Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Frame Rust (Can it be patched?)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Frame Rust [message #234388 is a reply to message #234370] |
Sun, 29 December 2013 18:12   |
scott cowden
Messages: 170
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Funny you should mention the rear subframe. I have the same year and model coach as Steve and had to do the same thing to mine last year. In my case, the rear subframe had perforation holes on both sides where it met the main frame rails and again on the rear crossmember between the bumper mounts.
It was, again, fairly clean looking perforations where the erosion of the metal came through from the back side looking like an acid burn hole.
There was a comment about 'northern coaches,' earlier today. I live in Canada, but when I bought my coach, it had had one primary owner over its 30 year life to that point and he lived in Miami Springs FL the whole time.
My front subframe looked very similar to the pics posted today-erosion of the metal at the seams plus holes on the horn over the front wheel. It was the weakness in this area overall that forced my hand for a full frame replacement. the area was simply not strong enough to accept the stress of a major repair. Remember, the site of the weld becomes the stress point between the reinforcement and the existing frame.I would suggest before simply attempting to reinforce the front frame that a thorough evaluation of the state of the metal overall be investigated. Any welds attempted need to be in areas where the receiving metal is still full thickness.
A lot to consider here, for sure. I got lucky and found a guy stripping a couple of coaches when I needed a subframe. There are coaches being stripped, but distance from you to them is always a consideration. If you can get a good frame for a few hundred bucks, it's a good option. If, however, the closest part is halfway across the country, that's another thing...
Good luck.
Let me know if i can help.
Scott
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: midlf@centurytel.net
> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 15:59:09 -0600
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Frame Rust
>
>
>
> dpottebaum wrote on Sun, 29 December 2013 08:34
> > I need your advice please. Is this a repairable spot, or will I need to put a different front frame section on my coach? I hope it can just be patched, but I don't want an unsafe condition. Have any of you ever seen rust through in this area of the frame?
>
>
>
> Been there, done that. See here:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6096-front-subframe-repair.html
>
> I had the advantage that my frame was out but all the patches I installed could be done with the subframe installed. Some would be a PITA but could be done. A professional welder should be able to take care of this if you are not comfortable doing it yourself.
>
> If you have any questions about what I did please ask as I have not yet added any text to those photos.
> --
> Steve Southworth
> 1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
> 1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
> Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Frame Rust [message #234395 is a reply to message #234393] |
Sun, 29 December 2013 19:20 |
scott cowden
Messages: 170
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Yeah, Stick, I wondered about that myself. In reality, a bit of salt and some metal with little resistance to acidic or alkali solutions and its off to the races wherever you live!
I know that Dan Stuckey does a heck of a job with main rail replacements. the subframes would be quite difficult to duplicate, I think, with the formed and welded sections being shaped as they are. It would be a great asset to have access to subframes as replacement parts without the 'arm-and-a-leg,' price of a custom made one-off.
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: stickmiller@gmail.com
> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 18:52:41 -0600
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Frame Rust
>
>
>
> scott cowden wrote on Sun, 29 December 2013 19:12
> > it had had one primary owner over its 30 year life to that point and he lived in Miami Springs FL the whole time.
>
>
>
> Miami IS up north, isn't it? :)
>
> Seriously, lots of things have succumbed to the salt air in Florida. Not sure this is the case here, but there are some rusty old cars in Florida.
>
> ...but what a way to go.
>
> --
> Stick Miller
> '78 Royale - she left me for another man
> '76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie"
> Americus, Georgia
>
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Frame Rust [message #234396 is a reply to message #234388] |
Sun, 29 December 2013 19:35 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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Hi, Scott!
I grew up (?) in the snow and salt district in western NY but I had forgotten how quickly corrosion can come about in coastal south Florida. Wife and I were married in Boynton Beach (Palm Beach County) on New Year's Eve 1960. In December 2007, I bought her a 2007 Harley that was only six months old and had only 32 miles on it. Its home was Palm Beach (on the island) and there is noticable corrosion on aluminum parts.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> From: scottyforsail@hotmail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 00:12:53 +0000
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Frame Rust
>
>
> Funny you should mention the rear subframe. I have the same year and model coach as Steve and had to do the same thing to mine last year. In my case, the rear subframe had perforation holes on both sides where it met the main frame rails and again on the rear crossmember between the bumper mounts.
>
> It was, again, fairly clean looking perforations where the erosion of the metal came through from the back side looking like an acid burn hole.
>
> There was a comment about 'northern coaches,' earlier today. I live in Canada, but when I bought my coach, it had had one primary owner over its 30 year life to that point and he lived in Miami Springs FL the whole time.
