, so far I haven't practiced what I'm preaching, but one of these days I'm going to spring for a nice one.
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Avion Wanted [message #265264 is a reply to message #265263] |
Sat, 01 November 2014 18:24 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Stick,
Absolutely; however, before you buy it how do you know what kind of job the restorer did unless you take the time to carefully
inspect it yourself and check all the paperwork?
I'll bet dollars to donuts that every GMC owner who puts his GMC up for sale will tell you about all the upgrades they have done and
how well they have maintained the unit.
Then you start checking the paperwork and you find out that a lot of the upgrades were done long ago and need re-doing and the
maintenance wasn't quite as good a the PO claimed. ;-)
As the carnival barker said; "you pays your money and you takes your chances!"
I personally would rather spend the extra bucks and do it myself that way I KNOW what I've got!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Stick Miller
Isn't this sort of like buying a restored antique car vs doing the restoration yourself? I figure you almost always save money
letting someone else spend the big bucks and you enjoying the depreciated value.
Of course, so far I haven't practiced what I'm preaching, but one of these days I'm going to spring for a nice one.
--
Stick
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Avion Wanted [message #265271 is a reply to message #265264] |
Sat, 01 November 2014 23:20 |
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I heartily agree.
"New" is the most misused word in a description on a vehicle over 15 years
old regardless of the make or model; this is particularly true of
motorhomes. That word just means it isn't original.
Another misnomer is the word "rebuilt." How much was rebuilt, by whom, and
when. That goes for any portion of the vehicle. For instance, rebuilt
steering means something was replaced not that the whole system was rebuilt.
A seller never tells the whole truth, only the good parts as they remember
it. It's just human nature.
Byron Songer
Currently in Gulf Breeze but soon to be Kissimmee.
Robert Mueller wrote:
> Stick,
>
> Absolutely; however, before you buy it how do you know what kind of job the
> restorer did unless you take the time to carefully
> inspect it yourself and check all the paperwork?
>
> I'll bet dollars to donuts that every GMC owner who puts his GMC up for sale
> will tell you about all the upgrades they have done and
> how well they have maintained the unit.
>
> Then you start checking the paperwork and you find out that a lot of the
> upgrades were done long ago and need re-doing and the
> maintenance wasn't quite as good a the PO claimed. ;-)
>
> As the carnival barker said; "you pays your money and you takes your chances!"
>
> I personally would rather spend the extra bucks and do it myself that way I
> KNOW what I've got!
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stick Miller
>
> Isn't this sort of like buying a restored antique car vs doing the restoration
> yourself? I figure you almost always save money
> letting someone else spend the big bucks and you enjoying the depreciated
> value.
>
> Of course, so far I haven't practiced what I'm preaching, but one of these
> days I'm going to spring for a nice one.
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--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Avion Wanted [message #265272 is a reply to message #265257] |
Sun, 02 November 2014 01:12 |
Guy Lopes
Messages: 499
Registered: April 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Yes I agree that my estimate MIGHT be optimistic. Those were just numbers
off the top of my head and our conversations also included many other things
that I didn't include in my email simply for brevity. We've looked at
several GMCs in our own area, while pointing out the possibility of the
Avion in SC I was simply attempting to demonstrate possible alternatives.
Obviously, and he's an old classic car guy so he understands, there's no way
to even get an approximate cost to make a GMC reliable without looking at it
yourself and evaluating the coach first-hand.
Thanks everyone for the Avion info. Looks like the Edgemont is now also on
his list.
Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert
Mueller
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2014 2:21 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Avion Wanted
Guy,
In my opinion your estimated budget is very optimistic.
Using JimK's website for parts to RESTORE THE AVION'S RUNNING GEAR TO OEM
CONDITION here's a PESSIMISTIC guesstimate:
1) Brakes: M/C = $50, Combination Valve = $99, Calipers = $100, Carbon
Metallic Pads = $65, Sensitized Booster = $250, Front Braided SS Lines =
$76, Rear Braided SS Lines = $150, Middle & Rear wheel cylinders = $50,
Carbon Metallic Brake Shoes = $160: Total: $1000.
