Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Jim Bounds interesting recent posts
| Re: [GMCnet] Jim Bounds interesting recent posts [message #325920 is a reply to message #325916] |
Fri, 10 November 2017 11:20   |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma:
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Senior Member |
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When burning long chain hydrocarbons, so many by products are created that
it is hard to sort it all out. Today's motor fuels "ain't your fathers
motor fuels". Using a voltage of less than 2 volts to tell you what your
air fuel ratio is, is an exercise in futility, in my opinion. Lamda is only
the tip of the iceberg. Lean means one thing with leaded fuels, something
else entirely with alcohol blended fuels. The refrigeration effect of
various fuels is all over the map as well. It is not likely to improve any
time soon.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Nov 10, 2017 8:55 AM, "Jim Kanomata" wrote:
> Keith,
> We acquired a Lambda meter back in 1994 to help program the Hal Tech ECM
> that I was running. Back then it was a $ 2,200 instrument.
> We used that to help us with EFI as well as carb units.
> Until then, I had no idea of how the ratio was based.
> Since graduation from engineering, I just don't have the mind to get into
> details like I should.
> Glad to see that you understand. Thanks.
>
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 8:21 AM, Keith V wrote:
>
>> I'm still trying to figure out exactly what E10 looks like on a O2
> Sensor,
>> I have a wide band sensor I use with my carb.
>>
>> From what I understand, an O2 sensor doesn't actually measure air fuel
>> ratio directly but computes it from oxygen in the exhaust.
>>
>> This measurement is called Lamda. A Lambda of 1 gives you a
> stoichiometric
>> AFR no matter what the fuel mix
>>
>> So if you add ethanol the indicated AFR is incorrect, but an AFR of 14.7
> (
>> a Lambda of 1 ) is still stoichiometric.
>>
>>
>> I think that anyone tuning anything these days has no excuse to not be
>> running a WB O2, theyre cheap and accurate.
>>
>>
>> The other question is where on the AFR curve should we be running.
>>
>> I'm betting about stoichiometric or slightly richer. But no one seems to
>> be publishing that info
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Gmclist on behalf of Gerald
> Work > glwork@mac.com>
>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 9:58:58 AM
>> To: GMC Motor Home Post
>> Subject: [GMCnet] Jim Bounds interesting recent posts
>>
>> I have followed with interest his comments about why carbs no longer work
>> (todays gas won’t vaporize correctly for use in a carb) and now why our
>> engines are blowing up mote frequently (they run too hot under some
>> condition).
>>
>> Take a look at the presentation I did on Fitech (
>> http://www.bdub.net/FiTech_is_the_Real_Deal.pdf). Near the end are two
>> important slides that I think help explain what he is saying. The slide
>> with the two charts is very telling. Those charts are based on an engine
>> running pure gasoline with a stoichiometric air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1.
> One
>> chart shows peak power at an air fuel ratio of around 12.5:1 (quite rich)
>> while peak economy is around 16:1 (way too lean for our engines to
> survive
>> for very long). Those charts are based on UNADULTERATED gasoline. The
>> curves for gasoline laced with alcohol would look much differently.
>>
>> The slide on the next page shows stoichiometric A/F ratios for various
>> chemical compounds. For octane it is 15:1, for ethanol it is 9:1. We
> not
>> only have been adding ethanol, we have also added a number of other
>> distillates and removed others. So, just as he has been saying,
> everything
>> we learned about engines when we were all much younger is out the window
>> given whatever it is we now pump into our fuel tanks. Just for giggles,
>> see what happens to those curves if the only change was adding 10%
>> alcohol. The stoichiometric would shift from 14.7 to 14.1. Now guess
> what
>> happens if you go to lean, either because you reprogram your fuel
> injection
>> to do that, or because your carb gets dirty inside and does it on its own
>> without you even knowing it, or because you monkey around with the jets,
>> air correctors, power valve springs, etc. in the hope of better mileage.
>> On flat land you might get away with that if you drive at 50 to 60 mph
>> where the air drag is low, but climb any kind of hill or load the engine
> up
>> with head wind or by speeding up and you will quickly be running way too
>> lean for the conditions and way to hot for any kind of engine longevity.
>> Just what he has been saying.
>>
>> I am not a petroleum engineer so don’t know for sure how those curves
>> change shape for whatever is in our fuel today, but my guess is however
>> those curves change the result is we should now be striving to burn MORE
>> FUEL day in and day out if we want to keep these old engines healthy.
> I’m
>> going to guess there is a direct correlation between fuel consumption and
>> engine life. Likely 8mpg is around the BEST one should shoot for these
>> days.
>>
>> How many times have we heard people say that their coaches ran much
> better
>> and got much better fuel economy driving in Canada on premium fuel with
> no
>> alcohol. The only way that could happen is if that coach was set up way
>> too lean for driving on gasoline laced with alcohol. My thoughts anyway.
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> Jerry Work
>> The Dovetail Joint
>> Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic
> Temple
>> building in historic Kerby, OR
>>
>> glwork@mac.com
>> http://jerrywork.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
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