Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils
| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109480 is a reply to message #109469] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 17:42   |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 16:54 |
Larry,
I went to SAE 40 Royal Purple because I think it is an oil consumption issue
related to engine speed and going to a single viscosity oil might help. This
may be wishful thinking but I had a chat with the manager of the NAPA store
where I bought the oil and the Royal Purple customer service engineer and
the consensus that it would be worth a try to see what happens. If it didn't
help it was an engine / ring / valve guide issue.
The engine in Double Trouble was rebuilt by Ken Frey about 50,000 miles ago,
had no sludge in the valve covers when I replaced the gaskets, no sludge in
lifter valley just the "normal" burnt on crud when I swapped over to the
aluminum manifold, and virtually none in the crankcase when I replaced the
single drain oil pan with the dual drain.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 4:19 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils
you are aware that it takes some time for all the oil to run back to the pan
so when you stop for gas your oil will always read low for about 20 minutes.
Fred V
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i've had consumption problems since buying my coach in '06. i first went to Mobil 1 oil with no change. since then i've changed the intake valve seals to the "positive seal" type, changed to the proper PCV valve, changed to the correct valve covers, calibrated the dip stick, all with no change in oil consumption. my engine was rebuilt 20K miles ago by the PO. i suspect a bad rebuild, probably rings or loose fitting pistons. i gave up and am looking for an engine to build and have ready when needed.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109491 is a reply to message #109378] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 18:42 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Shan,
I got RP SAE 40 Heavy Duty Synthetic Motor Oil P/N 01040. I called RP Tech
Support and they advise that it has over 1200 ppm ZDDP.
If my oil consumption drops I'll buy 5 gallons of the stuff and use the
second case of quart bottles when traveling.
The PCV valve was changed a year ago but I will check it again.
I bought two cases of it as I intend to put it in the green monster Onan
too. I will use one kind of oil (RP SAE40) and one kind of grease (Valvoline
Synpower) on everything in the coach.
Each year at the end of our tour the oil in the engine and Onan gets
changed, and everything gets greased. We usually do around 4-5 thousand
miles in the 3 months we're there so that's just about right.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Shan Rose
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 7:33 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils
Robert, did you get the racing grade or standard grade of RP? I think you
will like the results. RP's Racing grade oil has about 1/3rd more zddp
additive in the oild for those hard and high lifting bumpsticks usually
found in racing apps. If you are having oil consumption issues I suggest
taking a look at the PCV valve if that bugger gets stuck open it will inhale
oil through the valve cover in short order. I would put an oil seporator in
the PCV line and see what it catches, I'd bet that's where you are loosing
your oil!
As for getting RP on the cheap, consider ordering it in the 5 gallon pail.
That will give u enough for about 4 changes plus top off. Also remember that
the green beast out back loves RP too! So feeding it some would also make it
happy. IIRC a pail of RP could be had for about 150 or so. Also EP can be
run to about 6k miles so it has double or more the life of standard oil but
do an oil test at blackstone to figuere out the best OCI for your rig...
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109503 is a reply to message #109480] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 20:19 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Fred,
I can appreciate how frustrating this has been for you.
If I remember you have also done compression tests and the results were guite good -- indicative of a strong engine. Really a puzzler.
Dennis
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: fred veenschoten <fredntoni@cox.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2010 5:42 pm
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils
Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 16:54
Larry,
I went to SAE 40 Royal Purple because I think it is an oil consumption issue
related to engine speed and going to a single viscosity oil might help. This
may be wishful thinking but I had a chat with the manager of the NAPA store
where I bought the oil and the Royal Purple customer service engineer and
the consensus that it would be worth a try to see what happens. If it didn't
help it was an engine / ring / valve guide issue.
