Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Winterizing the GMC
| Re: Winterizing the GMC [message #105777 is a reply to message #105776] |
Fri, 12 November 2010 10:34   |
stick miller
Messages: 1036
Registered: March 2010
Location: Americus, Georgia
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thanks - does this apply to gas water heat as well as electric? My water heater is located under the kitchen cabinet. Should those valves be easy to see - nothing on a GMC is easy - or should I need to dig for them.
Pictures anyone?
I may not have that bypass since this coach has been in Texas most of its life.
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
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| Re: Winterizing the GMC [message #105778 is a reply to message #105777] |
Fri, 12 November 2010 10:46 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
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If you had one, I'd assume some PO installed it where it could be reached with relative ease (no sense putting one in if you still have to disassemble the cabinet to get at it). It would most likely be a brass t fitting with a tab on it to move the valve from open to bypass. You should see it very, very close to the water heater in and out flow fittings if there is one. Odds are there isn't one there. Your choice whether to put one in or not. If you are going to blow out the lines real well then you probably don't need one. Drain the water heater, drain the white water tank, open all the taps, open all the drains, blow out the lines (20psi or so), empty the tanks, close up the drains, pour some antifreeze in each sink and some in the tanks through the toilet, call it a year.
I prefer to run the antifreeze through the lines, but that's just a personal choice. I drain my white tank and black tank, then use a bypass to put antifreeze directly into the line in at the pump, pump it through the lines, pour some down each drain and directly into the black at the toilet, and call it a year. I got tired of filling the water heater so now I'm using the bypass. However, the drain for the OEM water heater on the GMC floorplan is an absolute nightmare to get at. Hopefully yours is easier.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: Winterizing the GMC [message #105780 is a reply to message #105778] |
Fri, 12 November 2010 11:02 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| jknezek wrote on Fri, 12 November 2010 08:46 |
... However, the drain for the OEM water heater on the GMC floorplan is an absolute nightmare to get at. Hopefully yours is easier.
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The propane water heater installed by Coachman has a drain on the outside of the coach. On my '78 it was just a plug. I replaced it with a valve.
If you do not live in a "cold" area, draining everything and blowing out the lines should provide enough freeze protection. I drain and blow, then use both a water heater by-pass and another valve before the water pump that allows the pump to pull anti-freeze from a jug. After letting it sit for a while, (to mix with the water that can not be blown out) I blow out the anti-freeze into the drains and tanks. Takes about 1 gallon to winterize the Rear Bath Birch.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: Winterizing the GMC [message #105782 is a reply to message #105778] |
Fri, 12 November 2010 11:03 |
stick miller
Messages: 1036
Registered: March 2010
Location: Americus, Georgia
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Thanks - I hate ever to call it a year. I don't think we'll plan on shutting ours down completely. Winter last year was pretty cold but just a few days below freezing.
Ken Henderson is no help. He just goes south if it gets cold. I have to work.
I have an idea that draining the tanks and putting some pink stuff in the traps would probably be enough for us. On a real cold night I can always run the heater. I do want to make sure the macerator pump is protected.
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing the GMC [message #105793 is a reply to message #105782] |
Fri, 12 November 2010 15:21 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Stick,
I wasn't able to escape the coldest days we had last year (what, 23*F a
night or two?). I did basically what you suggest: Drained everything I
could, including the hot water tank, with the built in valves (there should
be several on your coach, including the fresh water tank). Then in the
evenings before freezing weather I opened the cabinets around pipes and
turned on the heater at a low setting.
I've never bought any pink stuff nor had a busted pipe. The polycarbonate
pipe in our coaches is not as burst-prone as copper, and none of them run
overhead.
Ken H.
On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Stick Miller <stickmiller@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
> Thanks - I hate ever to call it a year. I don't think we'll plan on
> shutting ours down completely. Winter last year was pretty cold but just a
> few days below freezing.
>
> Ken Henderson is no help. He just goes south if it gets cold. I have to
> work.
>
> I have an idea that draining the tanks and putting some pink stuff in the
> traps would probably be enough for us. On a real cold night I can always run
> the heater. I do want to make sure the macerator pump is protected.
