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Re: [GMCnet] Awesome Duracool new report [message #261350 is a reply to message #261339] Mon, 08 September 2014 23:30 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma:
Senior Member
Ernest,

FYI in Australia we have been using HyChill for donkeys years and there has NEVER been any incident like the ones pictured in the
video.

Here's a link to their website: http://www.hychill.com.au/

With all due respect I find it fascinating that the email below extols the virtues of those individuals that developed Freon but at
the end it states:

Side Note: CFCs, or Freon, are now infamous for greatly adding to the depletion of the earth's ozone shield.

I'm not a tree hugger but I reckon that's a HELL of a lot worse than what the HC12a can do / does!

At the end of the day if hydrocarbon based refrigeration gas was SO dangerous why didn't that video, the EPA, 134A manufacturers
publish documented incidents instead of showing BOGUS tests! Piping three cans of 12a into the vehicle and igniting it with a
candle, are they kidding? What a lot of BS!

Regards,
Rob M.

-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ernest Dankert
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 8:53 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Awesome Duracool new report

So here is my $0.02. First off I was employed by DuPont for 37 in a technical capacity.

Here is some history from "the inventors dot org"

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Refrigerators from the late 1800s until 1929 used the toxic gases, ammonia (NH3), methyl chloride (CH3Cl), and sulfur dioxide (SO2),
as refrigerants.
Several fatal accidents occurred in the 1920s because of methyl chloride leakage from refrigerators. People started leaving their
refrigerators in
their backyards. A collaborative effort began between three American corporations, Frigidaire, General Motors and DuPont to search
for a less
dangerous method of refrigeration.

In 1928, Thomas Midgley, Jr. aided by Charles Franklin Kettering invented a "miracle compound" called Freon. Freon represents
several different
chlorofluorocarbons, or CFCs, which are used in commerce and industry. The CFCs are a group of aliphatic organic compounds
containing the elements
carbon and fluorine, and, in many cases, other halogens (especially chlorine) and hydrogen. Freons are colorless, odorless,
nonflammable, noncorrosive
gases or liquids.

Side Note: Charles Franklin Kettering invented the first electric automobile ignition system. He was also the vice-president of the
General Motors
Research Corporation from 1920 to 1948. General Motors' scientist, Thomas Midgley invented leaded (ethyl) gasoline.

Thomas Midgley was chosen by Charles Franklin Kettering to head the research into the new refrigerants. Frigidaire was issued the
first patent,
US#1,886,339, for the formula for CFCs on December 31, 1928.

In 1930, General Motors and DuPont formed the Kinetic Chemical Company to produce Freon. By 1935, Frigidaire and its competitors had
sold 8 million
new refrigerators in the United States using Freon made by the Kinetic Chemical Company. In 1932, the Carrier Engineering
Corporation used Freon in
the world's first self-contained home air conditioning unit, called an "Atmospheric Cabinet".

Side Note: The trade name Freon R is a registered trademark belonging to E.I. du Pont de Nemours & Company (DuPont).

Because Freon is non-toxic, it eliminated the danger posed by refrigerator leaks. In just a few years, compressor refrigerators
using Freon would
become the standard for almost all home kitchens. In 1930, Thomas Midgley held a demonstration of the physical properties of Freon
for the American
Chemical Society by inhaling a lung-full of the new wonder gas and breathing it out onto a candle flame, which was extinguished,
thus showing the
gas's non-toxicity and non-flammable properties. Only decades later did people realize that such chlorofluorocarbons endangered the
ozone layer of the
entire planet.

Side Note: CFCs, or Freon, are now infamous for greatly adding to the depletion of the earth's ozone shield.


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The R-12 freon was phased out first because of the o3 depletion. Fact, I was there for that.
Halon was pulled from sale for the same reason. This was voluntary, and its patent's had not expired.