The engine in Double Trouble was rebuilt by Ken Frey about 50,000 miles ago,
had no sludge in the valve covers when I replaced the gaskets, no sludge in
lifter valley just the "normal" burnt on crud when I swapped over to the
aluminum manifold, and virtually none in the crankcase when I replaced the
single drain oil pan with the dual drain.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 4:19 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils
you are aware that it takes some time for all the oil to run back to the pan
so when you stop for gas your oil will always read low for about 20 minutes.
Fred V
i've had consumption problems since buying my coach in '06. i first went to
obil 1 oil with no change. since then i've changed the intake valve seals to
he "positive seal" type, changed to the proper PCV valve, changed to the
orrect valve covers, calibrated the dip stick, all with no change in oil
onsumption. my engine was rebuilt 20K miles ago by the PO. i suspect a bad
ebuild, probably rings or loose fitting pistons. i gave up and am looking for
n engine to build and have ready when needed.
--
red V
77 Royale RB 455
'cola, Fl
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MCnet mailing list
ist Information and Subscription Options:
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109521 is a reply to message #109503] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 22:53 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Fred, one of the GMC Cascaders just rebuilt his 455 and it was using oil
like crazy. He was using a Rockwell aluminum intake manifold with throttle
body FI. What he found was his intake manifold didn't have a good seal to
the valley, and it was injesting oil from that source. He removed the intake
& resealed it & his oil burning stopped. Engine ran very well and the plugs
looked good. Had us scratching our heads for a while before he found it.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Dennis S <dennisfsexton@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Fred,
> I can appreciate how frustrating this has been for you.
> If I remember you have also done compression tests and the results were
> guite good -- indicative of a strong engine. Really a puzzler.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> Dennis Sexton
> 73 GMC
> Germantown, TN
> USA
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fred veenschoten <fredntoni@cox.net>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2010 5:42 pm
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils
>
>
>
> Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 16:54
> Larry,
>
> I went to SAE 40 Royal Purple because I think it is an oil consumption
> issue
> related to engine speed and going to a single viscosity oil might help.
> This
> may be wishful thinking but I had a chat with the manager of the NAPA
> store
> where I bought the oil and the Royal Purple customer service engineer and
> the consensus that it would be worth a try to see what happens. If it
> didn't
> help it was an engine / ring / valve guide issue.
>
> The engine in Double Trouble was rebuilt by Ken Frey about 50,000 miles
> ago,
> had no sludge in the valve covers when I replaced the gaskets, no sludge
> in
> lifter valley just the "normal" burnt on crud when I swapped over to the
> aluminum manifold, and virtually none in the crankcase when I replaced the
> single drain oil pan with the dual drain.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 4:19 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils
>
>
>
> you are aware that it takes some time for all the oil to run back to the
> pan
> so when you stop for gas your oil will always read low for about 20
> minutes.
>
> Fred V
> i've had consumption problems since buying my coach in '06. i first went to
> obil 1 oil with no change. since then i've changed the intake valve seals
> to
> he "positive seal" type, changed to the proper PCV valve, changed to the
> orrect valve covers, calibrated the dip stick, all with no change in oil
> onsumption. my engine was rebuilt 20K miles ago by the PO. i suspect a bad
> ebuild, probably rings or loose fitting pistons. i gave up and am looking
> for
> n engine to build and have ready when needed.
> --
> red V
> 77 Royale RB 455
> 'cola, Fl
> ______________________________________________
> MCnet mailing list
> ist Information and Subscription Options:
> ttp://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109538 is a reply to message #109480] |
Thu, 23 December 2010 05:55 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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Fred,
This is old ground but I'd like to cover it again. At a rally last month,
a new member was talking about his high oil consumption, about a quart per
hundred miles. I asked him the usual question, "how much did you put in at
the last change?" His answer was, "6 qts as per the mechanic". I
reiterated the old explanation about only adding 5 qts after dumping the oil
and changing the filter. Since he was from Albuquerque, he had a few
hundred miles to drive before returning home and he said he'd let it go down
one quart, and closely watch the consumption after that. I got a post
from him shortly after he got home and he said that after that first quart,
he didn't seem to use any additional. Of course, you know this, right?
