| Transmode Construcion... [message #99223] |
Fri, 10 September 2010 08:51  |
Benny Hill
Messages: 18
Registered: August 2010
Karma: 0
|
Junior Member |
|
|
When a transmode was shipped to an outfitter like Coachman what did they get?
Were the side windows and roof top accesories installed by GM or did Coachman cut in the window holes from a slab side transmode?
My reason for asking is, that if you look down the sides of my coach the aluminum skin around the window openings is really wavy and crude. Also my vertical aluminum joints have become unglued on both sides just above the belt line molding on both sides about 8" in length. How many others have seen this with a 1976 or newer coach?
I was thinking that the reason this aluminum skin has become unglued was a result of sloppy Coachman outfitting. I really do not want to gut the inside walls to investigate if it is only a cosmetic problem.
A GMC expert told me how to re-glue the aluminum skin but I am still concerned about what may be going on inside the wall causing all of this.
Benny Hill
Shopping for a GMC
Florida
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Transmode Construcion... [message #99275 is a reply to message #99233] |
Fri, 10 September 2010 15:22  |
bumpersticker
Messages: 60
Registered: February 2004
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Karma: 0
|
Member |
|
|
Benny:
I had a similar problem with my 78 Birchaven rear bath.
Due to a water leak I had to remove the panels in the bath and the wall to the bath. I discovered that Avion had re-configured the windows on the left side of the coach. They moved the window from the rear where the bath would be, to the center of the coach.
In the process they had to change the alumumnum panels. In the process they didn't properly clean and prepare the surfaces for the bonding process and the bond failed.
I was able to remove the old adhesive using scrapers and knife blades without removing the panel. I cleaned the surfaces using some freon and then applied the same Scotch Weld adhesive that GM used to assemble the coaches. (Scotch Weld Structural Adhesive 2216/BA gray).
I hope this helps, if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.
Bob Cook
78 Birchaven
75 Avion (In work)
Redondo Beach, CA
|
|
|
|
| Re: Transmode Construcion... [message #99278 is a reply to message #99223] |
Fri, 10 September 2010 15:35 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| Benny Hill wrote on Fri, 10 September 2010 08:51 |
When a transmode was shipped to an outfitter like Coachman what did they get?
|
Benny - I have a gutted transmode, early '75. If you want pictures of the interior I can take some for you. My transmode has no side windows but it is clearly visible in the framing where GMC intended the windows to be.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
|
|
|
|
| Re: Transmode Construction... [message #99286 is a reply to message #99223] |
Fri, 10 September 2010 16:52 |
Benny Hill
Messages: 18
Registered: August 2010
Karma: 0
|
Junior Member |
|
|
That would explain my problem. If coachman did such a thing to your 78' Birch rear bath then they must have done it to mine as well.
My curb side rear aluminum panel is the one delaminating. That would be the panel that Coachman would have put on to eliminate the aft window to put in the shower. The same corresponding seam on driver's side is riveted. I wonder if that panel was put on by Coachman as well. The rivets on the driver's side are painted inside the original stripes so they have been there since new. I can only imagine the hack job they did behind that pretty Birch paneling.
You would think they would have ordered them from GM with the propper window configuration. Seems like alot of extra work to do it after the fact.
I have only looked at 25 GMC's before this one and I never saw this delamination of joints on the later years. The early ones I know had glue problems hence the use of rivets.
Has anyone else gutted a Birchaven and witnessed what Coachman did to relocate window openings?
Benny Hill
Shopping for a GMC
Florida
|
|
|
|
| Re: Transmode Construcion... [message #99287 is a reply to message #99233] |
Fri, 10 September 2010 16:55 |
bryant374
Messages: 563
Registered: May 2004
Location: Pleasant Valley, NY 12569
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Benny,
Our '78 Royale center kitchen is not like you describe. I may be mistaken, but I believe the windows were put in by GM and the upfitters just did the interiors, along with wiring, plumbing, etc. Could be wrong, JMHO. Bill Bryant and others should know for sure.
John
>
>
John, I believe you are probably correct. The basic Transmode would have no windows (except for cab area). An upfitter could order the Transmode with their specified window locations as I suspect a high volume upfitter like Coachmen would have done. I have seen Transmodes upfitted by others (not Coachmen) that appear to have some windows by GMC and others (usually "non standard" locations) done by the upfitter.
And now a question. Comparing dealer price sheets & glove box stickers, which supposedly list all options on your coach, I might expect to see all window options (installed by GMC) listed on Transmode GB stickers. What I see are options APC & APD which are the door & galley opening windows w/screen listed quite often. If those of you with a Transmode would check your glove box sticker, check to see if you have option APQ or APR which is "side sash & glass". I rarely/never see this option listed.