> --
> Stick (I used to be skinny) Miller
> '78 Royale
> Americus, Georgia
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing the GMC [message #105802 is a reply to message #105793] |
Fri, 12 November 2010 17:06 |
stick miller
Messages: 1036
Registered: March 2010
Location: Americus, Georgia
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Ken - That's about what I thought. I went out tonight and drained the fresh water tank just so I could find the valve. No bypasses on the water heater, but everything is right there in front of you. I think I'll be ok with the minimal stuff we discussed. Hope Florida is as nice this week as it was last week.
It is 70 degrees here.
Matt: I guess I'll have to rely on Mr. Henderson if he ever comes home. thanks
One more edit - looks like I might have a water heater drain somewhere and I can take care of that. Where does one "blow" the lines? I have an air compressor.
As the macerator is system specific, my plan was to drain the black/gray tank with the macerator, run water through it until it runs fresh then add pink stuff till I see pink. OK?
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
[Updated on: Fri, 12 November 2010 17:43] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing the GMC [message #105807 is a reply to message #105802] |
Fri, 12 November 2010 19:41 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| Stick Miller wrote on Fri, 12 November 2010 15:06 |
... Where does one "blow" the lines? I have an air compressor.
...
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You "blow" through the city water connection. You can buy a adapter at most places that have an "RV" section.
"Blow" until the water and mist stops coming out each faucet. (remember the toilet and shower.) Then wait for the water in the lines to collect in the low spots, and blow again. Repeat as much as required.
I also "blow" through the fresh water pump from the valve I added there.
I live where we get hard freezes for a few weeks each year... longer than I want to "heat" the coach. So after the "drain and blow" I put pink stuff in the lines, wait a bit (an hour to a few days) then blow the pink stuff out the same way I blew out the water. The pink stuff goes into the empty drains and tanks. When I install the macator, I would "bump" it to get some anti-freeze into it.
Please note that heating the insides of your coach will NOT protect your tanks or macator.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing the GMC [message #106189 is a reply to message #105793] |
Fri, 19 November 2010 10:00 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
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On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> I wasn't able to escape the coldest days we had last year (what, 23*F a
> night or two?).
>
Show off.
Last February, as I was cutting a path through 30" snow adjacent to the
coach, and as I shoveled up to the door of the coach to allow me to get to
the engine so I could tap the fuel tank for the five gallons I needed to run
the snow blower another eight hours, it occurred to me that for many of us
who are not lazy retired old laggards like you still have to winterize our
coaches. I was in a grumpy mood that day (er, week), what can I say?
Here's my winterizing scheme:
But a first point: I never use the city water connection, and I always keep
the valve from that connection closed (I plumbed valves for everything--I
never depend on plastic check valves). I learned that from Gene Fisher, and
I've passed it along to newbie RV owners I've met. Gene's idea is that if
you only use water from the tank, then 1.) a leak that pops up when you are
out in your towd is at most a 36-gallon problem, not potentially a
3600-gallon problem as fed by the local water system, and 2.) when you run
out of water in the tank, you have another issue that requires moving the
coach to the dump station (I don't use continuous sewer dumps, either--I
want that liquid sloshing around in the waste tank to minimize the formation
of dried...solids).
Year 1:
1. Buy 10 gallons of RV antifreeze. Price: $36, only 1/8 of a Standard GMC
Unit.
2. Drain the system as much as possible by opening the drain on the faucets,
hot water heater and the fresh water tank. Leave the pump off.
3. Pour 9 gallons of RV antifreeze into the freshwater tank. As soon as the
pink stuff starts coming out of the tank drain, close the drain valve. This
protects the drain valve, which on my coach has too much that is horizontal
to be sure that it drains completely by itself.
4. With a hot-water tap open (to minimize air pressure buildup in the water
heater), turn on the pump.
5. When pink stuff starts coming out of the open faucet, you know the water
heater tank is full. Close the hot-water faucet, and open the cold-water
faucets. When pink stuff starts coming out of them, close the faucets.