--
Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109589 is a reply to message #109521] |
Thu, 23 December 2010 17:49 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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| James Hupy wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 22:53 |
Fred, one of the GMC Cascaders just rebuilt his 455 and it was using oil
like crazy. He was using a Rockwell aluminum intake manifold with throttle
body FI. What he found was his intake manifold didn't have a good seal to
the valley, and it was injesting oil from that source. He removed the intake
& resealed it & his oil burning stopped. Engine ran very well and the plugs
looked good. Had us scratching our heads for a while before he found it.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
|
someone else here had that same problem with the alum GMC intake.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109591 is a reply to message #109538] |
Thu, 23 December 2010 17:50 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| Steven Ferguson wrote on Thu, 23 December 2010 05:55 |
Fred,
This is old ground but I'd like to cover it again. At a rally last month,
a new member was talking about his high oil consumption, about a quart per
hundred miles. I asked him the usual question, "how much did you put in at
the last change?" His answer was, "6 qts as per the mechanic". I
reiterated the old explanation about only adding 5 qts after dumping the oil
and changing the filter. Since he was from Albuquerque, he had a few
hundred miles to drive before returning home and he said he'd let it go down
one quart, and closely watch the consumption after that. I got a post
from him shortly after he got home and he said that after that first quart,
he didn't seem to use any additional. Of course, you know this, right?
--
Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
been there, done that, got the tee shirt.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
|
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|
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #109619 is a reply to message #109589] |
Fri, 24 December 2010 06:32 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Poor fitment of the intake is usually, and I mean usually, the result of
decking the block and milling the heads. Quality machine shops provide a
spec sheet on the machine work so there 's no mystery when the assembler is
putting the engine together. It's when they don't supply that information
that the stuff hits the fan.
I saw a GMC engine that had less than 100 miles on it that had leaned out
so bad because of this that most of the pistons had lost chunks of the
tops. The owner said the engine temp never rose above the thermostat,all of
a sudden the engine just started eating itself.
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:49 PM, fred veenschoten <fredntoni@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> James Hupy wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 22:53
> > Fred, one of the GMC Cascaders just rebuilt his 455 and it was using oil
> > like crazy. He was using a Rockwell aluminum intake manifold with
> throttle
> > body FI. What he found was his intake manifold didn't have a good seal to
> > the valley, and it was injesting oil from that source. He removed the
> intake
> > & resealed it & his oil burning stopped. Engine ran very well and the
> plugs
> > looked good. Had us scratching our heads for a while before he found it.
> > Jim Hupy
> > Salem, Or
> > 78 GMC Royale 403
>
> someone else here had that same problem with the alum GMC intake.
>
> --
> Fred V
> '77 Royale RB 455
> P'cola, Fl
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
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| Re: Blackstone Labs and ZDDP oils [message #110726 is a reply to message #109302] |
Mon, 03 January 2011 19:13 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
|
Senior Member |
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I'll say that ZDDP was in oil all those years during non roller lifters as it worked and saved warranty claims. That said more is not better and too high a level results in spauling (pitting) of the polished friction surfaces when the phosphorus levels become evil. A friend of mine has purchased a supply of US (not offshore) pure ZDDP and is working on packaging right now. His theory is one step beyond the 'ZDDPlus thow in one bottle for 5 quarts' theory. This will be for the more concerned (read anal) hobbiest who wants to to get his levels to the exact optimum. You will have to get the spec sheet on the particular oil you are using and then add the appropriate amount to get the end final concentration. He will have charts to expedite the process. If say you are starting with 900PPM oil and want 1200PPM and have 5 quarts you will add X ammount. Also note that as Matt brought up, the longevity part of the equation is not well supported by racing oils which are meant to do a race and be discarded.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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