My personal belief about propane/butane blends and the reluctance for industrial backing is the fear of lawsuits. Just one or two
accidents where
someone is maimed and instant class action. Look at the GM ignition lock debacle. Who is willing to put their business at risk when
a 100% safe
alternative exists. As a GMC owner and you charge your rig with an alternative coolant lets say your risk of fire is 0.000001%. As a
repair outlet
lets say you recharge 4 cars a day, 260 days a year. Your risk is 0.001%. You are a distributor and have 100 dealers, your risk is
real.

The comment about plastic fuel systems is next. The fuel is a liquid and will burn, the vapor is what is explosive. I had the low
pressure hose blow
on my 1977 Corvette and lost all the R-12 to engine compartment in 1978, the hose was too close to the exhaust manifold. If the hose
had failed with
propane/butane, who knows.

Lastly DuPont does not have a dog in this hunt anymore. The freon business, TiO2, and Corian group is for sale or sold.

Lastly if you work with R-12, R-22 refrigerants and use a propane or mapp torch, be very cautious about thermal decomposition of the
product, as
indicated by the change in the flame color. The by product is phosgene. R134 will decompose to hydrofluoric acid. The IDLH for
these byproducts is
very low.


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Free Dictionary dot com paste begin

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Libel and Slander

Two torts that involve the communication of false information about a person, a group, or an entity such as a corporation. Libel is
any Defamation
that can be seen, such as a writing, printing, effigy, movie, or statue. Slander is any defamation that is spoken and heard.

Collectively known as defamation, libel and slander are civil wrongs that harm a reputation; decrease respect, regard, or
confidence; or induce
disparaging, hostile, or disagreeable opinions or feelings against an individual or entity. The injury to one's good name or
reputation is affected
through written or spoken words or visual images. The laws governing these torts are identical.

To recover in a libel or slander suit, the plaintiff must show evidence of four elements: that the defendant conveyed a defamatory
message; that the
material was published, meaning that it was conveyed to someone other than the plaintiff; that the plaintiff could be identified as
the person
referred to in the defamatory material; and that the plaintiff suffered some injury to his or her reputation as a result of the
communication.

To prove that the material was defamatory, the plaintiff must show that at least one other person who saw or heard it understood it
as having
defamatory meaning. It is necessary to show not that all who heard or read the statement understood it to be defamatory, but only
that one person
other than the plaintiff did so. Therefore, even if the defendant contends that the communication was a joke, if one person other
than the plaintiff
took it seriously, the communication is considered defamatory.

Defamatory matter is published when it is communicated to someone other than the plaintiff. This can be done in several different
ways. The defendant
might loudly accuse the plaintiff of something in a public place where others are present, or make defamatory statements about the
plaintiff in a
newsletter or an on-line bulletin board. The defamation need not be printed or distributed. However, if the defendant does not
intend it to be
conveyed to anyone other than the plaintiff, and conveys it in a manner that ordinarily would prevent others from seeing or hearing
it, the
requirement of publication has not been satisfied even if a third party inadvertently overhears or witnesses the
communication.Liability for
republication of a defamatory statement is the same as for original publication, provided that the defendant had knowledge of the
contents of the
statement. Thus, newspapers, magazines, and broadcasters are liable for republication of libel or slander because they have
editorial control over
their communications. On the other hand, bookstores, libraries, and other distributors of material are liable for republication only
if they know, or
had reason to know, that the statement is defamatory. Common carriers such as telephone companies are not liable for defamatory
material that they
convey, even if they know that it is defamatory, unless they know, or have reason to know, that the sender does not have a privilege
to communicate
the material. Suppliers of communications equipment are never liable for defamatory material that is transmitted through the
equipment they provide.

In general, there are four defenses to libel or slander: truth, consent, accident, and privilege. The fact that the allegedly
defamatory communication
is essentially true is usually an absolute defense; the defendant need not verify every detail of the communication, as long as its
substance can be
established. If the plaintiff consented to publication of the defamatory material, recovery is barred. Accidental publication of a
defamatory
statement does not constitute publication. Privilege confers Immunity on a small number of defendants who are directly involved in
the furtherance of
the public's business--for example, attorneys, judges, jurors, and witnesses whose statements are protected on public policy
grounds.

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--
1977 Eleganza II
Ogden NY
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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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