2) Steering: Lower Steering Column (AKA Intermediate Steering Shaft) = $524,
Steering Box = $360, Idler Arm = $220, Relay Lever = $360, Tie Rod Ends =
$326, Steering Damper = $40: Total: $1830
3) Front Suspension: Upper & Lower Control Arm Bushings = $160, Upper Ball
Joints = $120, Lower Ball Joints = $250, Shocks = $124, Stabilizer Bar
Grommets = $16, Stabilizer Bar End Link Set = $28, Rebuilt Knuckles = $510,
Rebuilt Knuckles = $490, Front Wheel Bearings & Seals = 160; Total: $1658
4) Rear Suspension: OEM Air Bags = $840, Ride Height Control Panel (JR) =
$380, Ride Height Valves = $186, Shocks = $244, Rear Wheel Bearings = $250,
Rear Bogie Pins = $700, Air Pump = $250: Total: $2630
5) Engine: Coop / Ken Koba = $6500, Dick Paterson = $7500
6) Transmission: Manny Trovao: $1600
7) Final Drive: $1550
8) Body: Pads = $75
Brakes = $1000
Steering= $1830
Front Suspension = $1658
Rear Suspension = $2630
Engine = $6500 / $7500
Transmission = $1600
Final Drive = $1550
Body: $75
Total Parts = $16843 / $17843
YES, this could be considered a WORST CASE SCENARIO but when all these new
parts were installed you would have a GMC with fully restored OEM running
gear.
YES, there are upgrades that would be good to install that could reduce the
cost, HOWEVER, as stated in the second sentence above my intent was to
RESTORE the Avion to OEM condition.
II reckon the labor costs for all this would run between $8k to $10k. I have
not considered shipping costs.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble
TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Guy
Lopes
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2014 4:30 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Avion Wanted
Thanks Rob, RC and all.
I showed this ad to my Bro in-law and suggested that if this is something
that he would be interested in, he could buy the coach, have it shipped to
JimB in Orlando, get a rebuilt engine and tranny, new air bags and new 16"
wheels and tires and be into it for around $15k. Not a bad price for the
coach that you want with reliable running gear. THEN he might have to spend
several thousand more to clean up and repair everything else. Still not a
bad price for what he would get.
Just trying to give him some options.
Guy
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Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Avion Wanted [message #265280 is a reply to message #265222] |
Sun, 02 November 2014 08:03 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Guys,
I looked at this coach in person back when it was part of the estate sale. Unfortunately the pics are on the damaged ipad.
Whether this is a good candidate to restore depends on a lot of personal preferences.
In addition to what Rob observed:
The rear cabinet between the seats was in pieces on the front dinette when I saw it.
All of the curtains were pulled and used in a 77 eleganza he also had for sale.
There is a crack/puncture/damage in the right rear panel above the tail lights - this may be the reason the rear upper cabinets were down and the rear dresser was removed. This appears to be the only body damage.
The woodwork looks good in the photos, but there is a lot of damage to the edges - either a hard life or rodent damage. Unfortunately, there is evidence of both - The coach was used as a tailgate vehicle and there is rodent droppings (and the smell). The edge damage (corners of cabinet drawers, top edge of dinette wood panels) can be repaired so that it is not as noticeable, but a concours level interior will require some cabinetry work.
Engine is toasty, I would expect the same from the trans, but you could get lucky. Basically, it would be safe to assume you need to rebuild/replace everything mechanical on this coach.
Did not get as far as the frame - it was sitting in tall grass with the bags deflated. But rails around here generally just surface rust - solid, just not as pretty as a desert kept frame.
If you are looking to own a concours level avion, start with another, unless you want to rebuild the entire coach. If you just like an avion floorplan, are handy and can do the interior stuff yourself, and don't mind using the wood damage as an excuse to change the dinette to an l-shaped couch/dinette, and perhaps change the drawer fronts to something more modern, this could be a good start. This is what I figured I would do before the realization that one wicked mistress is enough for any man...and I already had one.
