Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC
| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147940 is a reply to message #147934] |
Thu, 27 October 2011 12:03   |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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good to have you here
gene
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:11 AM, Marc Hogenboom
<marc.hogenboom@hotmail.com>wrote:
> Yes Gene, I do!
> Busy building a workshop and living at the same time.
> A lot of work for a retired guy!
> Marc Hogenboom
> '73 Painted Desert Diesel
> Madrid NM
>
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> From: mr.erfisher@gmail.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:10 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC
>
> Wow. Marc lives :)
> Gene
>
> FREE WIFI @ Mickey D
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 27, 2011, at 9:05 AM, "Marc Hogenboom" <marc.hogenboom@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Ken and Rob,
> > That is what was done to my Onan.
> > The connection of the field wiring was changed and a custom electronic
> > regulator was built.
> > The guys that did this moved on to new and exiting projects and I cant
> get
> > them to write down exactly what they did.
> > The engine speed was adjusted to get close to 50 Hz, and this seems be be
> > no
> > problem.
> >
> > Marc Hogenboom
> > '73 Painted Desert Diesel
> > Madrid NM
> >
> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> > From: Ken Henderson
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:48 AM
> > To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC
> >
> > Rob,
> >
> > Now that I've slept on it, I have another idea; one that reconciles
> Marc's
> > experience with the physical design of the Onan: It MAY be possible to
> > replace the voltage regulator to allow more field current and
> consequently
> > higher output voltage from the rotating armature. That would yield
> simple
> > single phase power, as used in Australia and Europe. It would NOT
> provide
> > the split phase 120x2 vac power we use in the US. That pattern would
> > require two separate sets of windings; and 3 slip rings, on the armature
> > rather than the two on the GMC Onans.
> >
> > The replacement regulator might be electronic, or the existing
> compounding
> > reactor might be rebuilt to have different characteristics, including
> > resonance at 50 Hz vs 60 Hz. In either case, the engine would need to be
> > run at 5/6 of 1800, or 1500 rpm, as you mentioned.
> >
> > But it's still a WAG on my part as to whether it's practical. :-)
> >
> > Ken H.
> > Americus, GA
> > '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> > www.gmcwipersetc.com
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Ken Henderson
> > <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> >
> >> Rob,
> >>
> >> I just read the chart more carefully: It describes the NH as a 120/240
> >> vac
> >> generator. So they must have made one different than ours (or the
> >> chart's
> >> in errror). If you check the schematic in the major maintenance manual
> >> which I have, you'll see that there's only one winding, so it cannot be
> >> split as described (the connection terminology is even different than
> >> described).
> >>
> >> Ken H.
> >> Americus, GA
> >> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> >> www.gmcwipersetc.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Ken Henderson
> >> <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> >>
> >>> Rob,
> >>>
> >>> The BGE and NHE series Onan's are later designs, of completely
> different
> >>> construction, than then NH series in the GMC's. The NH cannot be
> >>> converted
> >>> to 220 vac without rewinding -- and probably other changes too
> extensive
> >>> to
> >>> be practical.
> >>>
> >>> Here's an Onan history w/charts of different series:
> >>> http://www.perr.com/onan.html
> >>>
> >>> I think Mark Hogenboom may have gotten his NH modified in Holland.
> >>>
> >>> Ken H.
> >>> Americus, GA
> >>> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> >>> www.gmcwipersetc.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Rob Mueller
> >>> <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> G'day,
> >>>>
> >>>> I was perusing a list of old GMCnet contributions when I ran across
> >>>> this:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> ***********************************************************************************
> >>>>
> >>>> How do I get 220 volts out of my Onan?
> >>>>
> >>>> I (actually my chief engineer) split the two coils to provide separate
> >>>> 110 to two separate circuits. Two 110 hots and a ground give
> >>>> you 220 if needed. In the installation manual for BGE, NHE Gensets
> >>>> Manual
> >>>> #965-0628 of 2-92 page 7-4 the schematic #611-1206 for
> >>>> 60HZ generator.
> >>>>
> >>>> He moved:
> >>>> T4 From L0 to L2
> >>>> T3 From L1 to L0
> >>>> CB2 From L1 to L2
> >>>>
> >>>> This is a totally unauthorized switch and what you do is up to you.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> ***********************************************************************************
> >>>>
> >>>> Comments appreciated.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Rob M.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147943 is a reply to message #147932] |
Thu, 27 October 2011 12:19 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Marc Hogenboom[2 |
wrote on Thu, 27 October 2011 12:05]Ken and Rob,
That is what was done to my Onan.
The connection of the field wiring was changed and a custom electronic regulator was built.
The guys that did this moved on to new and exiting projects and I cant get them to write down exactly what they did.