>
> My front subframe looked very similar to the pics posted today-erosion of the metal at the seams plus holes on the horn over the front wheel. It was the weakness in this area overall that forced my hand for a full frame replacement. the area was simply not strong enough to accept the stress of a major repair. Remember, the site of the weld becomes the stress point between the reinforcement and the existing frame.I would suggest before simply attempting to reinforce the front frame that a thorough evaluation of the state of the metal overall be investigated. Any welds attempted need to be in areas where the receiving metal is still full thickness.
>
> A lot to consider here, for sure. I got lucky and found a guy stripping a couple of coaches when I needed a subframe. There are coaches being stripped, but distance from you to them is always a consideration. If you can get a good frame for a few hundred bucks, it's a good option. If, however, the closest part is halfway across the country, that's another thing...
>
> Good luck.
>
> Let me know if i can help.
>
> Scott
>
> > To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> > From: midlf@centurytel.net
> > Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 15:59:09 -0600
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Frame Rust
> >
> >
> >
> > dpottebaum wrote on Sun, 29 December 2013 08:34
> > > I need your advice please. Is this a repairable spot, or will I need to put a different front frame section on my coach? I hope it can just be patched, but I don't want an unsafe condition. Have any of you ever seen rust through in this area of the frame?
> >
> >
> >
> > Been there, done that. See here:
> >
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6096-front-subframe-repair.html
> >
> > I had the advantage that my frame was out but all the patches I installed could be done with the subframe installed. Some would be a PITA but could be done. A professional welder should be able to take care of this if you are not comfortable doing it yourself.
> >
> > If you have any questions about what I did please ask as I have not yet added any text to those photos.
> > --
> > Steve Southworth
> > 1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
> > 1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
> > Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Frame Rust [message #234401 is a reply to message #234396] |
Sun, 29 December 2013 20:43 |
dwayne jacobson[1]
Messages: 345
Registered: July 2009
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Just did the math Mac. That makes your wedding bed 13 years older than the
oldest gmc coach this New Years Eve. Any rust?
Happy Anniversary and Happy New Year.
From the West Coast
Dwayne and Sharon Jacobson
White Rock
77 Kingsley
dwayne j
On 2013-12-29 5:35 PM, "D C _Mac_ Macdonald" <k2gkk@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, Scott!
>
>
>
> I grew up (?) in the snow and salt district in western NY but I had
> forgotten how quickly corrosion can come about in coastal south Florida.
> Wife and I were married in Boynton Beach (Palm Beach County) on New Year's
> Eve 1960. In December 2007, I bought her a 2007 Harley that was only six
> months old and had only 32 miles on it. Its home was Palm Beach (on the
> island) and there is noticable corrosion on aluminum parts.
>
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
> ~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
> ~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
> ~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
> ~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
> ~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ______________
> *[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
> *--OO--[]---O-*
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > From: scottyforsail@hotmail.com
> > To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> > Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 00:12:53 +0000
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Frame Rust
> >
> >
> > Funny you should mention the rear subframe. I have the same year and
> model coach as Steve and had to do the same thing to mine last year. In my
> case, the rear subframe had perforation holes on both sides where it met
> the main frame rails and again on the rear crossmember between the bumper
> mounts.
> >
> > It was, again, fairly clean looking perforations where the erosion of
> the metal came through from the back side looking like an acid burn hole.
> >
> > There was a comment about 'northern coaches,' earlier today. I live in
> Canada, but when I bought my coach, it had had one primary owner over its
> 30 year life to that point and he lived in Miami Springs FL the whole time.
> >
> > My front subframe looked very similar to the pics posted today-erosion
> of the metal at the seams plus holes on the horn over the front wheel. It
> was the weakness in this area overall that forced my hand for a full frame
> replacement. the area was simply not strong enough to accept the stress of
> a major repair. Remember, the site of the weld becomes the stress point
> between the reinforcement and the existing frame.I would suggest before
> simply attempting to reinforce the front frame that a thorough evaluation
> of the state of the metal overall be investigated. Any welds attempted need
> to be in areas where the receiving metal is still full thickness.
> >
> > A lot to consider here, for sure. I got lucky and found a guy stripping
> a couple of coaches when I needed a subframe. There are coaches being
> stripped, but distance from you to them is always a consideration. If you
> can get a good frame for a few hundred bucks, it's a good option. If,
> however, the closest part is halfway across the country, that's another
> thing...