This would not be a cheap project, the purchase price would be seen as a pittance by the repairs. But it could be a satisfying one if the proper budget is allocated.
Guy, if they are seriously interested in this one, let me know, and I will try to get the pics off the broken Ipad.
USAussie wrote on Fri, 31 October 2014 20:21G'day,
RC provided this link: https://greenville.craigslist.org/rvs/4704698139.html
I reviewed the photos here's some comments:
1) the dresser between the beds is missing, This is one of the BEST features of an Avion. There is a pull out table in the top that
turns the bedroom into a second dinette. If you are interested ask the seller if it comes with the coach.
2) the driver and passenger seats have been reversed
3) the cabinets in the bedroom are down - no big deal
4) fridge is missing - no big deal
5) two roof airs, front is a replacement carrier the rear appears to be OEM Dometic
6) upholstery appears to be in good condition and mattresses are upholstered
7) woodwork looks good
 headliner appears to be in good shape
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Avion Wanted [message #265285 is a reply to message #265280] |
Sun, 02 November 2014 08:51 |
Guy Lopes
Messages: 499
Registered: April 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Joe,
That is good info and exactly what my Brother in-law needed to hear. He is
in the process of selling his car collection and is looking for a GMC to
fill in for them. Not as a project, but as a user.
Thanks so much for the first-hand account! Isn't this list just the best
thing since... well, you know.
Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Weir
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2014 6:04 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Avion Wanted
Guys,
I looked at this coach in person back when it was part of the estate sale.
Unfortunately the pics are on the damaged ipad.
Whether this is a good candidate to restore depends on a lot of personal
preferences.
In addition to what Rob observed:
The rear cabinet between the seats was in pieces on the front dinette when I
saw it.
All of the curtains were pulled and used in a 77 eleganza he also had for
sale.
There is a crack/puncture/damage in the right rear panel above the tail
lights - this may be the reason the rear upper cabinets were down and the
rear dresser was removed. This appears to be the only body damage.
The woodwork looks good in the photos, but there is a lot of damage to the
edges - either a hard life or rodent damage. Unfortunately, there is
evidence of both - The coach was used as a tailgate vehicle and there is
rodent droppings (and the smell). The edge damage (corners of cabinet
drawers, top edge of dinette wood panels) can be repaired so that it is not
as noticeable, but a concours level interior will require some cabinetry
work.
Engine is toasty, I would expect the same from the trans, but you could get
lucky. Basically, it would be safe to assume you need to rebuild/replace
everything mechanical on this coach.
Did not get as far as the frame - it was sitting in tall grass with the bags
deflated. But rails around here generally just surface rust - solid, just
not as pretty as a desert kept frame.
If you are looking to own a concours level avion, start with another, unless
you want to rebuild the entire coach. If you just like an avion floorplan,
are handy and can do the interior stuff yourself, and don't mind using the
wood damage as an excuse to change the dinette to an l-shaped couch/dinette,
and perhaps change the drawer fronts to something more modern, this could be
a good start. This is what I figured I would do before the realization that
one wicked mistress is enough for any man...and I already had one.
This would not be a cheap project, the purchase price would be seen as a
pittance by the repairs. But it could be a satisfying one if the proper
budget is allocated.
Guy, if they are seriously interested in this one, let me know, and I will
try to get the pics off the broken Ipad.
USAussie wrote on Fri, 31 October 2014 20:21
> G'day,
>
> RC provided this link:
> https://greenville.craigslist.org/rvs/4704698139.html
>
> I reviewed the photos here's some comments:
>
> 1) the dresser between the beds is missing, This is one of the BEST
> features of an Avion. There is a pull out table in the top that turns the
bedroom into a second dinette. If you are interested ask the seller if it
comes with the coach.
>
> 2) the driver and passenger seats have been reversed
>
> 3) the cabinets in the bedroom are down - no big deal
>
> 4) fridge is missing - no big deal
>
> 5) two roof airs, front is a replacement carrier the rear appears to
> be OEM Dometic
>
> 6) upholstery appears to be in good condition and mattresses are
> upholstered
>
> 7) woodwork looks good
>
> 8) headliner appears to be in good shape
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 USA '75 Avion - Double
> Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
--
76 Birchaven - New engine, trans, aluminum radiator, brakes, airbags, fuel
lines, seats, upholstery, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were
really thinking about us second hand owners...