The engine speed was adjusted to get close to 50 Hz, and this seems be be no problem.
Marc Hogenboom
'73 Painted Desert Diesel
Madrid NM
|
Marc,
First, With as much as I know about electric machines, I am surprised that this was actually possible what with design the limits of such machines.
Next, After you get through building a kitchen and a garage, find some local tech guy and have him look over the whole thing as document it. Particularly the custom built voltage regulator. You need to have component values and device numbers. Someday something may happen, and things may be damaged such that decoding it then will be a more serious task. With documentation, repair may be simple.
Me - I try always document and label everything like I would like to have it if I was the poor guy that had to work it next. KenH's labels on everything is a good start.
Thank You for reading this....
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147944 is a reply to message #147901] |
Thu, 27 October 2011 12:23 |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| sgltrac wrote on Wed, 26 October 2011 21:18 |
So if one did have a 6kw onan and wanted to run a 240v device such as a ----- welder for example, what is the best way to accomplish such a task w/o replacing the generator (got a lot of time into the barbarian and actually kinda love it). ????
Sully
77 royale (barbarian works bitchin)
|
I had a 4000 Watt 120 volt only Trace inverter on my solar system and wanted to run my well pump which is 240 volt on it when the power went out here. I found a surplus 120 to 240 volt transformer and used it. It was only a 1000 watt rated transformer, but transformers can take a large overload for short time periods, like the pump run of a couple of minutes.
I now use the same transformer setup with my 3000 watt Honda inverter generator to run the pump (the solar system has been moved to a friend's off grid ranch in NM).
Rather than modifying the generator, probably the best solution is a transformer. If you want two 120 volt legs and 240 on the outer hot lines, you would need a center taped 240 volt winding. They are available, but unless you find one surplus like I did, they are expensive. All of them are heavy. I have a second one I found at Goodwill for $5. It is a 2000 watt rated unit. Lucky me, eh?
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147951 is a reply to message #147887] |
Thu, 27 October 2011 13:34 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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On Oct 26, 2011, at 7:56 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
> Rob,
>
> I just read the chart more carefully: It describes the NH as a 120/240 vac
> generator. So they must have made one different than ours (or the chart's
> in errror). If you check the schematic in the major maintenance manual
> which I have, you'll see that there's only one winding, so it cannot be
> split as described (the connection terminology is even different than
> described).
>
Ken
That is not an error. The model NH was also available in a 240 volt configuration but it is not the same as the NH used in the GMC motorhomes.
The model number designations have changed over the years but the one that should be on the Onans used in GMCs is typically formatted like this:
6.0 NH - 1 R 9500 A
| | | | | |
1 2 3 4 5 6
where :
1. indicates kilowatt rating.
2. Series identification.
3. Voltage code of the generator (1=120 volts)
4. Method of starting (R = remote)
5. Factory code for designating optional equipment, if any.
6. Specification letter which advances when the factory makes production modifications.
For the voltage code, there are 26 different ones for 60 cycle but I will not list them all. There are 5 other AC frequencies available and there are 16 DC generators and 6 welders.
1=120 volt, 1 phase, 2 wire
1X (was 11)=120 volt, 3 phase, 3 wire
2=240 volt, 1 phase, 2 wire
3=120/240 volt, 1 phase, 2 wire
3C=120,240,120/240, 1 phase, 4 wire
The code 1 is not modifiable to a 240 volt system. I would think that the one marked 3 is convertible. I rather doubt that we will find it in our GMCs though.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147975 is a reply to message #147872] |
Thu, 27 October 2011 18:48 |
|
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Ken is here at the Classics rally. Â Do you need me to relay a quesfion?
-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC
From: Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
CC: Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
On Oct 26, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
>
> I was at a Rally that Glyn Trimble organized in OK a couple of years ago where I met a gentleman that worked for Onan and built the
> generators we have in our GMC's. He told me that these generators were not only for the GMC / RV market but were also sold as remote
> generators for all kinds of facilities. He noted that they did make them in different voltage / cycle models for export.
>
Rob
That rally was a GMC Classics rally at Shawnee, OK. in the summer of 2006.
The fellow that gave that talk on Onans was Ken Broostin.
Robert Musgrove could probably tell you how to get ahold of him.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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bdub
bdub.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147978 is a reply to message #147950] |
Thu, 27 October 2011 18:55 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Emery,
Thanks!
Ken's name sounds familiar.
With a bit of luck Ken will attend the Shawnee, OK GMCMI Convention next spring and I'll corral him and I'll have a chat with him.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Emery Stora
Rob
That rally was a GMC Classics rally at Shawnee, OK. in the summer of 2006.
The fellow that gave that talk on Onans was Ken Broostin.
Robert Musgrove could probably tell you how to get ahold of him.
Emery
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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