Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » LP Leak
| LP Leak [message #99997] |
Wed, 15 September 2010 23:57  |
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WD0AFQ
Messages: 7111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Dexter, Mo.
Karma: 207
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Senior Member |
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I have soaped everything to death and get no bubbles. The tank is almost completely empty. I can just walk by the coach and smell lp at the rear on passenger side. Main valve is closed.
I am hoping someone can help me at Du Quoin. Should I put some gas in before I come to the convention or leave it almost empty? Matt, please look for that super duper lp sniffer and bring it. I have got to get this stopped before we head to Arizona.
Dan
3 In Stainless Exhaust Headers
One Ton All Discs/Reaction Arm
355 FD/Quad Bag/Alum Radiator Manny Tran/New eng.
Holley EFI/10 Tire Air Monitoring System
Solarized Coach/Upgraded Windows
Satelite TV/On Demand Hot Water/3Way Refer
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| Re: LP Leak [message #99998 is a reply to message #99997] |
Thu, 16 September 2010 00:33  |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| WD0AFQ wrote on Wed, 15 September 2010 21:57 |
I have soaped everything to death and get no bubbles. The tank is almost completely empty. I can just walk by the coach and smell lp at the rear on passenger side. Main valve is closed.
I am hoping someone can help me at Du Quoin. Should I put some gas in before I come to the convention or leave it almost empty? Matt, please look for that super duper lp sniffer and bring it. I have got to get this stopped before we head to Arizona.
Dan
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Dan,
Strong smell with an almost empty tank is quite common, in fact it is one way I know when the tank on my trailer is about ready to kick over to the other one. Has something to do with concentration of odorant in tanks, especially older ones which have been filled and refilled a lot. This is true even with no leaks.. and that does not make sense, but I think others will confirm this.
I know this sounds strange, but if you fill the tank it may go away, especially possible if you have soaped all the connections and the shut off valve stem area, as well as the fill valve.
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Leak [message #100006 is a reply to message #99998] |
Thu, 16 September 2010 07:51 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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Didn't somebody recently say that the stink stuff
(mercaptan) stays behind and will eventually get
stronger with every refill? How about simply
opening up the tank (where no chance of spark is
possible) and fully empty it and then start over?
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ Mac Macdonald ~
~ Hamcall K2GKK ~
~ Oklahoma City ~
~~ "Money Pit" ~~
~ '76 ex - P.B. ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
----------------------------------------
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: profmail@wildblue.net
> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 00:33:52 -0500
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] LP Leak
>
>
>
> WD0AFQ wrote on Wed, 15 September 2010 21:57
> > I have soaped everything to death and get no bubbles. The tank is almost completely empty. I can just walk by the coach and smell lp at the rear on passenger side. Main valve is closed.
> > I am hoping someone can help me at Du Quoin. Should I put some gas in before I come to the convention or leave it almost empty? Matt, please look for that super duper lp sniffer and bring it. I have got to get this stopped before we head to Arizona.
> > Dan
>
>
>
> Dan,
>
> Strong smell with an almost empty tank is quite common, in fact it is one way I know when the tank on my trailer is about ready to kick over to the other one. Has something to do with concentration of odorant in tanks, especially older ones which have been filled and refilled a lot. This is true even with no leaks.. and that does not make sense, but I think others will confirm this.
>
> I know this sounds strange, but if you fill the tank it may go away, especially possible if you have soaped all the connections and the shut off valve stem area, as well as the fill valve.
>
> --
> Rob Allen
> former owner of '76 x-PB
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Leak [message #100016 is a reply to message #100014] |
Thu, 16 September 2010 09:19 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Dan,
I had an SOB that has a leak, it was where the fill valve screwed into the tank. I brought it to an 'experienced' LP repair shop who charged me $$$ and didn't fix it.
I finally found it myself, I knew it HAD to be by the filler, the smell was strongest there. I spent a lot of time soaping up that valve! So I emptied the tank, resealed it and everything was good.
to empty the tank ( which I had just filled ) I just cracked the bleeder on a breezy day and told the neighbor not to worry about a propane smell!
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Leak [message #100023 is a reply to message #99998] |
Thu, 16 September 2010 11:58 |
mlincoln
Messages: 107
Registered: August 2006
Location: Salt Lake City
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I think that the conclusion "...even with no leaks." cannot be correct. Humans smell molecules suspended in the ambient air, and so at least some molecules of odorant must be leaking from the inside of the tank to the outside. That isn't happening through the impervious, intact metal wall of the tank; it must be from a leak in a valve tap, hose, or fitting. Since mercaptopurine is so very odiferous, it might be a very small leak, one that would be unlikely to be obvious with a soap bubble test.
Mike Lincoln
1978 Coachman CK Royale
On Sep 16, 2010, at 1:33 AM, Rob Allen wrote:
>
>
> WD0AFQ wrote on Wed, 15 September 2010 21:57
>> I have soaped everything to death and get no bubbles. The tank is almost completely empty. I can just walk by the coach and smell lp at the rear on passenger side. Main valve is closed.