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> > Let me know if i can help.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > > To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> > > From: midlf@centurytel.net
> > > Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 15:59:09 -0600
> > > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Frame Rust
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > dpottebaum wrote on Sun, 29 December 2013 08:34
> > > > I need your advice please. Is this a repairable spot, or will I need
> to put a different front frame section on my coach? I hope it can just be
> patched, but I don't want an unsafe condition. Have any of you ever seen
> rust through in this area of the frame?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Been there, done that. See here:
> > >
> > > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6096-front-subframe-repair.html
> > >
> > > I had the advantage that my frame was out but all the patches I
> installed could be done with the subframe installed. Some would be a PITA
> but could be done. A professional welder should be able to take care of
> this if you are not comfortable doing it yourself.
> > >
> > > If you have any questions about what I did please ask as I have not
> yet added any text to those photos.
> > > --
> > > Steve Southworth
> > > 1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
> > > 1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
> > > Palmyra WI
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: Frame Rust [message #234402 is a reply to message #234326] |
Sun, 29 December 2013 20:55 |
dpottebaum
Messages: 100
Registered: January 2013
Location: Bondurant, Iowa
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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|
Well, there's been a wealth of information shared today. Thank you to all of you for your insights. The pictures of the rust "chunks" or large "flakes" are exactly what came out of the inside of my frame. I need to go over it all again to make certain I have not missed any other spots. Seems strange to just have one spot, especially since it was not a bottom or seam. If this is the only spot, I will repair it. If I find out that I really have a piece of Swiss cheese, I will use the extra sub frame from my '76.
On that note, a fellow mentioned that a '78 front sub frame is different than a 76 sub frame. The difference has not jumped out at me. Will someone please point out the difference if they are in fact different? Thanks again folks.
Dave Pottebaum
Bondurant, Iowa
1978 Royale
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| Re: Frame Rust [message #234454 is a reply to message #234402] |
Mon, 30 December 2013 11:19 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| dpottebaum wrote on Sun, 29 December 2013 20:55 |
Well, there's been a wealth of information shared today. Thank you to all of you for your insights. The pictures of the rust "chunks" or large "flakes" are exactly what came out of the inside of my frame. I need to go over it all again to make certain I have not missed any other spots. Seems strange to just have one spot, especially since it was not a bottom or seam. If this is the only spot, I will repair it. If I find out that I really have a piece of Swiss cheese, I will use the extra sub frame from my '76.
|
In my pictures you will notice all the shiny black paint. I carefully went over my subframe with a ball peen hammer before I sent it out for de-rust (and paint stripping) treatment. I could find no weak spots when I did this everywhere. It sounded good and solid everywhere.
So I sent it off to the de-rust and had it e-coated. On it's return I found a small hole and then started looking and found the rest. I was not happy. I went over those areas again with the ball peen hammer and they still sounded good. Next I tried a very small ball peen. Still sounded good. With rawhide hammer I thought I could hear some difference. Using just my knuckles the thin spots were easily detected.
If I ever do this again I will have the item returned after de-rust for inspection and possible repair before sending out for e-coat.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Frame Rust [message #234466 is a reply to message #234401] |
Mon, 30 December 2013 13:48 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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Thanks, Dwayne and Sharon.
We still have the first bedroom set we bought in 1961. It's on its third or fourth mattress, though. It was a double and some years ago, we bought different side rails to put a queen mattress set on it. Some 25 years ago we bought a California King water bed and matching furniture and move the original to guest room service.
The water bag was punctured when tornado took the house in 1999 but the furniture survived and now has a Tempurpedic mattress in the "hole." We are old, the marriage is, and a lot of the stuff we own and use has been around for almost all of that 53 years. We are sort of packrats.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~~ k2gkk @ hotmail dot com ~~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Cheers and Happy New Year to all!
> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 18:43:48 -0800
> From: dwayne.jacobson@gmail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Frame Rust
>
> Just did the math Mac. That makes your wedding bed 13 years older than the
> oldest gmc coach this New Years Eve. Any rust?
> Happy Anniversary and Happy New Year.
> From the West Coast
> Dwayne and Sharon Jacobson
> White Rock
> 77 Kingsley
>
> dwayne j
> On 2013-12-29 5:35 PM, "D C _Mac_ Macdonald" <k2gkk@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi, Scott!
> >
> >
> >
> > I grew up (?) in the snow and salt district in western NY but I had
> > forgotten how quickly corrosion can come about in coastal south Florida.
> > Wife and I were married in Boynton Beach (Palm Beach County) on New Year's
> > Eve 1960. In December 2007, I bought her a 2007 Harley that was only six
> > months old and had only 32 miles on it. Its home was Palm Beach (on the
> > island) and there is noticable corrosion on aluminum parts.
> >
> > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> > ~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
> > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> > ______________
> > *[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
> > *--OO--[]---O-*
_______________________________________________
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