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Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 [message #163608 is a reply to message #163589]

Tue, 20 March 2012 08:09

Ken Henderson

Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA

Karma:

Senior Member

Adrien,

You, like most, IMHO, misunderstand the term "ballooning the TC". I
struggled with the concept for a long time myself until I came to realize
that the only way "ballooning" can be considered a problem is to think of a
flying balloon, NOT a static one:

The pressure inside a torque converter does indeed cause its housing to
expand like a balloon. But that's a very small amount -- no where near
enough to cause the problems I, and so many others, have experienced. It's
probably only a few thousandths, and the TC should have about 0.125" free
play fore & aft -- as mine does.

Where the axial pressure on the crankshaft comes from is the different
areas of the front and back of the TC -- that is, the area of the opening
in the TC hub. According to numbers I've found recently, that amounts to
about 2 square inches -- about what I'd have guessed at a glance.

If we assume that the transmission pumps 100 psi ATF into the torque
converter, it matters not what the area of the front of the TC is, so call
it X. The forward force will be 100X. But that force will be balanced by
the rearward force of 100X-2. So only the 2 is left to worry about -- that
means 200 lbf forward force on the crankshaft through the flex plate.
According to one reference, the Chevy 454 is rated for only 210 lbf
forward crankshaft force -- the 455 and 500 are probably about the same.
Thus the cautions about not creating conditions that cause excessive
transmission pressure.

Both Manny and Bill Bramlett told me of pressure checks they've run and I
considered doing them myself as soon as I reassembled my engine. But after
finding the distorted flex plate and other symptoms, I thought I'd found my
problem. Of course, I hadn't, so now I'll have to do those tests because I
can think of NO reason, other than excessive ATF pressure, for the second
thrust bearing failure.

Ken H.

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 12:17 AM, Adrien Genesoto wrote:

> ...
> I wonder how much axial expansion a TC does per lbs of oil pressure. How
> much pressure would be required to balloon the TC?
>
> If the TC has internal problems that normal internal pressures cause it to
> expand (balloon) picking up the axial free play plus (?). That could put
> pressure on the thrust bearing.
>
> I wonder if oil pressure built up between the TC and the oil pump, may be
> thrusting the TC forward. Just thinking out loud.
>
> If the thrust bearing is worn on the rear side (flex plate end side), I
> think it would make the TC a strong candidate to consider.
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach

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		[GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Mon, 12 March 2012 21:11
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Dennis S on Mon, 12 March 2012 21:51
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: jhbridges on Tue, 13 March 2012 07:44
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Kosier on Mon, 12 March 2012 22:05
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: sgltrac on Mon, 12 March 2012 23:42
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: ljdavick on Mon, 12 March 2012 23:51
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Matt Colie on Tue, 13 March 2012 06:55
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Tue, 13 March 2012 07:08
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: jhbridges on Tue, 13 March 2012 08:02
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Larry on Tue, 13 March 2012 09:23
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Tue, 13 March 2012 12:05
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Larry on Tue, 13 March 2012 12:58
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Tue, 13 March 2012 18:15
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Larry on Tue, 13 March 2012 18:58
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: jhbridges on Tue, 13 March 2012 19:14
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Tue, 13 March 2012 19:34
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: jimk on Wed, 14 March 2012 01:23
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Wed, 14 March 2012 07:28
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Wed, 14 March 2012 21:29
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: jimk on Thu, 15 March 2012 01:22
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: USAussie on Thu, 15 March 2012 08:43
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: k2gkk on Thu, 15 March 2012 11:53
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Thu, 15 March 2012 21:15
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Steve L. Clevenger on Fri, 16 March 2012 00:15
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: jimk on Fri, 16 March 2012 01:30
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: USAussie on Fri, 16 March 2012 10:09
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: ljdavick on Fri, 16 March 2012 01:37
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: jhbridges on Thu, 15 March 2012 06:04
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Larry on Fri, 16 March 2012 07:54
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Fri, 16 March 2012 08:14
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Burton on Sat, 17 March 2012 18:46
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Bob de Kruyff on Sat, 17 March 2012 19:24
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Burton on Sat, 17 March 2012 19:31
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Matt Colie on Sun, 18 March 2012 08:55
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Sun, 18 March 2012 20:31
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Bob de Kruyff on Sun, 18 March 2012 20:51
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Kosier on Sun, 18 March 2012 21:16
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: midlf on Sun, 18 March 2012 22:09
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: USAussie on Sun, 18 March 2012 22:04
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: James Hupy on Sun, 18 March 2012 22:27
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Marsh Wilkes on Sun, 18 March 2012 22:18
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Burton on Sun, 18 March 2012 23:35
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: ljdavick on Mon, 19 March 2012 01:05
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: USAussie on Mon, 19 March 2012 06:54
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: jhbridges on Mon, 19 March 2012 06:50
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: USAussie on Mon, 19 March 2012 07:05
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: jhbridges on Mon, 19 March 2012 07:22
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: James Hupy on Mon, 19 March 2012 10:01
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Steven Ferguson on Tue, 20 March 2012 07:16
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Tue, 20 March 2012 08:54
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Bob de Kruyff on Tue, 20 March 2012 11:38
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Tue, 20 March 2012 12:29
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: GMC Cruse on Sat, 24 March 2012 11:09
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Dennis S on Sat, 24 March 2012 15:32
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Sat, 24 March 2012 21:09
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Dennis S on Sat, 24 March 2012 22:45
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Steven Ferguson on Sun, 25 March 2012 07:00
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Sat, 24 March 2012 20:19
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Matt Colie on Mon, 19 March 2012 08:02
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Bob de Kruyff on Mon, 19 March 2012 09:56
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Carl S. on Mon, 19 March 2012 13:08
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: George Beckman on Sat, 24 March 2012 18:05
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Dolph Santorine on Sat, 24 March 2012 18:25
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Sat, 24 March 2012 21:21
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Sat, 24 March 2012 21:17
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: GMC_LES on Mon, 26 March 2012 20:55
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: GMC_LES on Tue, 27 March 2012 07:37
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Tue, 27 March 2012 14:12
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Mr ERFisher on Tue, 27 March 2012 14:14
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Tue, 27 March 2012 14:21
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: jhbridges on Tue, 27 March 2012 19:34
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Tue, 27 March 2012 21:20
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Steven Ferguson on Wed, 28 March 2012 07:48
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Thu, 29 March 2012 18:05
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: jhbridges on Wed, 28 March 2012 08:00
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Thu, 29 March 2012 18:12
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Sat, 31 March 2012 18:06
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: shawnee on Sat, 31 March 2012 20:11
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Sat, 31 March 2012 20:19
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: GMC_LES on Mon, 02 April 2012 18:28
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Dennis S on Mon, 02 April 2012 18:43
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Mon, 02 April 2012 18:54
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: roy1 on Tue, 03 April 2012 11:15
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Mon, 02 April 2012 18:51
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Carleton Douglas[1] on Tue, 03 April 2012 08:11
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Tue, 03 April 2012 19:18
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Larry on Tue, 03 April 2012 16:14
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Tue, 03 April 2012 19:36
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: GMC_LES on Wed, 04 April 2012 16:34
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Sat, 17 March 2012 19:40
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: ljdavick on Sat, 17 March 2012 20:15
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Sun, 18 March 2012 07:49
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Kosier on Sat, 17 March 2012 20:25
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Sun, 18 March 2012 07:44
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: ljdavick on Sun, 18 March 2012 03:44
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Sun, 18 March 2012 07:42
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Fri, 16 March 2012 20:39
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: WD0AFQ on Fri, 16 March 2012 22:33
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: George Beckman on Sat, 17 March 2012 00:41
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Sat, 17 March 2012 03:32
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: James Hupy on Sat, 17 March 2012 10:43
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Sat, 17 March 2012 18:25
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ernest Dankert on Sat, 17 March 2012 22:48
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: roy1 on Mon, 19 March 2012 11:12
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Dennis S on Mon, 19 March 2012 11:30
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ed Jarmul on Mon, 19 March 2012 11:45
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Mon, 19 March 2012 14:39
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: jaholland on Mon, 19 March 2012 18:28
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Adrien G. on Mon, 19 March 2012 23:17
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Tue, 20 March 2012 08:09
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Bob de Kruyff on Wed, 28 March 2012 09:46
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Wed, 28 March 2012 13:51
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Matt Colie on Wed, 28 March 2012 19:58
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: klassic kampers on Wed, 28 March 2012 20:19
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Bob de Kruyff on Wed, 28 March 2012 22:10
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: rssbob on Wed, 28 March 2012 22:14
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Bob de Kruyff on Wed, 28 March 2012 22:37
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Steve L. Clevenger on Mon, 19 March 2012 23:36
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Richard Brown on Wed, 28 March 2012 01:48
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Thu, 29 March 2012 18:03
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: kingd on Sat, 31 March 2012 20:08
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Richard Brown on Mon, 02 April 2012 20:21
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Mon, 02 April 2012 20:42
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: JohnL455 on Tue, 03 April 2012 19:17
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Bob de Kruyff on Tue, 03 April 2012 22:31
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Richard Brown on Tue, 03 April 2012 23:36
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: JohnL455 on Wed, 04 April 2012 09:24
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Bob de Kruyff on Wed, 04 April 2012 10:03
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Matt Colie on Wed, 04 April 2012 15:38
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: k2gkk on Wed, 04 April 2012 16:00
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Bob de Kruyff on Wed, 04 April 2012 17:20
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: jhbridges on Wed, 04 April 2012 19:06
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: JohnL455 on Wed, 04 April 2012 17:28
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Matt Colie on Thu, 05 April 2012 09:16
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: g.winger on Wed, 04 April 2012 19:42
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Kosier on Wed, 04 April 2012 20:33
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Wed, 04 April 2012 21:20
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: jhbridges on Thu, 05 April 2012 05:26
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Thu, 05 April 2012 08:21
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Dan W on Thu, 05 April 2012 09:08
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Bob de Kruyff on Thu, 05 April 2012 12:51
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: jhbridges on Fri, 06 April 2012 06:52
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Steven Ferguson on Thu, 05 April 2012 07:09
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Thu, 05 April 2012 08:16
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: jhbridges on Fri, 06 April 2012 06:47
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Steven Ferguson on Fri, 06 April 2012 07:45
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Fri, 06 April 2012 07:56
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Richard Brown on Thu, 05 April 2012 03:47
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Thu, 05 April 2012 08:10
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: g.winger on Thu, 05 April 2012 05:19
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: GMC_LES on Thu, 05 April 2012 07:45
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Thu, 05 April 2012 08:27
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Kosier on Thu, 05 April 2012 21:42
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: John Heslinga on Thu, 05 April 2012 13:19
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Thu, 05 April 2012 22:16
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Marsh Wilkes on Fri, 06 April 2012 08:06
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Ken Henderson on Fri, 06 April 2012 08:19
		Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 By: Marsh Wilkes on Fri, 06 April 2012 09:05

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