>> I am hoping someone can help me at Du Quoin. Should I put some gas in before I come to the convention or leave it almost empty? Matt, please look for that super duper lp sniffer and bring it. I have got to get this stopped before we head to Arizona.
>> Dan
>
>
>
> Dan,
>
> Strong smell with an almost empty tank is quite common, in fact it is one way I know when the tank on my trailer is about ready to kick over to the other one. Has something to do with concentration of odorant in tanks, especially older ones which have been filled and refilled a lot. This is true even with no leaks.. and that does not make sense, but I think others will confirm this.
>
> I know this sounds strange, but if you fill the tank it may go away, especially possible if you have soaped all the connections and the shut off valve stem area, as well as the fill valve.
>
> --
> Rob Allen
> former owner of '76 x-PB
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Mike
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Leak [message #100026 is a reply to message #100023] |
Thu, 16 September 2010 12:38 |
tmaki
Messages: 200
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 9/16/2010 9:58 AM, Michael Lincoln wrote:
> I think that the conclusion "...even with no leaks."
> cannot be correct. Humans smell molecules suspended in
> the ambient air, and so at least some molecules of
> odorant must be leaking from the inside of the tank to
> the outside.
But, the odorant is quite tenacious in terms of its
"sticking" to other materials. Anyone who has ever been
around propane fittings that have seen long-time service
know that they "stink" for a long time after being taken out
of service. I have fittings and valves that I took off when
I replaced them with new components 10 years ago that
"stink" to high heaven. There is no possibility of propane
gas presence where they are stored.
The molecules of the odorant continue of off-gas (so to
speak) until there are none left. All components exposed to
propane containing odorant - and that includes components
with surfaces exposed to the atmosphere, not just the
interior of tanks and delivery plumbing - will have their
surfaces "contaminated" with the propane/odorant mixture.
When the vehicle (propane) evaporates, the odorant molecules
stay behind.
Chop up an onion. Wash hands with water. Onion juice is
dissolved away. Smell fingers. Still smell like onions? Same
deal.
I wouldn't rule out the possibility of mild phantosmia in
the case of persons who might be hyper-sensitive to even a
few molecules of a substance.
"Phantosmia can also be attributed to overactive olfactory
receptor neurons (ORNs) or the loss of inhibitory neurons
brought on by a sinus infection or some other type of head
cold. These overactive ORNs could be activated by some other
input through a fluke in wiring where they would normally
remain inactive or inhibited, so a signal is sent to the
olfactory bulb when no stimulus is present. The inhibitory
neurons are also a part of the pathway just described. If
extraneous information that is normally stopped at these
impasses is allowed to continue along the pathway, the brain
will interpret a signal that has no intrinsic value. This
will provide a sensation without a proper stimulus."
Best solution is have the complete system checked by a
certified propane service center. They most likely will have
the tools, technique and experience to both find and correct
items of concern in terms of the propane system in the coach.
Toby Maki
'73 Glacier 230
Riverside, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Leak [message #100028 is a reply to message #100009] |
Thu, 16 September 2010 12:50 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Thu, 16 September 2010 09:08 |
Dan et al,
If Matt can't find the super duper sniffer is the following procedure viable and safe?
1) remove the regulator from the supply valve on the tank
2) open the supply valve to dump whatever LPG is left in the tank
3) connect a small Harbor Freight portable compressor to the supply valve outlet
4) pressurize the tank to ?? psi
5) re-connect the regulator
6) open the supply valve to pressurize the system
7) leak check with bubble soap
Comments?
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Dan Gregg
LP Leak
I have soaped everything to death and get no bubbles. The tank is almost completely empty. I can just walk by the coach and smell lp at the rear on passenger side. Main valve is closed.
I am hoping someone can help me at Du Quoin. Should I put some gas in before I come to the convention or leave it almost empty? Matt, please look for that super duper lp sniffer and bring it. I have got to get this stopped before we head to Arizona.
Dan
|
Rob,
Yes, it is safe, but the tank will have to be purged and refilled or the non-LP in the system will drive Dan bonkers.
Answer to line 4 - - The test pressure for a propane tank is 300 psi. He should stay below that.
Line 5 is only if he is search for a system leak. Dan has said that it does not matter if the tank valve is open or not. That leads one to think it is a tank leak - like the level gauge O-ring.
Dan,
I know right were the instrument is, but it doesn't work and what I can't find the documentation with the schematic so I can fix it. I'll look for it some more today.
Propane is one of those things we used to call a "room temperature vapor pressure" so, with propane in the tank that is about all you will get - ever.
But, if you can get a hold of some oil pumped nitrogen (most common except for medical) and a regulator, you could put some serious pressure in the tank and soap it again. If you have doubts about the soap, find a friend that does gas or refrigeration work. He will know what does work for leak testing.
I'll go look for the file - again....