6. Flush the toilet until pink stuff can be seen in the bowl.
7. Open all the cold-water faucets until the tank runs dry. Don't forget to
run a little of the pink stuff through the shower hose, unless you are sure
you can drain it.
8. Turn off the pump, and open a tap to let any residual pressure drain off.
Note that at this point, I've run pink stuff into the traps of both the
galley sink and the lavatory.
9. Put a clean bucket under the water heater drain (using tubing if
necessary; it's not necessary for me because I do not have a standard water
heater in the standard location).
10. Open the water heater drain and recover the contents of the hot water
tank. Open a hot water tap so that the tank drains without pulling a vacuum.
11. Pour that back into the empty RV Antifreeze bottles. Write the year on
the bottle with a Sharpie. I usually recover all six gallons--some of what
drains comes from the hot water pipes.
12. Take the remaining gallon of RV antifreeze and pour it through the
shower drain.
13. Empty the black tank using the macerator. There will be about four
gallons of pink stuff in the waste tank, and that will provide a good rinse
in the tank as well as leaving residual pink stuff in the macerator.
14. Put the six recovered gallons on the shelf for next year.
Year 2 and thereafter is the same except I buy four gallons instead of ten.
With the six from the previous year, that gives me all ten that I need.
I tried it with fewer than 9 gallons in the freshwater tank, but unless I
could put the coach on a spit and rotate it to the perfect angle, the pump
would suck air before I'd filled the hot water tank and the surge tank
fully. You might save a gallon or two by plumbing a fill hose directly into
the pump, but I tried that one year. When the pink-stuff bottle got down to
about a quarter full, the hose overbalanced it and it tipped over, making a
big mess. So, I paid myself three bucks so that I could try to clean the
pink stuff off of a range of interior surfaces. Not worth it!
Annual cost is about $15, or about 1/20 of a Standard GMC Unit. It is not
worth the redesign of the plumbing around the water heater that would be
required to install a bypass to save $15 a year.
I've never had mold grow in my recovered antifreeze, which is, I suppose, a
pretty good confirmation that I'm doing enough to keep critters out of the
water system. I do sanitize it at least once a year using chlorine, and like
Emery I don't worry about any residual chlorine taste after a good flush of
the system. The chlorine taste is a sign that the system is sanitized.
Considering the amount of pool water I have ingested (I learned to be a
long-distance swimmer a few years ago), I've never minded the chlorine
taste--it tells me that the other...stuff...in the pool is being
neutralized.
Rick "who spent three times the amount of time it takes to follow this
procedure to write it down" Denney
--
'73 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing the GMC [message #106193 is a reply to message #106189] |
Fri, 19 November 2010 10:30 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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On Nov 19, 2010, at 9:00 AM, Richard Denney wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
>
>> I wasn't able to escape the coldest days we had last year (what, 23*F a
>> night or two?).
>>
>
> Here's my winterizing scheme:
>
> Year 1:
>
> 1. Buy 10 gallons of RV antifreeze. Price: $36, only 1/8 of a Standard GMC
> Unit.
>
> 3. Pour 9 gallons of RV antifreeze into the freshwater tank. As soon as the
> pink stuff starts coming out of the tank drain, close the drain valve. This
> protects the drain valve, which on my coach has too much that is horizontal
> to be sure that it drains completely by itself.
>
> Annual cost is about $15, or about 1/20 of a Standard GMC Unit. It is not
> worth the redesign of the plumbing around the water heater that would be
> required to install a bypass to save $15 a year.
>
Your process seems to take quite a bit of time. With a water heater bypass and the llne adapter to pump directly from a gallon bottle of RV antifreeze I can winterize my system in less time that it would take you to pour 9 gallons into your tank.
I installed the bypass over 15 years ago for a cost, at that time, of about $12. Since then I use one gallon of A/F per time which I can usually buy on sale for $2 or 3 dollars. I pump about 3/4 gallon into my lines and use the other 1/4 gallon to pour into the traps
It only took about 20 minutes to install the water heater bypass. There was no redesign involved. Just disconnect the two lines going to the water heater and install the bypass and reconnect the two lines to the bypass. Very simple job.