If GMC shipped a Transmode with side windows, I would expect this option to be listed.
Appreciate any feedback.
As a standard, there is no standard.
Bill Bryant
PO 1976~PB (owned 34 years)
1914 Ford (owned 70 years)
1965 Corvette (owned 39 years)
GMC Motorhome History
|
|
|
|
| Re: Transmode Construcion... [message #99288 is a reply to message #99278] |
Fri, 10 September 2010 16:56 |
Benny Hill
Messages: 18
Registered: August 2010
Karma: 0
|
Junior Member |
|
|
| midlf wrote on Fri, 10 September 2010 16:35 |
| Benny Hill wrote on Fri, 10 September 2010 08:51 |
When a transmode was shipped to an outfitter like Coachman what did they get?
|
Benny - I have a gutted transmode, early '75. If you want pictures of the interior I can take some for you. My transmode has no side windows but it is clearly visible in the framing where GMC intended the windows to be.
|
If you have pictures of the original window frame configuration of a virgin transmode that would be very interesting to see where they were intended to go.
Benny Hill
Shopping for a GMC
Florida
|
|
|
|
| Re: Transmode Construction... [message #99296 is a reply to message #99286] |
Fri, 10 September 2010 18:25 |
bumpersticker
Messages: 60
Registered: February 2004
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Karma: 0
|
Member |
|
|
Benny:
I'm speculating but I think Coachman ordered this configuration for side bath coaches. When the orders didn't materialize they simply changed the windows and built rear baths.
Bob Cook
78 Birchaven
75 Avion (In work)
Redondo Beach, CA
|
|
|
|
| Re: Transmode Construcion... [message #99300 is a reply to message #99223] |
Fri, 10 September 2010 18:57 |
Benny Hill
Messages: 18
Registered: August 2010
Karma: 0
|
Junior Member |
|
|
I think you might be right Bob on what Coachman did. I am going to just have to inject the propper adhesive into the open joint and prop a brace up against the joint till the glue sets up. It will keep it from getting worse and water from getting in.
It just bothers me when you look down the side of the coach and see the waves in the panel. I will just have to put my blinders on...
I get the impression that the GMC's built by GM from start to finish had better quality control and less Mickey Mousing going on.
My brother is getting this Birchaven anyway. He is blind as a bat and will not notice!
Benny Hill
Shopping for a GMC
Florida
|
|
|
|
| Re: Transmode Construcion... [message #99304 is a reply to message #99300] |
Fri, 10 September 2010 19:44 |
 |
mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| Benny Hill wrote on Fri, 10 September 2010 16:57 |
I think you might be right Bob on what Coachman did. I am going to just have to inject the propper adhesive into the open joint and prop a brace up against the joint till the glue sets up. It will keep it from getting worse and water from getting in. ...
|
My 1978 Rear Bath Birchaven has (had?) delamination on the curb side near the rub-rail and the vertical seams just ahead of the rear wheels. I shot it with sealer/adhesive (3m 5200 ?) and braced it for a couple of days. (Be sure to mask the area before shooting the sealant.) There are a few smaller areas that also need attention... once I strip the silly-cone from the seams.
On windows. I believe transmodes where shipped from GM with and without windows. Most transmodes had at least a few windows. The door window and the curbside front large windows where most common. Yes, even if windows where not installed, the framework of the body did had places that they expected windows to be installed.
On my Birchaven, when Coachman cut the body for the kitchen window, they started to cut the corner too wide... leaving a little less that 1/2 inch saw cut exposed by the window frame.
Coachman used very good materials, but the workmanship looks like they just pulled workers off the street!
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Transmode Construction... [message #99309 is a reply to message #99286] |
Fri, 10 September 2010 20:11 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I completely gutted my Birchaven in '98. From what I saw I suspect that
Coachmen took delivery of transmodes with no windows cut into them. GMC
provided framework for certain standard window and door cutouts, but I don't
think they cut ANY of the holes. In fact, to reduce the size of the right
side window to what they wanted, Coachmen welded in and additional upright,
probably before cutting the hole. Since I wanted a larger window there, I
merely cut out that added strut and the skin covering the hole I wanted.
On my coach, I found that at the right rear, over the Onan, there was
framing for a utilities service door like those on the 26' coaches. I
bought one of those doors and cut the necessary hole in the skin with a
router, aligning it with that OEM framing. When the aluminum fell out,
there was already a little aluminum "striker" welded to the bottom of the
frame for the lock.
I seriously doubt that Coachmen ever added any aluminum skin. Or, for that
matter, that any delamination is due to their cutting holes in the skin.
Ken H.