Columbia, SC.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Avion Wanted [message #265305 is a reply to message #265272] |
Sun, 02 November 2014 16:15 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Guy,
I put the email together for general reference as quite often people come on and speculate how much it costs to restore a GMC. They
can use the email below as a WORST CASE SCENARIO for parts.
Actually I'm going to work on it some more as there's a few items I forgot like the Onan, 120VAC / 12VDCconvertor, fuel lines.
Will providing this information to prospective GMC owners, DEFINITELY! However, at least they will get into it with their eyes wide
open if they do decide to take the plunge!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Guy Lopes
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2014 5:12 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Avion Wanted
Yes I agree that my estimate MIGHT be optimistic. Those were just numbers
off the top of my head and our conversations also included many other things
that I didn't include in my email simply for brevity. We've looked at
several GMCs in our own area, while pointing out the possibility of the
Avion in SC I was simply attempting to demonstrate possible alternatives.
Obviously, and he's an old classic car guy so he understands, there's no way
to even get an approximate cost to make a GMC reliable without looking at it
yourself and evaluating the coach first-hand.
Thanks everyone for the Avion info. Looks like the Edgemont is now also on
his list.
Guy Lopes
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Avion Wanted [message #265325 is a reply to message #265166] |
Sun, 02 November 2014 21:02 |
cadelec
Messages: 303
Registered: September 2011
Location: Brisbane Australia
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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not sure if this would do or is even still available. we parked beside this coach at branson last year. it has been stretched and now has the twin bed setup in rear http://rvs.smartcarguide.com/listing/47077611/
Trevor
Brisbane Australia
Siesta Koala 76 Edgemont (old Bobby Moores)
71 Cadillac Eldo Convert
58 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham Project
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| Re: [GMCnet] Avion Wanted [message #265333 is a reply to message #265305] |
Sun, 02 November 2014 22:57 |
Guy Lopes
Messages: 499
Registered: April 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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That's a great idea Rob! Maybe you could add it to Bdub's site too?
Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert
Mueller
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2014 2:16 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Avion Wanted
Guy,
I put the email together for general reference as quite often people come on
and speculate how much it costs to restore a GMC. They can use the email
below as a WORST CASE SCENARIO for parts.
Actually I'm going to work on it some more as there's a few items I forgot
like the Onan, 120VAC / 12VDCconvertor, fuel lines.
Will providing this information to prospective GMC owners, DEFINITELY!
However, at least they will get into it with their eyes wide open if they do
decide to take the plunge!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble
TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Guy
Lopes
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2014 5:12 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Avion Wanted
Yes I agree that my estimate MIGHT be optimistic. Those were just numbers
off the top of my head and our conversations also included many other things
that I didn't include in my email simply for brevity. We've looked at
several GMCs in our own area, while pointing out the possibility of the
Avion in SC I was simply attempting to demonstrate possible alternatives.
Obviously, and he's an old classic car guy so he understands, there's no way
to even get an approximate cost to make a GMC reliable without looking at it
yourself and evaluating the coach first-hand.
Thanks everyone for the Avion info. Looks like the Edgemont is now also on
his list.
Guy Lopes
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Avion Wanted [message #265335 is a reply to message #265325] |
Sun, 02 November 2014 23:16 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I know that coach's owner. It's sure to be in super shape, IMHO. Really
sorry to see it being sold; it's been a while since I've seen him at a
rally. :-(
Ken H.
On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Trevor Pordage
wrote:
> not sure if this would do or is even still available. we parked beside
> this coach at branson last year. it has been stretched and now has the
> twin bed
> setup in rear http://rvs.smartcarguide.com/listing/47077611/
>
> --
> Trevor
> Brisbane Australia
> Siesta Koala 76 Edgemont (old Bobby Moores)
> 71 Cadillac Eldo Convert
> 58 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham Project
>
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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