So, if you are costing about $15 per year then that means that I have saved at least $180 t $200 over the last 15 years and it only takes me about 15 to 20 minutes to do a complete winterizing.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing the GMC [message #106464 is a reply to message #106193] |
Mon, 22 November 2010 15:33 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com> wrote:
> It only took about 20 minutes to install the water heater bypass. There
> was no redesign involved. Just disconnect the two lines going to the water
> heater and install the bypass and reconnect the two lines to the bypass.
> Very simple job.
>
>
Emery, I said I did not have a standard water heater arrangement. I actually
do have the bypass kit, but installing is certainly not a 20-minute job in
my coach. If you could see the way the pipes are routed around my heater
tank, you'd understand.
But winterizing is, or nearly. I might have spent as much as half an hour,
but that included other things as well, like setting my mouse traps.
Rick "JWID, as Arch used to say" Denney
--
'73 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: Winterizing the GMC [message #106695 is a reply to message #106676] |
Thu, 25 November 2010 04:46 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| Don Eddy wrote on Wed, 24 November 2010 20:01 |
I have a 1977 Eleganza II, floor plan 3. ...
<<snipped>>
... The only way I can see to drain the hot water tank is an outside nylon plug behind the gas valve.
My question is: has the hot water tank drained via the main water tank? Or do I need to remove the nylon plug on the outside, if it's what was described somewhere in this thread? ...
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I am fairly sure your Eleganza (GMC upfitted) left the factory with an electric water heater mounted under the counter in the bathroom. They drained through a valve on the water heater and a tube into the wheel well.
BUT.. As you say there is a gas valve, and the PO had made changes, I am thinking you have a PO added propane water heater. It should drain from the outside.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: Winterizing the GMC [message #106700 is a reply to message #106695] |
Thu, 25 November 2010 07:22 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| mike miller wrote on Thu, 25 November 2010 04:46 |
| Don Eddy wrote on Wed, 24 November 2010 20:01 |
I have a 1977 Eleganza II, floor plan 3. ...
<<snipped>>
... The only way I can see to drain the hot water tank is an outside nylon plug behind the gas valve.
My question is: has the hot water tank drained via the main water tank? Or do I need to remove the nylon plug on the outside, if it's what was described somewhere in this thread? ...
|
I am fairly sure your Eleganza (GMC upfitted) left the factory with an electric water heater mounted under the counter in the bathroom. They drained through a valve on the water heater and a tube into the wheel well.
BUT.. As you say there is a gas valve, and the PO had made changes, I am thinking you have a PO added propane water heater. It should drain from the outside.
|
Draining the main tank does not drain the hot water tank.
On GM fitted coaches like mine I have seen a plug or a valve like a radiator drain used. The location is dead center on the bottom of the hot water tank. I removed my valve and installed a small elbow and a ball valve. Then I connected a small hose that exits down into the wheel well using the OEM hole.
Emery was able to install the ball valve vertically (mine is horizontal) and make a straight run down to the wheel well. This is even nicer because he can open it up and if it does not drain he can stick a wire straight up through the valve and into the tank to open it up.
In my case I could not figure out exactly where to drill the hole in the wheel well so I used the offset OEM one. I open my ball valve and hit it with a very brief blast of air from inside the wheel well if necessary.
You do have compressed air available off of your suspension tank. Simply hook a tee and ball valve to the tank and you will have enough air to open up the drain and inflate tires. I do not think there is enough air to blow out the entire water system.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing the GMC [message #106743 is a reply to message #106726] |
Thu, 25 November 2010 22:09 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Don Eddy
<doneddy@communicatingimages.com>wrote:
>
> Any way to check level of water in the hot water tank from what you can
> see here?
>
>
That nylon plug looks to be the drain for the hot water tank. You could fit
up a valve and drain tube there in place of that plug, I suspect. I don't
have that type of tank so I'm guessing a bit, but there must be a drain and
I see no other possibilities.
When I see all that cardboard holding on insulation, my first reaction is to
make sure the fire insurance is paid up, and my second reaction is that the
mice that frequently find their way into my coach would think those grand
accommodations.
Rick "wondering if the tank is already insulated" Denney
--
'73 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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