On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 5:52 PM, Benny Hill <kaikitan@aim.com> wrote:
>
> Has anyone else gutted a Birchaven and witnessed what Coachman did to
> relocate window openings?
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
|
|
|
|
| Re: Transmode Construcion... [message #99312 is a reply to message #99304] |
Fri, 10 September 2010 20:23 |
|
mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Also,
Keep in mind ALL 23 foot coaches made after 1974, where sold as transmodes. I suspect the only windows they had from the factory where the cockpit, door and rear windows. This would include all Birchavens.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
|
|
|
|
| Re: Transmode Construcion... [message #99314 is a reply to message #99304] |
Fri, 10 September 2010 20:32 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Bill is certainly the expert and I think if you have the patience you will find the clues in the body section of the parts manual. You will see several different major body and reinforcement configurations based on Transmode RPO's and years. By all accounts, Coachman was focussed on looks, not quality. I also recall several variations of GMC Transmodes used for instrumentation and telemetry purposes at GM that had various or no window configurations based on need. I'm pretty sure those were production Transmodes.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
|
|
|
|
| Re: Transmode Construcion... [message #99317 is a reply to message #99223] |
Fri, 10 September 2010 20:48 |
Benny Hill
Messages: 18
Registered: August 2010
Karma: 0
|
Junior Member |
|
|
Thanks guys for the info on how Coachman built them. I was worried the delamination was signs of hidden structural problems. Now I know it is just the way they built them.
How did the adhesive hold up on the repair you made to the joint? Does the 3M adhesive act as a water sealer or did you have to caulk the seam after or use any rivets? I assume you did the repair from the outside and not from the inside of a stripped interior?
Benny Hill
Shopping for a GMC
Florida
|
|
|
|
| Re: Transmode Construcion... [message #99330 is a reply to message #99317] |
Sat, 11 September 2010 00:29 |
bumpersticker
Messages: 60
Registered: February 2004
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Karma: 0
|
Member |
|
|
Benny:
When I removed the interior panels there was no foam sprayed on the areas where the panels were changed. I installed 3" foil backed foam in these areas using foam in-a-can for adhesive.
The Scotch Weld adhesive was applied from both the outside and the inside using syringes. Scotch Weld was the original adhesive used on all the GMC motorhomes.
Bob Cook
78 Birchaven
75 Avion (In work)
Redondo Beach, CA
|
|
|
|
| Re: Transmode Construcion... [message #99343 is a reply to message #99223] |
Sat, 11 September 2010 08:36 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Benny, where are you located? i thought i saw you list Pensacola as your home. if so there are several of us here with coaches and we would like to meet you.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
|
|
|
|
| Re: Transmode Construcion... [message #99460 is a reply to message #99278] |
Sun, 12 September 2010 15:49 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
midlf wrote on Fri, 10 September 2010 15:35
[/quote |
Benny - I have a gutted transmode, early '75. If you want pictures of the interior I can take some for you. My transmode has no side windows but it is clearly visible in the framing where GMC intended the windows to be.
|
I got the pictures posted but haven't finished completing the descriptions. If the comment starts with "xxx" it is not completed.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=35832&title=transmode-interior&cat=5204
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
|
|
|
|
| Re: Transmode Construcion... [message #99468 is a reply to message #99223] |
Sun, 12 September 2010 16:56 |
Benny Hill
Messages: 18
Registered: August 2010
Karma: 0
|
Junior Member |
|
|
Thanks Steve, good pictures of the frame work. I noticed that they built your windowless transmode with no aluminum joints. It looks like one sheet of metal from the driver's window back. Why they did not just do that on the Birchavens seems strange.
I did some digging in the photo archives and saw some really good pictures Ken Henderson took of his gutted Birchaven. The curbside seam that failed and has opened up on mine is just forward of the midship curb side window. In Ken's photos you can clearly see that there is no vertical frame member there what so ever to support the aluminum skin joint just above the belt line.
Assuming his frame is built like mine, No wonder the joint is split. There is nothing to glue the skin to or install rivets in that spot. That explains why when I pushed on the failed skin it was very spongy there.
Now what, just caulk the open seam? I am not gutting the interior otherwise I would add a frame support. Just the way it was built, damn seams...
I need to get pictures to show you guys what I am talking about. Thanks for all you advise and photos. They told me the story before I wasted my time riveting and glueing the skin to nothing but insulation.
Benny Hill
Shopping for a GMC
Florida
|
|
|
|
| Re: Transmode Construcion... [message #99503 is a reply to message #99460] |
Sun, 12 September 2010 21:57 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
[quote title=midlf wrote on Sun, 12 September 2010 15:49]
Ok - I got all the descriptions completed.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
|
|
|
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