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Leak [message #100040 is a reply to message #100037] |
Thu, 16 September 2010 16:38 |
Vince Kirkhuff
Messages: 12
Registered: May 2009
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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When I was a kid, I used to work at a service station where I pumped propane. Sometimes after filling a tank, the spring-loaded fill valve wouldn't close all the way, so I was taught to take a screwdriver and stick it in the valve and smack it with my fist to get the valve to seat. It almost always worked and I still have all my fingers. When the tank on my coach got low, I found it was leaking from the filler valve (slow bubbles), so I tried the same trick. I was suprised to find there was not much pressure holding the valve closed... I'm guessing the pressure of the gas helps to keep it closed, because I went and had it filled and the leak stopped. --Vince
--- On Thu, 9/16/10, Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com> wrote:
> From: Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] LP Leak
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Thursday, September 16, 2010, 1:48 PM
>
>
> Whew, this is some stinking stuff. Empty tank and it has
> been nearly 10 minutes spewing out the valve. Draws flies
> like honey.
> Hope I can take the fittings out and reseal them.
> Dan
> --
> Dan & Teri Gregg
>
> http://danandteri.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
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_______________________________________________
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Vince Kirkhuff
1977 Eleganza II
San Luis Obispo, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Leak [message #100117 is a reply to message #100040] |
Fri, 17 September 2010 10:23 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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On Sep 16, 2010, at 5:38 PM, Vince Kirkhuff wrote:
> When I was a kid, I used to work at a service station where I pumped propane. Sometimes after filling a tank, the spring-loaded fill valve wouldn't close all the way, so I was taught to take a screwdriver and stick it in the valve and smack it with my fist to get the valve to seat. It almost always worked and I still have all my fingers. When the tank on my coach got low, I found it was leaking from the filler valve (slow bubbles), so I tried the same trick. I was suprised to find there was not much pressure holding the valve closed... I'm guessing the pressure of the gas helps to keep it closed, because I went and had it filled and the leak stopped. --Vince
It is not uncommon for the fill valve to leak a little after filling. Sometimes the cold gas slipping past the seal when they take off the fill hose will cause a little bit of ice to form under the seal which cocks the seal and then it sticks a little.
After filling I take a hammer handle that I keep in the compartment and strike the end of the fill connector. This will jar it and seal the opening. DON'T use a steel hammer as it might spark and you could have a fire.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Leak [message #100172 is a reply to message #100026] |
Fri, 17 September 2010 21:22 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| tmaki wrote on Thu, 16 September 2010 12:38 |
On 9/16/2010 9:58 AM, Michael Lincoln wrote:
> I think that the conclusion "...even with no leaks."
> cannot be correct. Humans smell molecules suspended in
> the ambient air, and so at least some molecules of
> odorant must be leaking from the inside of the tank to
> the outside.
But, the odorant is quite tenacious in terms of its
"sticking" to other materials. Anyone who has ever been
around propane fittings that have seen long-time service
know that they "stink" for a long time after being taken out
of service. I have fittings and valves that I took off when
I replaced them with new components 10 years ago that
"stink" to high heaven. There is no possibility of propane
gas presence where they are stored.
The molecules of the odorant continue of off-gas (so to
speak) until there are none left. All components exposed to
propane containing odorant - and that includes components
with surfaces exposed to the atmosphere, not just the
interior of tanks and delivery plumbing - will have their
surfaces "contaminated" with the propane/odorant mixture.
When the vehicle (propane) evaporates, the odorant molecules
stay behind.
Chop up an onion. Wash hands with water. Onion juice is
dissolved away. Smell fingers. Still smell like onions? Same
deal.
I wouldn't rule out the possibility of mild phantosmia in
the case of persons who might be hyper-sensitive to even a
few molecules of a substance.
"Phantosmia can also be attributed to overactive olfactory
receptor neurons (ORNs) or the loss of inhibitory neurons
brought on by a sinus infection or some other type of head
cold. These overactive ORNs could be activated by some other
input through a fluke in wiring where they would normally
remain inactive or inhibited, so a signal is sent to the
olfactory bulb when no stimulus is present. The inhibitory
neurons are also a part of the pathway just described. If
extraneous information that is normally stopped at these
impasses is allowed to continue along the pathway, the brain
will interpret a signal that has no intrinsic value. This
will provide a sensation without a proper stimulus."
Best solution is have the complete system checked by a
certified propane service center. They most likely will have
the tools, technique and experience to both find and correct
items of concern in terms of the propane system in the coach.
Toby Maki
'73 Glacier 230
Riverside, CA
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I wish I understood what he is saying.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Leak [message #100188 is a reply to message #100172] |
Fri, 17 September 2010 22:56 |
Wander Inn
Messages: 100
Registered: January 2010
Location: Phoenix Az.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Dan
The best way to test for leaks is put dish soap in a
cup and use a paint brush to soap fittings. This will
find small leaks.
Mike
Mike & Chris Hughes
1977 Kingsley
Phoenix, Az.
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| Re: LP Leak [message #100195 is a reply to message #99997] |
Sat, 18 September 2010 00:00 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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There is a vent in the regulator, isn't there? LP tanks get a water buildup over time, and that odorant tends to stink up that water. Temperature changes make the tank breath in and out through the vent.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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